Sram X0 or XTR 2012 groupset

rave81

I'm torn apart from these two groupset Sram X0 and Shimano XTR 2012. In two weeks, I need to purchase the groupset to complete the bike im completing.

Which one do you recommend and why and in addition how durable is the Sram X0 2x10 crankset, will it withstand bashing on the big rocks?

What is the material of the XTR M980 10sp trigger shift

Which groupset is durable, easier to maintain and setup in the long rung

last time which rear derailleur cage length (medium or long) is suitable for 2x10 setup with 11-36 cassette. I am leaning either x0 type 2 or the XTR Shadow plus.

Please post your reply if you have used either X0 or XTR 2011- 2013 groupset. Exclude the brakes, because I have made up my mind that I will use Shimano XT m785 brakes.

supersonic

I have tested both these groupsets for What Mountain Bike. I preferred the XTR derailers and chainset, but found the X0 shifters to be better. The XTR paddles are made from a carbon composite, but I didn't think they were the best made, was a bit of play in them which detracted from the level of shifting you'd expect. the Xo however had no slop whatsoever, and despite that usual loud click you get with them, was still light and quick.

The XTR rear mech with the clutch is the best mech I have used though, and seemed to work better with standard XT shifters.

Don't be afraid to mix and match, but you must match shifter to rear derailer.

Richie63

I am running XT shifters with XTR clutch derailleur works superb for me . Agree with Supersonic.

marz

Interesting comparison as I'd have thought X0 and XT were competing levels of groupset and that XTR lines up against XX.
But to choose from the options you've given and for me, XTR crank and pedals, XO shifters, cassette, chain and derailleurs (long cage type 2).

rockmonkeysc

I have X0 mech and shifter on my downhill bike. They are ok but I miss the two direction release you get with Shimano shifters. The mech has been faultless but the shifter does seem to collect dirt and grit inside it, I have never seen this with Shimano shifters. I would say that the X0 components are somewhere between SLX & XT for performance and quality, certainly not up to XTR standard. Although I have descendant cranks instead of X0, they have the same GPX bottom bracket which doesn't seem to last as well as Shimano XT bottom brackets. I have got through two in three months and considering a Chris King bottom bracket for the next replacement.
I would always buy Shimano over SRAM.

rave81

Initially I'm thinking to get a sram xx1 groupset, but all shops locally and online run out of stock.

Is it possible to use shimano bb91 press fit bb with x0 crank gxp?

rave81

I went to visit 4 bike shop today, most of them prefer XTR than X0, since they all agree that XTR is high quality/durable than X0 or XX/XX1.

I've tried bought bike XTR and X0. I like them both.

Is is true that is more difficult to tune shifters of XTR than X0?

Chunkers1980

No.

The Rookie

I find Sram shifter/derailleur a little easier to set up, but when I say a little I mean a little.

njee20

Interesting comparison as I'd have thought X0 and XT were competing levels of groupset and that XTR lines up against XX.

Only on pure hierarchical terms, X.0 is more expensive than XTR, XX is another level. That said, if you take the cassette out of the equation there's very little weight difference.

Have you tried all the online shops for XX1? It's what I'd be buying now.

I used XX for a year, and have had XTR for two. I'd buy XTR every time personally. I can see what SS et al are saying about the quality of the shifters, they perhaps feel a bit vague compared to the very snappy SRAM, but I prefer the ergonomics. The XX cassette is beautiful, and weighs nothing, but it put me off riding in the wet as they're just so expensive! Similarly the jockey wheels lasted one 4 hour race, and OEM replacements are £120.

Is it possible to use shimano bb91 press fit bb with x0 crank gxp?

No, but you can get GXP Press-Fit cups.

rave81

njee20 wrote:

Interesting comparison as I'd have thought X0 and XT were competing levels of groupset and that XTR lines up against XX.

Only on pure hierarchical terms, X.0 is more expensive than XTR, XX is another level. That said, if you take the cassette out of the equation there's very little weight difference.

Have you tried all the online shops for XX1? It's what I'd be buying now.

I used XX for a year, and have had XTR for two. I'd buy XTR every time personally. I can see what SS et al are saying about the quality of the shifters, they perhaps feel a bit vague compared to the very snappy SRAM, but I prefer the ergonomics. The XX cassette is beautiful, and weighs nothing, but it put me off riding in the wet as they're just so expensive! Similarly the jockey wheels lasted one 4 hour race, and OEM replacements are £120.

Is it possible to use shimano bb91 press fit bb with x0 crank gxp?

No, but you can get GXP Press-Fit cups.

What do you think about the carbon arm of XX, does it last, does it get chip easily?

Is the XTR SL-m980 shifters made of metal covering similar to X0 shifters?
I mainly setting up a bike for single/technical track.

njee20

It chips very easily, and the chain rings lasted no time at all, my outer ring was totally ruined after 6 months. Admittedly replacements aren't as expensive as XTR though. I put protective tape on the cranks, but even so the ends scuffed.

The shifters don't feel like metal like the older M950s, they just feel like plastic frankly. I've not used the latest X.0 ones, but the XXs are carbon. They do feel quite solid in comparison, but the XTRs are smoother and softer in operation.

rave81

njee20 wrote:

Interesting comparison as I'd have thought X0 and XT were competing levels of groupset and that XTR lines up against XX.

Only on pure hierarchical terms, X.0 is more expensive than XTR, XX is another level. That said, if you take the cassette out of the equation there's very little weight difference.

Have you tried all the online shops for XX1? It's what I'd be buying now.

I used XX for a year, and have had XTR for two. I'd buy XTR every time personally. I can see what SS et al are saying about the quality of the shifters, they perhaps feel a bit vague compared to the very snappy SRAM, but I prefer the ergonomics. The XX cassette is beautiful, and weighs nothing, but it put me off riding in the wet as they're just so expensive! Similarly the jockey wheels lasted one 4 hour race, and OEM replacements are £120.

Is it possible to use shimano bb91 press fit bb with x0 crank gxp?

No, but you can get GXP Press-Fit cups.

Yikes that a waste of money if it only last within 6 months. The price of the X0 and xtr are almost the same at CRC.

15 out of 20 bike mechanics that I talked today in Perth, Western Australia, advised me that Shimano XT/XTR last longer than SRAM X0/XX. I think i will purchase shimano xtr groupset, it would be expensive to purchase now, but in the long run it would be cheaper, since I don't need to replace the parts every often as your mentioned, especially SRAM X0/XX components is more expensive than shimano xt/xtr.

ddraver

Allow me to indulge in a theory...

SRAM are far better at innovation than Shimano, they ve been the first with Grip shift, 2 x 10 MTB and 1 x 11 MTB for example (A spanner in the theory is clutch mechs, which Shimano got to first). If you want the latest in MTB groupset technology you need to go SRAM. THis is often the case on the road too (although they ve been left behind on Electronic shifting - where is that for MTB's by the way! - they re way ahead on road disks).

However once SRAM have established the demand for a certain set up or technology, Shimano always comes in a year or two later and does it better and usually cheaper. Not sure why this is the case, i'd hazard a guess at the way the companies are set up.

rockmonkeysc

ddraver wrote:

Allow me to indulge in a theory...

SRAM are far better at innovation than Shimano, they ve been the first with Grip shift.

I had shimano grip shift about 10 years ago. It was crap then and it's crap now.
1x11 isn't really innovation, it's taking an industry standard and adding one extra sprocket, that's not a huge leap forward in mechanical design.

ddraver

But they were first, I'll bet you that Shimano are working on XTR11 as we speak now they know that people want it...

supersonic

The innovation is the 42 tooth sprocket. 11 just makes the gaps smaller.

Shimano had a prototype FOURTEEN speed cassette!

njee20

I think XX1 is very innovative, just not because it has 11 sprockets (campag did that first anyway) - the X-Driver body and the chainring teeth and what not is very clever.

Shimano aren't hugely innovative. They will release products that are 100% ready for market. They will just work perfectly all the time. There's no sense that you're doing some sort of beta testing (see the will it/won't it need a chain guide on XX1) with them. As such I think it's fair to say Shimano aren't as innovative, but will often offer a better quality product in the end.

Grip Shift is personal, I loved X.0 Grip Shift for 9 speed.

supersonic

Yeah, I agree, when the Shimano stuff hits the shops it often seems a little heavier, but you know is quality. That said, as above, I found the latest XTR shifters to be below par.

Shimano have released some quirky things, we have the Capreo cassette driver, those weird slotted hubs and of course rapid rise never took off. (nor did dual control).

The Rookie

Damn - I have STi shifter (XT) and Rapid Rise (XTR) on my MTB.....and the wife has an RR LX on hers!

While non Rapid Rise works with STi it's not very conveniant (It's pretty hard to downshift and brake at the same time), what killed the dual control in my opinion were that the MX75 were so damned Fugly! (I have M765).

Bemused that my M965 rear mech weighs the same as the lads much newer SRAM X0.

Tend to agree though, Shimano make very sure of the quality (and more so I think the likelyhood of a market) while SRAM rush stuff out a bit, like their damped mechs.......

supersonic

I have rapid rise on my Spesh, XTR rear mech with Deore pods. Is astonishingly quick at shifting, runs the set up on my Zaskar damn close! In fact I prefer it in some situations.

ddraver

Meant to add, without SRAM, we'd all be riding Dual Control

*Shudder*

dusk

I haven't tried xtr but I have 2013 X0 gears with type 2 mech and it is really well made and it shifts so well, i've always been a shimano fan but i've been pleasantly surprised. Whoever compared xt/slx to X0 has got a screw loose, X0 is great quality and the type2 mech is really good especially the cage lock!

njee20

I liked Dual Control! Never used it with a rapid rise mech admittedly, with with a standard mech it was great!

rave81

This morning I received bought groupset that I purchased from CRC. in my inspection. Shimano XTR is higher built quality and more robust than Sram X0. I will return the Sram X0 to CRC.

I highly recommend Shimano XTR. the components looks and feel more solid than SRAM X0.

Time.to.ride

I run full 2013 10 spd XT groupset ( Chainset, front and rear mechs Clutch version, and shifters) with Saint brakes, and it is the sweetest ride i have ever had, so smooth and light and responsive. Shimano all the way

lumberjake

If you look at other industries, Japanese are rather conservative companies who like evolution as opposed to revolution in their product lines as they know that if it works why mess with it.
Sram on the other hand have the majority of their R&D in Germany, a nation known for pushing the envelope.
Frankly, having these 2 is perfect for consumers as each is forcing the others to be good at both angles.
Personally, I have had better luck with Shimano.
Shimano has shied away from exploiting carbon in their mtb groups compared to SRAM and this is, imo, the reason for both the slight weight penalty and more reliable Shimano parts.
I think carbon is great and has its place but side with Shimano with its use in mtb drive train components.
These parts often get direct impacts from rock as well as being covered in mud which is full of hard silica particles, both situations are real weaknesses for the far softer material of carbon in comparison to hardened aluminum alloy.
Just look at what happened when Shimano briefly tried using carbon on both onner/outer cage arms of the rear mech. They were plagued with snapping. Again, this just proves carbon is not the best material in every situation, metals simply handle impacts better.
As for parts that, for the most part, will only undergo stresses already intended in the specific parts design with little else, I think carbon is great. Stuff like frames, bars, posts, saddles etc but as soon as carbon parts experience stress in a manner not thought of during the design and lay up this is where failure occurs and where metals, with its relatively simple unidirectional strength and hardness resists such unintended stress.
I think Shimano, while being conservative, have also been smart in not chasing the carbon trend with off road components and stuck with what they know from decades of experience works and finds ways to exploit this material to its fullest while choosing carbon only where it offers a real advantage.
I mean, is SRAM cassette better? Sure it is. However, look at the bottom line, compared to XTR the shift quality is no better, durability ditto, weight savings minimal but about the only difference is price with it being massively more expensive. I think they saw what I am seeing, the advantage to cost ratio is not worth it.
Finally, as mentioned elsewhere, when you buy Shimano, you know it's going g to work as expected. SRAM? Not so much. I read numerous incidents regarding the new gripshift with part failures. I get the impression that sometimes things get rushed to production before all bugs have been worked out.
I do think SRAM does much more R&D regarding technology in general which is great because if Shimano were the o Ly game in town I fear we would have a fraction of the advances we have today.

rockmonkeysc

I'm using SRAM X0 on my downhill bike. It's not as good as the Shimano XT on my trail bike let alone as good as XTR.

supersonic

Shimano still use carbon in the rear mechs - the XTR M9000, and chainrings right down to SLX level use steel teeth mounted in a carbon composite carrier. Admittedly the usage is not as much as SRAM, and I agree that carbon is harder to get right - but I think are advantages in the right places, as you say.

SRAM have been very quick to launch new 11 speed groupsets, and I can see 11 speed NX being a big player on the OE scene on sub £1000 bikes. On the shop floor this will have some pulling power as will stand out and has had a lot of press. Also it uses a standard freehub body which will appeal to after market users, but you don't get the 10t - and it weighs a frightening 540g.

So what will Shimano do? In the US they have reduced the prices of aftermarket XT and XTR so shops can compete better with big retailers selling OE equipment. 11 speed SLX is an option, but that then leaves them with just one 10 speed groupset (excluding saint and zee) and I doubt they'll revamp Alivio again so quickly. Maybe they will run two versions like SRAM do with GX - but this just confuses things and I think SRAMs groupsets are an entangled mess anyway. Personally I think they will produce a brand new 11 speed groupset to get back the limelight and also improve XT - it needs to be lighter.

rockmonkeysc

I don't think Zee and Saint should go 11 speed. As downhill groupsets they'd be better as top quality 8 speed groupsets.

supersonic

I agree, 8 speed is just tougher and longer lasting. Even old 8 speed short cage Altus mechs just trundle on for ages.