Carbon wheels - Tubs or Clinchers??

Weeman1973

Please forgive me as I'm sure this has been discussed many times but I am after a set of new wheels & fancy some 50mm carbon rims but can't decide between clinchers or tubs?

I have no intention of racing & am very light at around 62kg so that shouldn't be a concern. I cutrently ride on Ambrosio Excellight rims with 105 hubs which are great but a friend was waxing lyrical about the ride tubs give you & couldn't understand why anybody would ride clinchers. When I explained I am not into racing & only cycle for pleasure with the odd sportive thrown in he reckoned tubs are still the way to go as they are as easy as clinchers to change on a ride - is this right in anybody's experience?

I understand that the whole tyre needs replacing when a tub punctures but again my friend says he adds something in his tubs so he never punctures? Also have read horror stories of getting tubs off rims when puncturing so don't really fancy being stranded 30 miles from home & not being able to change a flat!

Bottom line is are tubs worth it over clinchers for what I would use them for - sportives & regular 30 - 50 mile rides on not the best of roads

ugo.santalucia

Weeman1973 wrote:

Please forgive me as I'm sure this has been discussed many times but I am after a set of new wheels & fancy some 50mm carbon rims but can't decide between clinchers or tubs?

I have no intention of racing & am very light at around 62kg so that shouldn't be a concern. I cutrently ride on Ambrosio Excellight rims with 105 hubs which are great but a friend was waxing lyrical about the ride tubs give you & couldn't understand why anybody would ride clinchers. When I explained I am not into racing & only cycle for pleasure with the odd sportive thrown in he reckoned tubs are still the way to go as they are as easy as clinchers to change on a ride - is this right in anybody's experience?

I understand that the whole tyre needs replacing when a tub punctures but again my friend says he adds something in his tubs so he never punctures? Also have read horror stories of getting tubs off rims when puncturing so don't really fancy being stranded 30 miles from home & not being able to change a flat!

Bottom line is are tubs worth it over clinchers for what I would use them for - sportives & regular 30 - 50 mile rides on not the best of roads

It seems to me you don't need tubulars, let alone carbon wheels... if you do want carbon wheels to show your friends and shave off that important 5 minutes off your 100 miles sportive best time, then it makes sense to buy tubulars... Planet X tubulars for instance.

I wrote a little piece on tubular tyres (not necessarily fitted on carbon rims)

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... rth-hassle

Weeman1973

Cheers Ugo - I bought the Ambrossio's from Planet X on your recommendation & have to say they are great but love the look of deeper section carbon rims (shallow I know!).

Great piece on tubulars you wrote & all makes sense. I guess it wouldn't hurt to maybe pick up a 2nd hand set of carbon tubs to try them & keep the Ambrossio Clinchers as well, see which I prefer?

If I do end up stranded by the side of the road somewhere, I'll only do it once!

Any truth in what my friend said about adding some slime or something to tubs to prevent punturing?

ugo.santalucia

Weeman1973 wrote:

Cheers Ugo - I bought the Ambrossio's from Planet X on your recommendation & have to say they are great but love the look of deeper section carbon rims (shallow I know!).

Great piece on tubulars you wrote & all makes sense. I guess it wouldn't hurt to maybe pick up a 2nd hand set of carbon tubs to try them & keep the Ambrossio Clinchers as well, see which I prefer?

If I do end up stranded by the side of the road somewhere, I'll only do it once!

Any truth in what my friend said about adding some slime or something to tubs to prevent punturing?

You can fill them with liquid latex, but by doing so you lose a bit of the magic. Get over the puncture fear...

danlikesbikes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I wrote a little piece on tubular tyres (not necessarily fitted on carbon rims)

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... rth-hassle

Good piece thanks for the link - am considering a move to tubs myself and makes for a good reasoned argument for the move.

majormantra

I don't think it's an irrational fear of punctures. Imagine this scenario: I set off for a 100 mile ride. 10 miles in, I puncture. I try to fix it with Pitstop (or whatever sealant) and that doesn't work, which is quite likely by all accounts. So instead I swap in my pre-glued spare tyre.

Now I have a choice - I can do 90 miles on a tyre that isn't fully secured - that means no hard cornering, which means not enjoying any of the descending, and it also means not keeping up if I'm with a group. Added to that, I have no more options if I puncture again.

Or, I can go home and abandon my ride.

I like the idea of riding tubs all the time in principle, but I just can't see the logic. I can't rely on being able to phone for a lift so if I actually got stranded I'd have to hitch my way home, which on quiet country roads could be quite difficult.

Regarding that other argument, rolling resistance, I was under the impression that some modern clinchers actually offer lower rolling resistance than tubulars.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

I don't think it's an irrational fear of punctures. Imagine this scenario: I set off for a 100 mile ride. 10 miles in, I puncture. I try to fix it with Pitstop (or whatever sealant) and that doesn't work, which is quite likely by all accounts. So instead I swap in my pre-glued spare tyre.

Now I have a choice - I can do 90 miles on a tyre that isn't fully secured - that means no hard cornering, which means not enjoying any of the descending, and it also means not keeping up if I'm with a group. Added to that, I have no more options if I puncture again.

Or, I can go home and abandon my ride.

I like the idea of riding tubs all the time in principle, but I just can't see the logic. I can't rely on being able to phone for a lift so if I actually got stranded I'd have to hitch my way home, which on quiet country roads could be quite difficult.

Regarding that other argument, rolling resistance, I was under the impression that some modern clinchers actually offer lower rolling resistance than tubulars.

Clincher or tubulars, everyone has a story like this. Puncture twice on a clinche rand you are in the same position, break a chain, rip a tyre and you are in the same position. At the Eroica there are 5000 entrants, more than half ride on vintage battered tubulars. There are punctures and people changing tyres and everybody has a good day... It is an irrational fear, like flying, or getting stuck in an elevator. It is a bit worse though, as the consequences of being stranded on a sunny day with a mobile phone are not so dramatic?..

majormantra

Sunny day? Not in Scotland!

It's not really the same on a clincher. For one thing, every other cyclist on the road has at least one spare tube. If all my mates rode tubs I suppose the equation would be a bit different. Also, I can patch a tube if I have to, I can fix a chain with a quick link and chain tool, and I can boot all but the most shredded tyre.

It doesn't change the fact that once you've punctured your tub you've got a bike that cannot be regarded as 100% serviceable until a new tyre has been glued on properly. Would you do a 40mph twisty descent on your spare Ugo?

foggymike

Keep it in perspective. This scenario you're presenting will happen, what, once a year? Once every two or three years? So you cut a ride short once a year and ride home steadily, does that really matter?

If you can't get past the worry and throw caution to the wind just get some clinchers. They'll be heavier and not feel quite as nice but it's not going to change your comfort or how fast you ride in any meaningful way. There's not a lot in it so it's not worth agonising over.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

Sunny day? Not in Scotland!

It's not really the same on a clincher. For one thing, every other cyclist on the road has at least one spare tube. If all my mates rode tubs I suppose the equation would be a bit different. Also, I can patch a tube if I have to, I can fix a chain with a quick link and chain tool, and I can boot all but the most shredded tyre.

It doesn't change the fact that once you've punctured your tub you've got a bike that cannot be regarded as 100% serviceable until a new tyre has been glued on properly. Would you do a 40mph twisty descent on your spare Ugo?

If you don't want tubulars, don't buy them... it seems to me the problem is mostly in your head. I use tubular tyres when the weather is good and have not experienced any of your nightmare scenarios

majormantra

I already own tubulars Ugo, I just don't use them for my everyday riding.

You didn't answer my question though.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

I already own tubulars Ugo, I just don't use them for my everyday riding.

You didn't answer my question though.

What question? I have a length of spare tape with me... all this 17 step procedure you see on youtube to fit a tyre is another piece of crxp that scares people off.
Overcomplicating things seems to be the norm these days..

majormantra

This one, although I was assuming you used glue:

Would you do a 40mph twisty descent on your spare Ugo?

So you do tape? Or do you mean you use tape for the spare only?

Tape is appealingly simple but if you believe WW types (open to debate!) then it costs you rolling resistance, so you might as well be on clinchers.

danlikesbikes

foggymike wrote:

Keep it in perspective. This scenario you're presenting will happen, what, once a year? Once every two or three years? So you cut a ride short once a year and ride home steadily, does that really matter?

If you can't get past the worry and throw caution to the wind just get some clinchers. They'll be heavier and not feel quite as nice but it's not going to change your comfort or how fast you ride in any meaningful way. There's not a lot in it so it's worth agonising over.

Cheers for the above, as with me and making the choice is one of being scared of the process of fitting and changing a tub (only been riding 20 years) but you tend to forget that in is not a common thing to happen. I think if I were on clinchers and ran through my spare inner & patched another I would consider my day as perhaps being rather unlucky or road conditions being crap and go home for some time on the rollers so this wouldn't really change being on tubs.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

This one, although I was assuming you used glue:

Would you do a 40mph twisty descent on your spare Ugo?

So you do tape? Or do you mean you use tape for the spare only?

Tape is appealingly simple but if you believe WW types (open to debate!) then it costs you rolling resistance, so you might as well be on clinchers.

I don't care... I just like to ride my Nemesis and my Crono too... I don't do rolling resistance and I don't even take a computer with me... I just like the feel of tubulars... it's a bit like with or without the condom, to give the OP a fair perspective...

majormantra

I'm genuinely interested to know if you could do an on-road repair with tape when the previous tyre had been glued. If you could, then riding the spare wouldn't seem like such an issue.

bernithebiker

MajorMantra wrote:

I'm genuinely interested to know if you could do an on-road repair with tape when the previous tyre had been glued. If you could, then riding the spare wouldn't seem like such an issue.

I don't see why not?

I ride tubs all year round, and punctures are very rare.

I did get one about 5 weeks ago though and I used my can of Decathlon puncture sealant* which inflated the tyre and gave me about 80psi to ride home on. The next day, I pumped it up from 60 to 100psi, and it's been fine ever since.

*tested No. 1 sealant by a French magazine amongst 10 others, even though it's by far the cheapest.

majormantra

bernithebiker wrote:

I don't see why not?

I wasn't sure because when you pull a tub off, the glue left on the rim tends to be a bit lumpy, so I'm not sure how well tape would adhere.

philwint

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Clincher or tubulars, everyone has a story like this. Puncture twice on a clincher and you are in the same position.....

Not at all.

With a clincher puncture I swap to the spare tube and patch the punctured one. In theory I can puncture as many times as I have patches + once for the spare tube

Whether more than one puncture per ride is likely enough to worry about is a different argument. On a particularly unlucky trail center day on my MTB I punctured 5 times*.... I do realize that's almost certainly not going to happen on the road, but still

*twice from the same thorn I failed to find and remove the first time :oops:

Monty Dog

Tubulars puncture less IME - with sealant there's a good chance you can effect a repair without needing to remove the tyre. I'd be more worried about the durability of carbon clincher rims - hit one hard edge / pothole and you'll bust the rim. I've broken two carbon tubular rims on potholes in races, but importantly the wheel was still rideable - with a clincher, a broken sidewall would mean end of ride.

markos1963

I would certainly prefer to descend a Scottish hill at 40mph on carbon tubs rather than carbon clinchers.

Weeman1973

I have bought me a set of used 50mm Carbon Tubulars from ebay which I am hoping will give me an insight into the world of tubs. If I like them & get on OK, I could upgrade later on.

One quick question though - as they are used, they have glue residue on the rims. I am looking to use Tufo tape (with Tufo tubs) so do I need to clean the rim completely first, or will the tape stick to the old glue? If I have got to clean them thoroughly, any ideas what with?

thegreatdivide

See my post on this thread re cleaning carbon rims for tubs

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12905542