cost of racing - can of worms about to open...

okgo

It is not 'cheap' but its certainly no worse than a lot of hobbies I don't think, Golf is a good example probably.

Then again the general demographic in cycling is quite high I recall, so I suppose for most £60 per month on races doesn't matter much, I suspect racing saves me money as I'd otherwise be out drinking I think

clunkychunky

Thanks for all the replies fellas.

I think i should clarify that at no point did i mean for any criticism to be directed towards race organisers.
From what i have seen (as an observer) and heard they do an extremely good job and arent in it for profit.

My complaint is with BC.

Tom Dean wrote:

I don't know the details of BC's budgets etc., but if they are to subsidise amateur racing further, where is the money going to come from? If they did put more money in, why should that go towards reducing entry fees?

Thing is they have put costs up for membership, then they charge for a race license and on top of that theres the levy on racing (i had no idea about this charge until mentioned on here).
If they are going to put a levy on race participants why not reduce the race license?
Or even allow some discounted multievent pass - lets say enter 5 races through the BC site and only pay for 4. They could then use their profits to subsidise the 5th race.
I know its not perfect, but it would encourage more people in to racing (IMO) and im sure would help the sport grow and the country to get better cyclists in the long term.

Anyway, as with most businesses it seems to me they wont make any changes whilst they are turning over a tidy profit.

markos1963

Tom Dean wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Join a club. Firstly this will give you access to like minded riders/training partners and the knowledge of how to ride in fast groups and secondly a lot of clubs give financial backing to their race teams(petrol, entry costs, clothing etc)

Don't join a club in the hope that your racing is going to be subsidised. (are clubs really paying people's petrol costs?) do join a club though.

Well our club has, we paid £100 to each of our regular riders(to be fair we only had three of them) to help cover costs. I think they also got their jerseys and shorts free a couple of years ago.
You are right though, don't join a club expecting this sort of back up, we are just lucky we have good sponsors and a large membership so we can afford this sort of thing from time to time.

Tom Butcher

Pross wrote:

Sorry if my last sentence sounded a bit harsh and it wasn't aimed at you Tom. It's more that the people who complain most are often the one's that do least (not aimed at the OP either who is new to the sport).

No not at all - I'll own up to admitting I only skim read your post and didn't realise you were promoting a race, rather I read it that you just commenting £20 was the going rate and I was just saying well that amount would make me stop and think.

In the context of you actually running a race my reply does read a bit more like a criticism of you and when I realised that I did rather regret posting my opinion because imo race organisers are the unsung heroes of the sport. The first one I organised was possibly the most stressful day of my life - it gets somewhat easier but it's always more work than is worth it.

Pross

clunkychunky wrote:

Thing is they have put costs up for membership, then they charge for a race license and on top of that theres the levy on racing (i had no idea about this charge until mentioned on here).
If they are going to put a levy on race participants why not reduce the race license?

Just for clarity the levy goes directly from the race organiser to BC, it's not a direct extra that the competitor has to pay on top of the entry fee (although they are paying it indirectly as the entry fee reflects the levy charge). I'm not sure what it pays for to be honest as I assume the race registration fee covers the BC administration costs.

Pross

Tom Butcher wrote:

Pross wrote:

Sorry if my last sentence sounded a bit harsh and it wasn't aimed at you Tom. It's more that the people who complain most are often the one's that do least (not aimed at the OP either who is new to the sport).

No not at all - I'll own up to admitting I only skim read your post and didn't realise you were promoting a race, rather I read it that you just commenting £20 was the going rate and I was just saying well that amount would make me stop and think.

In the context of you actually running a race my reply does read a bit more like a criticism of you and when I realised that I did rather regret posting my opinion because imo race organisers are the unsung heroes of the sport. The first one I organised was possibly the most stressful day of my life - it gets somewhat easier but it's always more work than is worth it.

No problem, I knew you organised races yourself. I've done a few in the past but not for 15 years or more and there is a lot more work now with the risk assessments etc. but the online entry system helps a bit. My second race has just gone live - I've stated preference will be given to members of clubs that put on open road or circuit races so I am expecting to get abusive emails from some quarters!

markos1963

Pross wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Pross wrote:

Sorry if my last sentence sounded a bit harsh and it wasn't aimed at you Tom. It's more that the people who complain most are often the one's that do least (not aimed at the OP either who is new to the sport).

No not at all - I'll own up to admitting I only skim read your post and didn't realise you were promoting a race, rather I read it that you just commenting £20 was the going rate and I was just saying well that amount would make me stop and think.

In the context of you actually running a race my reply does read a bit more like a criticism of you and when I realised that I did rather regret posting my opinion because imo race organisers are the unsung heroes of the sport. The first one I organised was possibly the most stressful day of my life - it gets somewhat easier but it's always more work than is worth it.

No problem, I knew you organised races yourself. I've done a few in the past but not for 15 years or more and there is a lot more work now with the risk assessments etc. but the online entry system helps a bit. My second race has just gone live - I've stated preference will be given to members of clubs that put on open road or circuit races so I am expecting to get abusive emails from some quarters!

Good for you, there seems to be a growing band of 'clubs' that don't put on events and just pay the local levys to get into races be it RRs or TTs.

Tom Dean

markos1963 wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Join a club. Firstly this will give you access to like minded riders/training partners and the knowledge of how to ride in fast groups and secondly a lot of clubs give financial backing to their race teams(petrol, entry costs, clothing etc)

Don't join a club in the hope that your racing is going to be subsidised. (are clubs really paying people's petrol costs?) do join a club though.

Well our club has, we paid £100 to each of our regular riders(to be fair we only had three of them) to help cover costs. I think they also got their jerseys and shorts free a couple of years ago.
You are right though, don't join a club expecting this sort of back up, we are just lucky we have good sponsors and a large membership so we can afford this sort of thing from time to time.

:shock: OP - join this club!

DavidJB

Better get a payrise...racing is EXPENSIVE.

Pross

It's hideously expensive if someone writes off your bike (or your wheels) in a racing crash!

Herbsman

I don't see how anyone with a decent full time job can think racing is expensive. I'm poor as f**k compared to a lot of people I see at races, don't earn much, never had a lot of money and probably never will, yet I don't see cost as a problem. I wasn't happy about having to buy a second hand car to guarantee that I can do the races I want to do, but I can't complain - it was half the price of my bike and it's useful for doing the shopping and visiting family...

Either sacrifice some other things in your life or just accept the cost and stop moaning. In my opinion it is cheap for what it is, considering how much hard work goes into organising races as well, how can you moan about paying £60ish once a year and then £12-£15 quid or so once a week?

Herbsman

Pross wrote:

It's hideously expensive if someone writes off your bike (or your wheels) in a racing crash!

So use a cheaper bike, and/or get accidental damage cover on your house contents insurance ;-)

amaferanga

£20 is fine as long as you don't have to pay for a cup of sh!t coffee and homemade cake at the HQ.

DavidJB

Herbsman wrote:

I don't see how anyone with a decent full time job can think racing is expensive. I'm poor as f**k compared to a lot of people I see at races, don't earn much, never had a lot of money and probably never will, yet I don't see cost as a problem. I wasn't happy about having to buy a second hand car to guarantee that I can do the races I want to do, but I can't complain - it was half the price of my bike and it's useful for doing the shopping and visiting family...

Either sacrifice some other things in your life or just accept the cost and stop moaning. In my opinion it is cheap for what it is, considering how much hard work goes into organising races as well, how can you moan about paying £60ish once a year and then £12-£15 quid or so once a week?

Fine if you have races on your back door. Its the £200 in petrol /month that makes it expensive.

markos1963

Tom Dean wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Join a club. Firstly this will give you access to like minded riders/training partners and the knowledge of how to ride in fast groups and secondly a lot of clubs give financial backing to their race teams(petrol, entry costs, clothing etc)

Don't join a club in the hope that your racing is going to be subsidised. (are clubs really paying people's petrol costs?) do join a club though.

Well our club has, we paid £100 to each of our regular riders(to be fair we only had three of them) to help cover costs. I think they also got their jerseys and shorts free a couple of years ago.
You are right though, don't join a club expecting this sort of back up, we are just lucky we have good sponsors and a large membership so we can afford this sort of thing from time to time.

:shock: OP - join this club!

I doubt we would have payed out as much if we'd had twenty riders racing but it was down the the RR Captain to decide. He had been given a budget for the year and hadn't spent it so the payment was made. We are looking at supporting our regular TT racers this year by subsidising a new skin suit, hopefully the left over budget from road racing can be used to do this, we might even have enough to do the suit for free. We also now have a ladies race team so I expect the budget might be spread a bit thinner next year.

Pross

amaferanga wrote:

£20 is fine as long as you don't have to pay for a cup of sh!t coffee and homemade cake at the HQ.

Nope, that'll be free although I will be doing a charity collection at one at the request of the family of the person the memorial race is named after.

clunkychunky

Herbsman wrote:

I don't see how anyone with a decent full time job can think racing is expensive.

So you are agreeing that for those of us not fortunate enough to have an extremely well paid job racing is expensive??
Or are you implying that racing should be exclusively for those in well paid jobs???

This kind of makes my point. Like many people i have a young family, have a mortgage and im not in a job which pays a high salary (barely above minimum wage, but its a job!). So should this mean i shouldnt even bother trying to race??
Or should BC be trying to help make racing more affordable, especially for those of us who dont have money to burn, to allow everyone who wants to race to be able to??

Herbsman wrote:

Either sacrifice some other things in your life or just accept the cost and stop moaning. In my opinion it is cheap for what it is, considering how much hard work goes into organising races as well, how can you moan about paying £60ish once a year and then £12-£15 quid or so once a week?

Er, well £15 a week is £60 a month. On top of that, as we have already discussed, you have fuel costs, insurance costs, etc. Which to any one on a tight budget makes it just about unaffordable.

The more i read your comments the more you make the sport sound like it should be exclusive to those well off.

Tom Dean

If you have to travel long distances to race, a small reduction in entry fees isn't going to make much of a dent in your overall costs to be fair. Obviously everyone has a limit to what they can afford, if that is £60 a month for you, find a cheaper way. Is it so bad to race 3 times instead of 4 in a month?

Like I said, I don't know specifically what BC do with the £3 levy, but presumably it goes toward funding the sport. Is there any reason to think that the cost of race entries does not reflect the actual cost of putting on race?

What insurance costs do you mean?

clunkychunky

Tom Dean wrote:

If you have to travel long distances to race, a small reduction in entry fees isn't going to make much of a dent in your overall costs to be fair. Obviously everyone has a limit to what they can afford, if that is £60 a month for you, find a cheaper way. Is it so bad to race 3 times instead of 4 in a month?

Like I said, I don't know specifically what BC do with the £3 levy, but presumably it goes toward funding the sport. Is there any reason to think that the cost of race entries does not reflect the actual cost of putting on race?

What insurance costs do you mean?

Not at all, as i said before, my gripe is with BC.
I understand the costs involved in organising races. i have alot of admiration and respect for race organisers, without them there would be no racing.

BUT i just dont see any help being made available by BC to help make racing more affordable.
They are the ones im having a go at.

Insurance costs - for bike and personal accident insurance (dont get sick pay from work so to be safe i guess personal accident insurance would be advisable)

Tom Butcher

I'm not sure there is much BC can do to make racing affordable - they have quite a bit of money but it's mostly ring fenced for specific things - so whatever millions they get for elite athletes can't be spent taking a few quid off the cost of a local circuit race.

Some of the costs of racing these days are actually down to BC initiatives to safeguard racing - so NEG motorcycles and stuff like that. Unfortunately with decent sized bunches on todays roads NEG is often a necessity - the way a lot of people ride you do need some kind of process to slow or stop cars at certain points on most circuits.

What would help is if sponsors were easier to come by - but as Pross pointed out I think often sponsors attach themselves to teams instead of races. If you really want affordable racing then the thing to do is get good and find a team that will contribute to your kit/bike/race entry.

Tom Dean

But where do you think the money should come from to make it more affordable?

I never considered insurance - have you actually looked into getting insured for racing? If you are self employed wouldn't you want to have something in place anyway? You could get the flu and not be able to work. As for equipment - I wouldn't recommend racing on anything you can't afford to replace especially when it comes to wheels. The likelihood of breaking an expensive item like a frame is fairly minimal.

SBezza

Racing can be very expensive, if a race every weekend is too expensive then don't race as often. Do 2 races per month, and spend the extra time doing extra training, that is more likely to make you better in the long run anyhow rather than training substandardly during the week to be fresh for the weekend race, doing this will only mean a loss of fitness as the year progresses.

Alternatively as mentioned above take up TT, hell of a lot cheaper, and you don't need BC membership or race license, you just need to be a member of a CTT affliated club/team.

Herbsman

I already said I don't have much money. So it doesn't take much logic to work out that I'm not in a well paid job. Racing is a privilege, not a right. FFS. If you can't afford it, tough sh*t.

clunkychunky wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

I don't see how anyone with a decent full time job can think racing is expensive.

So you are agreeing that for those of us not fortunate enough to have an extremely well paid job racing is expensive??
Or are you implying that racing should be exclusively for those in well paid jobs???

This kind of makes my point. Like many people i have a young family, have a mortgage and im not in a job which pays a high salary (barely above minimum wage, but its a job!). So should this mean i shouldnt even bother trying to race??
Or should BC be trying to help make racing more affordable, especially for those of us who dont have money to burn, to allow everyone who wants to race to be able to??

Herbsman wrote:

Either sacrifice some other things in your life or just accept the cost and stop moaning. In my opinion it is cheap for what it is, considering how much hard work goes into organising races as well, how can you moan about paying £60ish once a year and then £12-£15 quid or so once a week?

Er, well £15 a week is £60 a month. On top of that, as we have already discussed, you have fuel costs, insurance costs, etc. Which to any one on a tight budget makes it just about unaffordable.

The more i read your comments the more you make the sport sound like it should be exclusive to those well off.

hammerite

Wow an awful lot of BC bashing from the OP. without being fully aware of the assistance they give.

In our region for the race registration and levy BC provide insurance for the event and the motor convoy, majority of equipment needed (flags, signs, lights for cars, race radios, marshals hi viz jackets) and the regional events manager came out to help on the day (first race I organised, doubt they'll come to the next). They also sorted out the admin with the police and sorted out the commissaires to attend. I also attended a free road race organisers course last week which was really useful - would've been even more useful had I done it before my first race. I know all that would cost more than the £240 in levies paid (think that might be £320 this year if I get a full field).

Money into BC supports a lot of other initiatives like just the promotion of cycling in general/leisure riding events and Go Ride (kids clubs). I know for a fact that BC provide more support at grass roots than the FA or the ECB do, and probably lots of other governing bodies.

As Bezza says if you can't afford to race every week don't race every week. Race less often. Maybe I'm lucky as I could afford to race every week, however, time doesn't allow. It's a lot easier to keep everyone happy at home and do a for a 3-4 hour ride from my front door than it is to do a 2.5 hour race plus travelling and warm up/flapping every week.

AK_jnr

Lol bike racing is cheap.

I have come from the bottom end of motor racing where entry fees were £350+, then you had the cost of fuel, trailors, vans, parts, kit. It was hideously expensive.

maryka

Herbsman wrote:

I already said I don't have much money. So it doesn't take much logic to work out that I'm not in a well paid job. Racing is a privilege, not a right. FFS. If you can't afford it, tough sh*t.

+1

I think the "privilege not a right" thing is where people go wrong. I'm quite happy to see racing at a cost level that makes people think twice about doing it to make sure they can afford it. And actually I can't think of any other sport with the possibility of seriously injuring other people (crashes caused by idiot riders happen all the time) and racking up tons of damaged equipment is so high, yet the relative cost is so low.

Anyone who thinks they can't afford to race should think a bit more about how much it could cost them if they end up with a broken arm or leg, or back, unable to work and support their family. Cycle road racing isn't a sport to be gotten into as a lark, the risk is very real. And it's quite scary how many people think they should be entitled to do it, and who have no respect for the danger of bunch riding in return. If you think it's too expensive and someone (BC) should be subsidising your desire to go out and get your thrills, go back to cricket.

bigmat

It costs what it costs - I don't get the impression there are too many fat cats creaming off the profit from putting on races. I agree its a shame if people feel they can't access the sport for financial reasons, but really its not that expensive to race - compared to the outlay on bike, equipment etc, the race fees are pretty nominal.

On_What

I used to compete off road, one of the cheapest forms of motorsport. I never won anything but the enjoyment it gave was great, but an average weekend would cost:

£70 on petrol that might last the day -V8
£100 diesel to get to any event towing the borrowed trailer
£20 food/beer/other stuff
£45 entry fee



This would also mean working for the friday before the event prepping the truck/kit and if we broke anything it came out of our pockets, (1 tyre could cost £140). To be competitive would have cost thousands in time and parts.

So not only is cycle racing better on your free time it's also a butt load cheaper!

Strith

BigMat wrote:

It costs what it costs - I don't get the impression there are too many fat cats creaming off the profit from putting on races. I agree its a shame if people feel they can't access the sport for financial reasons, but really its not that expensive to race - compared to the outlay on bike, equipment etc, the race fees are pretty nominal.

Pretty much this. Expensive is a relative term. It's pretty good value for money I think.

Nik Cube

Racing isn't badly priced at all I've only paid £10 to race, i choose where I race and usually share the cost of transport with someone. To really save money I often ride to a race - makes a good warm up.

Sounds like the op feels he is owed something and is being a moaning Minnie mtfu