Remembering Marco Pantani

disgruntledgoat
disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
edited February 2013 in Pro race
9 years since his death and a nice piece on CN

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/remembering-marco-pantani-nine-years-after-his-death
"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

@gietvangent
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Comments

  • the_cyclist_of_catan
    the_cyclist_of_catan Posts: 354
    So that we kick this off in the right way, are we to remember him as a talented cyclist, or as a drug cheat like Lance? Seems to me that a number of the people in that piece would have been complicit in the drug taking for performance gains, and at least aware of the "recreational" problems, so their comments have to be seen against that background.
    They use their cars as shopping baskets; they use their cars as overcoats.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    The Cyclist of Catan wrote:
    So that we kick this off in the right way, are we to remember him as a talented cyclist, or as a drug cheat like Lance? Seems to me that a number of the people in that piece would have been complicit in the drug taking for performance gains, and at least aware of the "recreational" problems, so their comments have to be seen against that background.

    Both, I think. But his tragedy is that he was lauded, then cast out by the sport he made his living in, completely unequipped to deal with the problems it had created for him.

    Whatever you think of drugs in sport, or the "reality" of his talent, his is a sad story that deserves to be remembered.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • samb01
    samb01 Posts: 130
    Been a while since I read it, but according to Matt Rendells biography, "The Death of Marco Pantani", there was little to no indication that Marco Pantani was a talented cyclist.

    Quite frankly, although Rendell tries his best to stay sympathetic to the man, he basically slaughters him. Leaves him with very little honour.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    samb01 wrote:
    Been a while since I read it, but according to Matt Rendells biography, "The Death of Marco Pantani", there was little to no indication that Marco Pantani was a talented cyclist.

    Quite frankly, although Rendell tries his best to stay sympathetic to the man, he basically slaughters him. Leaves him with very little honour.

    Either he was the best responder or heaviest doper of all time ever, or he had no small measure of talent. Either way, nobody deserves to die alone aged 34 in avoidable circumstances.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    samb01 wrote:
    Been a while since I read it, but according to Matt Rendells biography, "The Death of Marco Pantani", there was little to no indication that Marco Pantani was a talented cyclist.

    Quite frankly, although Rendell tries his best to stay sympathetic to the man, he basically slaughters him. Leaves him with very little honour.


    You and I took very different readings from Rendell's book then. If Rendell slaughters anyone, its the leeches and enablers around Pantani.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Always worth another watch Oropa : Giro d'Italia 1999
  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 480
    agree with that RR. i though of the rendell book and pantani when i read about gazza being wheel out by his agents recently.

    i didnt know about the film being made about him, same team as did senna according to inner ring so i have quite high expectations.


    http://inrng.com/2013/02/book-review-th ... o-pantani/
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    samb01 wrote:
    Been a while since I read it, but according to Matt Rendells biography, "The Death of Marco Pantani", there was little to no indication that Marco Pantani was a talented cyclist.

    Quite frankly, although Rendell tries his best to stay sympathetic to the man, he basically slaughters him. Leaves him with very little honour.


    You and I took very different readings from Rendell's book then. If Rendell slaughters anyone, its the leeches and enablers around Pantani.

    Quite true. It appears to me at least that whilst he had a level of talent ( great climber, and fantastic descender) (knowingly boosted by EPO, amongst other drugs/ stimulants), it appears he was ill equipped at best to cope with the pressure, a sad fall from the heights of doing a tour/ giro double, to cocaine related death 6 years later. Very sad.
  • samb01
    samb01 Posts: 130
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    You and I took very different readings from Rendell's book then. If Rendell slaughters anyone, its the leeches and enablers around Pantani.
    Well, I think your reading is almost certainly closer to what Rendell intended. As I read it, Pantani mostly came off as an asshole.

    As for Gascoigne, what is there to feel sorry for? Great footballer, giant douche. A fucking wife-beater.
  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 480
    samb01 wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    You and I took very different readings from Rendell's book then. If Rendell slaughters anyone, its the leeches and enablers around Pantani.
    Well, I think your reading is almost certainly closer to what Rendell intended. As I read it, Pantani mostly came off as an asshole.

    As for Gascoigne, what is there to feel sorry for? Great footballer, giant douche. A ******* wife-beater.

    i only highlighted the similarities of being manipulated by those closest to him, nothing about feeling sorry for him.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Impossible to judge the man's talent due to the extreme quantities of doping, but the same can be said of a lot of the champions of that era.

    What must happen however is that no-one forgets how he died, used and spat out by the sport that cashed in on his fame. A bit like Vandenbroucke it shows the really sinister side of doping and the sport in general and the sport should do everything it can to prevent it happening again.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Timoid. wrote:
    Impossible to judge the man's talent due to the extreme quantities of doping, but the same can be said of a lot of the champions of that era.

    What must happen however is that no-one forgets how he died, used and spat out by the sport that cashed in on his fame. A bit like Vandenbroucke it shows the really sinister side of doping and the sport in general and the sport should do everything it can to prevent it happening again.


    +1
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Timoid. wrote:
    Impossible to judge the man's talent due to the extreme quantities of doping, but the same can be said of a lot of the champions of that era.

    What must happen however is that no-one forgets how he died, used and spat out by the sport that cashed in on his fame. A bit like Vandenbroucke it shows the really sinister side of doping and the sport in general and the sport should do everything it can to prevent it happening again.

    This is what I was driving at, but much less eloquently.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,070
    I prefer to remember Pantani in his prime. I know he was EPO'd to the gills, but it was incredible watching him climb. He was much under-rated as a TTer as well for a guy so small, albeit with the same caveats.

    I think his demise was due to inherent character flaws and he was probably doomed to live an unhappy life whatever he did.

    On a lighter note, does anyone know why the "Marco Pantani Memorial" is where it is on the upper slopes of the Galibier? In the garden of a place that flogs Beaufort cheese seems an odd venue, unless this is where he attacked to put Ullrich to the sword in the 1998 Tour.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    On a lighter note, does anyone know why the "Marco Pantani Memorial" is where it is on the upper slopes of the Galibier? In the garden of a place that flogs Beaufort cheese seems an odd venue, unless this is where he attacked to put Ullrich to the sword in the 1998 Tour.

    Didn't know there was a memorial on the Galibier, but then a quick search reveals there is also this one on the Mortirolo.

    thomson09c-pantani.jpg

    This one in Cesenatico.

    pantani.jpg

    This one on Les Deux Alpes.

    pantani,monument,deux_alpes%20(e_seldenthuis,apr-2002).jpg

    And this one on the Colle della Fauniera.

    pantani+memorial.jpg
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    I prefer to remember Pantani in his prime. I know he was EPO'd to the gills, but it was incredible watching him climb. He was much under-rated as a TTer as well for a guy so small, albeit with the same caveats.

    I think his demise was due to inherent character flaws and he was probably doomed to live an unhappy life whatever he did.

    His behaviour towards Tafi shows him to be cut from the same lycra as Armstrong
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • trek_dan
    trek_dan Posts: 1,366
    Timoid. wrote:
    Impossible to judge the man's talent due to the extreme quantities of doping, but the same can be said of a lot of the champions of that era.

    What must happen however is that no-one forgets how he died, used and spat out by the sport that cashed in on his fame. A bit like Vandenbroucke it shows the really sinister side of doping and the sport in general and the sport should do everything it can to prevent it happening again.
    +2
    From my memory of the book one of the main triggers that sent him into his cocaine and alochol fuelled depression that eventually killed him was getting popped at the '99 Giro, when all those around him were cheating in similar measures.. and we all know what happened to a similar cheat who also was alleged to have failed drug tests over the next 7 years :roll:
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    There were very few things in cycling more exciting than a Pantani attack, or waiting for a Pantani attack.

    I always post this in Pantani threads. Guido Belaconto serenading him:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz_c_0ZhaoA
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    It is more than a little harsh to describe Marco Pantani as an asshole. He was certainly a troubled character and sadly his substance abuse, on and off the bike, lead to his demise. It was still a joy to watch him dance up the climbs and leave everyone in his wake. His committed descending was also impressive. I still love to watch the DVDs of his race wins, even though these images are tarnished by his use of artificial assistance.

    Possibly the greatest single-day race of the last twenty years, the 1995 World Professional Road Race, was greatly enlivened by Pantani's contribution.

    I hope Marco now rests in peace.

    DD.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,070
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Didn't know there was a memorial on the Galibier...

    It certainly has the air of an unofficial memorial, as it's just the outline of a bike on the ground. Still, at that point on the Galibier, I've been sorely tempted to stop and investigate in more detail during my two Marmottes!
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,907
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    On a lighter note, does anyone know why the "Marco Pantani Memorial" is where it is on the upper slopes of the Galibier? In the garden of a place that flogs Beaufort cheese seems an odd venue, unless this is where he attacked to put Ullrich to the sword in the 1998 Tour.

    Didn't know there was a memorial on the Galibier, but then a quick search reveals there is also this one on the Mortirolo.

    thomson09c-pantani.jpg

    This one in Cesenatico.

    pantani.jpg

    This one on Les Deux Alpes.

    pantani,monument,deux_alpes%20(e_seldenthuis,apr-2002).jpg

    And this one on the Colle della Fauniera.

    pantani+memorial.jpg

    Been to the ones on the Mortirolo and in les Deux Alpes. Think the Alpes one is made to look much bigger by the camera angle. Unless you were looking for it you would easily walk straight past it.

    The Mortirolo one is also a bit peculiar, and you'd struggle to say it was a nice looking memorial, although by the time you've reached that part on the climb there's little that will look good other than the top. An absolutely horrid climb.

    As to his legacy though, I was obviously oblivious to the background, but his attack on the Galibier is what got me into cycling. Incredible to watch. With hindsight it's hard to have any heroes or inspirations from that period, but as much as anyone could be, he was mine.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    A very sad episode in cycling. I was a huge fan and in the standard cycling supporter hypocritical manner I still am but I suspect it is the reason I struggle to enjoy 'exciting' riders today. It was the highlight of those years in the Tour to wait for the first mountain stage and the inevitable attack.
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    edited February 2013
    I enjoyed a cycling holiday in Riccione, Italy in 2010. During the holiday, we visited Cesanatico, the Pantani Mausoleum and the Marco Pantani Museum. Here are a few photos from that day. If you are in this part of Italy, it is worth paying a visit to Pantani's home town.

    First up are photos of the mausoleum.

    IMG_1414_zpsb3936b41.jpg

    IMG_1417_zpsc9608861.jpg

    IMG_1426_zps1bc29b37.jpg

    IMG_1428_zps125cd699.jpg

    IMG_1438_zps48eeb92c.jpg

    IMG_1435_zps9d865f69.jpg

    DD.
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    The Marco Pantani Museum. Included in these photos are some images of the great man's art!

    IMG_1475_zps2dadc711.jpg

    IMG_1444_zps1d3ec57d.jpg

    IMG_1460_zps48565dc1.jpg

    IMG_1472_zpsfc78756f.jpg

    IMG_1453_zpse0fa4997.jpg

    IMG_1447_zps02bfc785.jpg

    IMG_1451_zps3d985405.jpg

    IMG_1448_zps5570a862.jpg

    IMG_1449_zps78d02c9f.jpg

    DD.
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    Finally, here are some of Marco's bicycles. Like the rest of us, Marco started out on a modest stead!

    IMG_1469_zps13803947.jpg

    IMG_1465_zps348dfb25.jpg

    IMG_1462_zpsccfb7803.jpg

    IMG_1459_zps45297d6b.jpg

    IMG_1445_zps488116f2.jpg

    IMG_1443_zps0ab3cdb2.jpg

    IMG_1456_zps8f96dee8.jpg

    Finally, one of my all-time favourite pro bikes, Pantani's yellow Carrera.

    IMG_1441_zps6543b505.jpg

    DD.
  • ms_tree
    ms_tree Posts: 1,405
    Timoid. wrote:
    Impossible to judge the man's talent due to the extreme quantities of doping, but the same can be said of a lot of the champions of that era.

    What must happen however is that no-one forgets how he died, used and spat out by the sport that cashed in on his [/b]fame. A bit like Vandenbroucke it shows the really sinister side of doping and the sport in general and the sport should do everything it can to prevent it happening again.
    +3
    Got the candle and the joss-sticks burning as we speak.
    Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, as mother-in-law Tree would say, may you moult!
    Dolan Driver - I was amazed how small Marco's bike was; I'm about 5'5" and I could have sat on it comfortably.
    place to stay in Cesenatico on the Porto-Canale:
    http://xoomer.alice.it/maraffa-cesenatico
    although it was a few years ago.
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    I have no time for dopers but cant seem to bring myself to bad mouth Pantani. His personality was not his interview technique or his media profile, it was simply his riding. When Marco attacked It always made me sit up and get excited, win or lose.
    The fact he was so strong on the bike but so weak and vulnerabe off it only added to his mystique.
    Also he gave lots of his own money to charity with no fanfare or publicity. I believe when questioned on this he once said, something like, "Good work should be done quietly".

    The way he died still fills me with sadness.

    RIP Marco, thanks for the memories.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,818
    Bug*er!
    Just seen that Rai Sport 2 have been running a 2 and a half hour memorial show..............which finishes in 25 minutes. :( :oops:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • durhamwasp
    durhamwasp Posts: 1,247
    samb01 wrote:
    Been a while since I read it, but according to Matt Rendells biography, "The Death of Marco Pantani", there was little to no indication that Marco Pantani was a talented cyclist.

    Quite frankly, although Rendell tries his best to stay sympathetic to the man, he basically slaughters him. Leaves him with very little honour.
    Yes, must have been a very long while....
    http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....
  • durhamwasp
    durhamwasp Posts: 1,247
    Dolan Driver wrote:
    I enjoyed a cycling holiday in Riccione, Italy in 2010. During the holiday, we visited Cesanatico, the Pantani Mausoleum and the Marco Pantani Museum. Here are a few photos from that day. If you are in this part of Italy, it is worth paying a visit to Pantani's home town.

    First up are photos of the mausoleum.

    IMG_1414_zpsb3936b41.jpg

    IMG_1417_zpsc9608861.jpg

    IMG_1426_zps1bc29b37.jpg

    IMG_1428_zps125cd699.jpg

    IMG_1438_zps48eeb92c.jpg

    IMG_1435_zps9d865f69.jpg

    DD.
    Nice pics... did you fly into Ancona? Just looking at flights there with Ryanair. Would there be much to see/do in March?
    http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....

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