Why is....

gtvlusso

Selling a house so f*cking difficult.....

Agents?
Solicitors?
Difficult Buyers?

We have had an immediate offer from a couple, best and final offer at nearly £20k below asking; even the agent said it was a stupid offer.

I now have another interested party who want to bring a builder and scope out for a loft conversion and adding an extension - she wants planning permission in place before she buys......WTF?! Does she really think I am going to go through the hassle of sorting out her planning permissions based on her plans and risk her pulling out of the sale?

I have no issue with loads of people viewing the place, no issues with people taking a couple of hours to go around everything. No problems with answering question or entertaining builders.....but, bloody hell, we, the general public, are an awkward bunch of f*ckers....

It is a house, it has a realistic minimum value, do you like it? Done!

FoldingJoe

I understand that most properties sell for around 95% of their asking price, so depending on the value of your property, £20k could be around the average reduction!?

rubertoe

I'm so not looking forward to putting my flat on the market... Having only been a buyer in the past and that was stressful enough.

iPete

Put it on eBay.

DonDaddyD

So you got my offer then?

Because when we buy I'm going to be offering/hoping the person accepts £10K - £20k less than the advertised price. There are houses that have been on the market for months pushing years...

With house prices the way they are and the previous 100% mortgage/greed/property market crash/people afraid of negative equity I have no remorse. I want to pay as little as possible for the most I can reasonably get.

Buyers Market.

the_fuggler

House buying and selling is the work of the devil.

Does it really need planning permission or would building regs sign-off be sufficient? It might just be that the second buyer needs to have a chat with building control and the whole will pass.

Not sure about it being a buyers market. It all depends where you are buying and the individual circumstances of the seller.

rjsterry

gtvlusso wrote:

Selling a house so f*cking difficult.....

Agents?
Solicitors?
Difficult Buyers?

We have had an immediate offer from a couple, best and final offer at nearly £20k below asking; even the agent said it was a stupid offer.

I now have another interested party who want to bring a builder and scope out for a loft conversion and adding an extension - she wants planning permission in place before she buys......WTF?! Does she really think I am going to go through the hassle of sorting out her planning permissions based on her plans and risk her pulling out of the sale?

I have no issue with loads of people viewing the place, no issues with people taking a couple of hours to go around everything. No problems with answering question or entertaining builders.....but, bloody hell, we, the general public, are an awkward bunch of f*ckers....

It is a house, it has a realistic minimum value, do you like it? Done!

People behave badly when there's a lot of money involved. Cheeky as the potential buyer was, selling with planning permission can add quite a bit to the value for relatively modest outlay, and with a bit of thought, it doesn't have to be too tailored to one specific buyer. The only issue is that it takes a minimum of 8 weeks to obtain planning permission, from submission of application to decision. Add on the time it'll take someone to produce some drawings and the inevitable delays between you posting the thing and someone at the council logging it on to their system to start the clock, and you are looking at 3 months. The other thing that would be worth looking at is what can be done within Permitted Development. PM me if you want more info on this, or visit http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/

gtvlusso

£20k is way way below - up to £10k is reasonable negotiation for the value of the property, even the Agent agreed and said to us not to accept.

If it is a buyers market, then I will simply rent the place out.....better to keep the asset and at least have the mortgage paid for than lose out on a cr*p deal.....

More rent to my pocket. Another home unattainable for growing families....fair innit?

bompington

While I have sympathy for the OP - anyone who's ever bought or sold a house has some horror story to tell - the fact is that house buying is the only place where most punters are exposed to pure naked market forces. If someone comes in and offers you half your asking price, or wants you to build a conservatory cantilevered off the second floor, or says they'll buy if you promise to dance naked up the high street, then it's all the same - you have to weigh up their offer, accept, negotiate or reject it. In a buyer's market it's the other way round.
I've had the frustration (bear in mind things work a bit differently in Scotland) of offering £1000s over the asking price for the house of my dreams only to have someone else trump it with a higher offer; and also of a buyer who managed to worm out of signing anything binding until the entry date and then cut his offer by £10K. You just have to live with it.
Although in the latter case it was quite satisfying telling him where to get off.

davmaggs

It depends on your location. The recession never happened in SW London prices carried on rising, albeit probably due to inflation destroying the pound.

That being said, as a recent buyer I came across sellers that are unrealistic too. The view that their house is worth more than the one sold nearby seems so prevalent, and they just won't see reason. People have this sense that they just have to get that extra £10k, when if they've owned the house for 10 years they've more than likely had it virtually double in price (and tax free to boot).

If your house is still for sale in SW London after 3 weeks, then it is you, the seller that is the mental case. A house is only worth what people will pay (not offer, that is all hot air).

My tip, use an estate agent that is an old lag (no mini), very local, and gives you a lower estimate that the chains that hire unemployed posh girls.


edits: typos

rjsterry

The Fuggler wrote:

House buying and selling is the work of the devil.

Does it really need planning permission or would building regs sign-off be sufficient? It might just be that the second buyer needs to have a chat with building control and the whole will pass.

Not sure about it being a buyers market. It all depends where you are buying and the individual circumstances of the seller.

Building Regs Approval and Planning Permission are two completely different things, and shouldn't be confused. You'll need the former on all but the most minor building work, and it concerns technical aspects of construction to ensure that the building is safe and habitable. Planning is more to do with controlling how much and what type of development can take place in a given area. There are certain kinds of small-scale development - some domestic extensions and alterations - that don't require planning permission and fall within Permitted Development. It's all on that link I posted earlier.

davmaggs

gtvlusso wrote:

£20k is way way below - up to £10k is reasonable negotiation for the value of the property, even the Agent agreed and said to us not to accept.

If it is a buyers market, then I will simply rent the place out.....better to keep the asset and at least have the mortgage paid for than lose out on a cr*p deal.....

More rent to my pocket. Another home unattainable for growing families....fair innit?

Don't forget the estate agents has their own sales target and game to play. As they get nearer your contract with them ending, then they will change their tune.

I would advise not focusing so much on the absolute price, but more on the buyer's ability to actually pay.

I Was in an outstanding position to buy and could prove it, but had an offer rejected by a fool that just had to get £10k more. He went with a buyer that promised the world, but couldn't actually afford it. The seller wasted 4 months, and spent a mint on bridging loans and so learned an expensive lesson. I now live there.

DonDaddyD

gtvlusso wrote:

If it is a buyers market, then I will simply rent the place out.....better to keep the asset and at least have the mortgage paid for than lose out on a cr*p deal.....

More rent to my pocket. Another home unattainable for growing families....fair innit?

If you can afford to and keeping your current home would substantially add to your wealth at retirement why wouldn't you? It is not your duty or responsiblity to release your property back into the market to benefit growing families. It's the Government's job to encourage the building of more affordable and social housing.

TheStone

davmaggs wrote:

It depends on your location. The recession never happened in SW London prices carried on rising, albeit probably due to inflation destroying the pound.

SW London is crazy at the moment.

Taking the last 6 years, asking prices up 78%
http://www.home.co.uk/guides/asking_pri ... dyear=2012

But sold prices only up 38%
http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_pric ... dyear=2012

essex-commuter

We purchased our property 6 months ago at £40K less than asking price. We had an offer on ours that was £15K under asking price (understandable because it then fell into another stamp duty bracket). Sometimes it just works as long as all parties are satisfied. I was :-)

corriebee1

davmaggs wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I Was in an outstanding position to buy and could prove it, but had an offer rejected by a fool that just had to get £10k more. He went with a buyer that promised the world, but couldn't actually afford it. The seller wasted 4 months, and spent a mint on bridging loans and so learned an expensive lesson. I now live there.

Similar story. Last year, we bought our second buy to let. Made an offer on the property with proof of available funding and offering 4 weeks to completion. We were refused because someone jumped in with a higher offer. 3 months later the agent phones back and says their buyer has pulled out and they'd like to accept our offer. "Sadly" says I, "our offer isn't on the table any more, but I'll pay you £xx (£5,500 less)". They accepted.

Hanging out for the last couple of grand can be worthwhile, but it can also be costly.

asprilla

When I sold mine three months ago the Agent valued it at £20k more than everyone else, but we went with them as they were selling the house we wanted. As a result the offer we accepted was £30k down on the asking price.

The real issue I had was the Agent withholding information about completion dates from all parties when we were exchanging contracts. We only found out after we exchanged that our purchasers could only complete on a date that was outside our mortgage offer period. That caused some stress.

daviesee

There is a lot of money involved.
There is greed involved.

I think that about covers it.

navt

gtvlusso wrote:

Selling a horse so f*cking difficult.....

Agents?
Solicitors?
Difficult Buyers?

Is what I read.

pdw

It's a market. Buyer says what they're prepared to pay. If you're prepared to accept that, house gets sold. If you're not, it doesn't.

You say that the house is worth more than £20k less than asking price. Unfortunately, right now you don't have any buyers that agree with you.

If you think that a buyer is too awkward to be worth dealing with, then don't deal with them.

Subaqua

I am in the process of buying in SW London and buying here is much more difficult than selling. As mentioned above, there is only one reason that SW london property doesn;t sell.... and the answer generally lies with the vendor (or the vendor's expectations that have been soigneured but a seedy EA).

I can confirm that building regs sign-off don't mean sh*t if the building control inspector was a retard.

daniel_b

I always thought the historic figure is 93% of the asking price.

We offered on our furst house, but only about 2.5% under, when we sold that it went for about 93% of the asking price.
Our most recent price did not involve estate agents, thank goodness, and we had no chain, the guy was completely straight with us, told us what he had planned, and what he thought it would then be worth, so we asked what he was willing to sell it for in it's current state - he came up with a figure, we thought it was perfectly fair, and loved the h house and location, so paid the full asking price.

gbsahne001

We bought 2 years ago and my offer was 30k below asking and was accepted. Having lived in it and discovered it's issues, I'm regretting not offering 50k below the asking price!

gtvlusso

So, another 6 viewings this week and someone else coming around with a builder....

I made allot of money on a property in Devon - essentially, I bought what was an apple shed and built a cottage. Initial cost £90k + £25k of work, selling price £330k.

I felt very sad about it as I took away what could have been an affordable house for the younger generation of Devon. There is not much work about down there and allot of it is low paid.

So, I guess I feel guilty!

House prices are what we appear to base our financial lives on. However, this time, the house has not appreciated that much - we have only been in it for 7 years and have spent about £15k on it. We will see that back, but the moving costs are high and we will be barely making on this property - not that we should expect to make. But, we won't have enough to fund a deposit anywhere else without drawing on savings.

So, I could rent the place out and then rent myself in Middlesex. Or sell the place and still rent in Middlesex....

Part of the problem, I guess, is the game playing - I really don't have time for it. 93% of value, as mentioned previously, seems fair. But everyone seems to turn into a wheeler and a dealer when buying a house....like they are all used car dealers or something!

The only winner is the bank, in reality.....it just costs everyone else time and money.

DonDaddyD

GTV,

I think you're expectation is a little unrealistic on this. If you are looking for a quick then you are going to have to parlay with the Del-Boys. If you want 93%+ of the value then you're in for the long game and will have to wait for someone with the readies to come round. That scenario could take months.

If you felt guilty about taking away a home from the next generation (liberal mumbo-jumbo IMO) then accept the £20K less on your current property and sell it to a first time buyer/new family. That way the Universe will be in balance.

Koncordski

As above, and as a few people have pointed out, it's worth what someone wants to pay for it. If it hasn't gone under offer within 2-3 weeks in SW london then it's overpriced.

I sympathise with the stress though. I'm in the middle of a buy and sell transaction on my place which was going great until 24 hours ago. We were all due to exchange on friday and expecting a completion date 7 days afterwards. The bottom of the chain have now said they want 4 weeks between. The Top of the chain have personal reasons and have said the maximum they will accept is two weeks. I'm in the middle and don't care when I move as long as we exchange this week.

The bottom thinks only their problem's matter and ditto at the top. I just want them to sort it out but despite not being in a position to do anything i''m getting called by all the agents in the chain. :roll: :x

vermin

Easy, if you want a certain amount for it and don't want people hassling you by bringing builders around, tell your agent not to listen to offers or those wishing to bring builders. It might take a while for your house to sell, but that's your choice. Most people recognise that the housing market doesn't work that way, and that a price is essentially an opening bid, as it were.

I bought a house 6 years ago with an offer around £125k below the advertised asking price. The seller clearly needed to sell, and I was willing to pay that much. I didn't force them to sell to me, but they needed to sell and mine was the only (or best) offer that came along within their timescale.

bigmat

As a buyer I would offer what I was willing to pay. I looked at houses with an easking price £50k above my budger. I offered my top line - if its not enough, fine, but I don't see why I shouldn't make the offer? The house I eventually bought we paid full asking price. Somebody actually offered £10k over asking price, but we got in first and were better placed to buy so got the deal. That house has gone up in price maybe £75k over the last two and a half years so I'm glad we disn't p*ss about working out what 93% of the asking price was!

MrSweary

Buying a house first time in SW London is horrible. Anything half decent goes in a blink and from our experience some sellers round our way are limiting their top price because they know their places are massively over-valued and banks won’t lend on them.

On top you have the agents such as the one that includes the name of a well known baby eating urban carnivore. Those b**tards marketed a property we had been accepted on and then claimed it was all a coincidence. Caught them red handed but what can one do apart from suing, vandalising their cars, running a vicious online hate campaign, stalking their wives / husbands and sending them a string of threatening and obscene letters?

Recently offered a place near where I live that had only 73 years left on the lease and the seller wasn’t willing to do the necessary or even set things in motion for extending the lease. They were expecting close to full asking price (which was already at the top of what could be expected for that road) and seemed to think they were in a good position!!! Had to let them know that no first time buyer will get a mortgage on a 73 year leasehold and that their property was actually worth about 50k less than they were asking. Also had to let the agent know that they should stop dicking us about and we weren’t born yesterday.

It is crazy and I’m moving out of London in protest. Just need to get my fitness up to pro-cycling standards and invent a time machine so I can manage the commute first.

pdw

93% of value, as mentioned previously, seems fair.

... but it's not 93% of value! It's 93% of asking price which is an arbitrary amount cooked up by a seller and an estate agent, both of whom have an interest in a high valuation.

davis

GTV, you're always writing "allot" when you should write "a lot". E.g. "a lot of money".

There. I've said it. It's been bugging me for ages. /grammarnazi