What emphasis should be attributed to spoke count ?

Raffles

I see wheels frequently for sale with the 20/24 spoke count, and to be honest if I bought same Id be worried. If you do most of your riding on lovely smooth roads and arent excessively heavy then you need fear not, but in my case a fair share of roads that are on my travels are utter crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap. I know if I splashed out on a superlight wheelset with 20/24 spokecount id be picking up said spokes behind me and forever repairing the wheel. The spokecount on my handbuilt wheels are 32/32 and I know it adds weight , but they are strong and (touches wood) Ive not yet had a spoke break despite some real crummy roads. One other personal rule of thumb is im not interested in wheels with bladed spokes for the simple reason if one breaks....ordering a replacement and waiting for it to arrive and all that. Instead I stick with dt spokes which every LBS carries and a fix is minutes work.

So what emphasis do you place on spoke count and how much of a factor is it for you when considering wheels purchases ?

declan1

A friend of mine has Shimano R500s, which are IIRC 20/24. He's had them for 3 years, and hasn't had one spoke break. That's in the Highlands of Scotland with tons of pot-holes and absolutely no maintenance. He's about the same weight as me (67KG).

ShutUpLegs

What size waist are you :?:

bianchimoon

Raffles wrote:

I see wheels frequently for sale with the 20/24 spoke count, and to be honest if I bought same Id be worried. If you do most of your riding on lovely smooth roads and arent excessively heavy then you need fear not, but in my case a fair share of roads that are on my travels are utter crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap. I know if I splashed out on a superlight wheelset with 20/24 spokecount id be picking up said spokes behind me and forever repairing the wheel. The spokecount on my handbuilt wheels are 32/32 and I know it adds weight , but they are strong and (touches wood) Ive not yet had a spoke break despite some real crummy roads. One other personal rule of thumb is im not interested in wheels with bladed spokes for the simple reason if one breaks....ordering a replacement and waiting for it to arrive and all that. Instead I stick with dt spokes which every LBS carries and a fix is minutes work.

So what emphasis do you place on spoke count and how much of a factor is it for you when considering wheels purchases ?

So you've never had any lightweight wheels but have this opinion about them, your comments make no sense whatsoever, if the wheels weren't fit for purpose they wouldn't sell, simple.

Raffles

ShutUpLegs wrote:

What size waist are you :?:

about 35 inches, I wear loose size 36 trousers as they are super comfy whilst 34 is a bit neat.

Raffles

bianchimoon wrote:

Raffles wrote:

I see wheels frequently for sale with the 20/24 spoke count, and to be honest if I bought same Id be worried. If you do most of your riding on lovely smooth roads and arent excessively heavy then you need fear not, but in my case a fair share of roads that are on my travels are utter crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap. I know if I splashed out on a superlight wheelset with 20/24 spokecount id be picking up said spokes behind me and forever repairing the wheel. The spokecount on my handbuilt wheels are 32/32 and I know it adds weight , but they are strong and (touches wood) Ive not yet had a spoke break despite some real crummy roads. One other personal rule of thumb is im not interested in wheels with bladed spokes for the simple reason if one breaks....ordering a replacement and waiting for it to arrive and all that. Instead I stick with dt spokes which every LBS carries and a fix is minutes work.

So what emphasis do you place on spoke count and how much of a factor is it for you when considering wheels purchases ?

So you've never had any lightweight wheels but have this opinion about them, your comments make no sense whatsoever, if the wheels weren't fit for purpose they wouldn't sell, simple.

Ok gotcha.......I just want to gauge how much of a purchasing factor spokecount is on an individual basis.

bianchimoon

If I buy lightweight wheels I don't worry about spoke count I just expect hem to be fit for purpose under the goods for sale act

simon_masterson

Spoke count isn't the only factor. 'Back in the day' wheels with 'low' spoke counts were sneered at by some, but that wasn't because of the spoke count. Once the wheelbuilders proved that it was perfectly possible to build usable wheels with less than 28 spokes, the idea caught on. Pete Matthews' site makes for interesting reading.

However, that's not to say that general opinion should prevail. The road cycling market is driven by the gullible punters who buy what the marketing machine tells them to buy, and a side-effect of this is that a lot of road cyclists seem to consider laughably short service lives as perfectly reasonable. Many people buy extremely light factory wheels but that doesn't mean that they are lasting very long. You have nothing to lose in opting for enough spokes, and using sufficiently durable hubs and rims, for your weight and purpose.

MattC59

I'm 86kg and 6'2", I've got 16 spokes front and rear on my Aeolus wheels. They've been great. I don't find the, harsh with Ultremo ZXs on them and I've not once had an issue with them going out of true. They get ridden on some cr*p roads and have survived an encounter with a mates rear mech (not looking where he was going, braked and swerved to miss it, hit me). The only damage was a bent spoke, the rim was fine.

charlie_potatoes

Raffles wrote:

. One other personal rule of thumb is im not interested in wheels with bladed spokes for the simple reason if one breaks....ordering a replacement and waiting for it to arrive and all that. Instead I stick with dt spokes which every LBS carries and a fix is minutes work.
?

Why not just order a couple in and keep them 'in stock' yourself?

navrig

bianchimoon wrote:

If I buy lightweight wheels I don't worry about spoke count I just expect hem to be fit for purpose under the goods for sale act

Its not as simple as that. Lightweight wheelsets will be sold as aimed at the racing market and it would be very hard to prove that you should get the same level of service from them as a heavier set of training wheels.

If however you accept that you should get at least 2 years service to meet the sale of goods act then the OP may have a fair point if he cannot afford to buy new wheels every two years. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect training wheelsto last longer that racing wheels.

bianchimoon

I have a two pairs of low spoke count lightweight wheels as do many of my friends, none of us have or expect to discard them every two years (accidents permitting), looked after they last as well as cheaper heavier wheels. I have seen many pairs of 'cheap' heavy wheels have a shorter lifespan the well made lighter ones

bianchimoon

So in answer to raffles original question, in my opinion I don't have any problem whatsoever with low spoke count light weight wheels. The benefits/feel of riding them outweighs negative concerns

Hoopdriver

bianchimoon wrote:

Raffles wrote:

I see wheels frequently for sale with the 20/24 spoke count, and to be honest if I bought same Id be worried. If you do most of your riding on lovely smooth roads and arent excessively heavy then you need fear not, but in my case a fair share of roads that are on my travels are utter crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap. I know if I splashed out on a superlight wheelset with 20/24 spokecount id be picking up said spokes behind me and forever repairing the wheel. The spokecount on my handbuilt wheels are 32/32 and I know it adds weight , but they are strong and (touches wood) Ive not yet had a spoke break despite some real crummy roads. One other personal rule of thumb is im not interested in wheels with bladed spokes for the simple reason if one breaks....ordering a replacement and waiting for it to arrive and all that. Instead I stick with dt spokes which every LBS carries and a fix is minutes work.

So what emphasis do you place on spoke count and how much of a factor is it for you when considering wheels purchases ?

So you've never had any lightweight wheels but have this opinion about them, your comments make no sense whatsoever, if the wheels weren't fit for purpose they wouldn't sell, simple.

People will buy what they are convinced to buy. Fitness for purpose often doesn't enter into it at all.

brindlescoops

Trek sell their road bikes with a max user weight of 275 pounds and plenty come as standard with 20 spoke front wheels. Would a Company like Trek take the risk of getting that wrong and publishing it?

smidsy

BrindleScoops wrote:

Trek sell their road bikes with a max user weight of 275 pounds and plenty come as standard with 20 spoke front wheels. Would a Company like Trek take the risk of getting that wrong and publishing it?

No but that is not the answer. It is capable of taking those weights so is not unsafe but they are quite happy to sell you low spoke wheels every year, more spokes generally means more miles between failures.

Monty Dog

The important thing about spoke count is ensuring that the rims are stiff enough that they can cope with fewer spokes - consequentyly many 20 spoke rims weigh more than a decent 32 hole rim and 12 extra spokes. Mavic used to produce alloy rims that weighed under 300g, but they were pretty flexy so you needed 28 or 32 spokes to make a strong enough wheel.

careful

I have had various low spoke count (bladed) wheels, which have all done several thousands of miles and have never suffered a broken spoke or even needed truing despite crap roads and numerous cattle grids. A couple of pairs are reaching the point of binning because of worn out rims after several years. My only worry has always been the likelihood of being unable to get home with a broken spoke though this has never happened. Years ago when I rode with higher spoke count wheels I suffered numerous spoke breakages but always managed to ride home. As others have said, the materials and design of rims and spokes was different then. Therefore unless touring or riding some epic distance I would have every confidence in decent wheels with a low (bladed) spoke count.

TomBrooklyn

careful wrote:

I have had various low spoke count (bladed) wheels, which have all done several thousands of miles and have never suffered a broken spoke or even needed truing despite crap roads and numerous cattle grids.... My only worry has always been the likelihood of being unable to get home with a broken spoke though this has never happened. Years ago when I rode with higher spoke count wheels I suffered numerous spoke breakages but always managed to ride home.

Do spokes on higher spoke count wheels break more?

simon_masterson

TomBrooklyn wrote:

careful wrote:

I have had various low spoke count (bladed) wheels, which have all done several thousands of miles and have never suffered a broken spoke or even needed truing despite crap roads and numerous cattle grids.... My only worry has always been the likelihood of being unable to get home with a broken spoke though this has never happened. Years ago when I rode with higher spoke count wheels I suffered numerous spoke breakages but always managed to ride home.

Do spokes on higher spoke count wheels break more?

Badly or unsuitably built wheels will break more. More spokes can build a stronger wheel. Many serious racers BITD wanted their wheels as light as possible and would use flexy <300g rims and put up with the durability issues, but in general, if your wheels are built properly with suitable hubs/rims, and enough spokes, breaking spokes should not be a common occurrence.

ayjaycee

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Why not just order a couple in and keep them 'in stock' yourself?

My thoughts exactly. That said, the wheels on both my current road bikes are what some might describe as 'low spoke' count with one set at 20 front and rear and the others at 21 (I did have to look it up!) - without going to the shed in the rain to check I think at least one set are bladed spokes but I have never bothered keeping spares of any and never had any breakages or wheels out of true in a fair few miles. For perspective, I'm 1.85M tall and hover around the 80Kg mark which I don't consider particularly lightweight. Also, although I try to avoid pot holes where possible, the roads around my way (Gloucestershire) are not all exactly billiard table smooth.