First Time Trial tomorrow - how fast to go?

topcattim
topcattim Posts: 766
edited February 2013 in Road general
Clearly, of course, the answer is as fast as possible! :D But I'm interested in knowing what % of max heart rate I should aim to start at. I know my MHR (not from the formula, but from hill testing), so can work out a pace from that. I've been plugging away on the turbo over the winter so am reasonably well trained but don't have the experience to know how to pace myself.
Any adive?
«1

Comments

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    My advice would be to leave your HRM at home. If you've been training over the winter you should have a reasonable idea of the level of effort you can sustain for the duration of the TT.
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    What's the distance?
  • Its a tough one really. You should know how fast you can go from riding on the turbo over the winter, have you done similar distances in training or ridden part of the course?

    Personally I like to ride on feel rather than the numbers as I can zone out a bit and just go for it. My first year I raced I was too concerned with numbers and spent too much time looking at them and working out if I was on pace, above and possibly going to burn out or behind and having to make it back up.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • ju5t1n wrote:
    What's the distance?
    10 miles. According to the power readings from my turbo (not from an SRM but from the turbo itself), I should be able to get round in 26 mins or so. Feels a bit optimistic to me (I can't quite believe the power readings aren't overestimating what I can do), not least because of the weather.
    You should know how fast you can go from riding on the turbo over the winter, have you done similar distances in training or ridden part of the course?
    My training on the turbo has been dictated by power, so although I know what power output I can maintain for 20 minutes and an hour, I'm not so experienced on heart rate, and I don't have access to power readings on the road. I do know that the course is an out and back, and into the wind on the way back, so I know I'll have to try to save something for the second leg. Thanks for the advice about going on feel.
  • TakeTurns
    TakeTurns Posts: 1,075
    If I were relying on H/R. I'd do most of it at mid range Z4 and dip into Z5 near the end(depending on how long you can stay in this zone). So, mostly 85-90% of max H/R moving up towards 90-95%.
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    I'd say

    Wear your HR monitor but don't look at it too much. Just pedal like Fcuk and check your not going over 90% until the last 5 minutes. Don't worry to much about it, set the best time you can and try an beat it next time. Hopefully as the weather improves your times will go down. Weather looks awful tomorrow so good luck and enjoy. Try and stay warm before your start.
  • I'd ride it on feel instead of HR if I were you. Just use HR to see if you're about to blow up or something (if it spikes too fast it's probably a bad sign so you should reevaluate your effort).

    Don't forget to do a nice warmup (really important). Start with a decent effort, but not too much, and ramp the effort up depending on how you feel. You say you did a lot of turbo training so I assume you did some 20 minutes FTP tests or intervals or something like that? If so, pace it about the same (with a little less effort), and use the racing motivation for the extra 5 minutes :wink:

    Good luck!
  • Thanks everyone. Appreciate the advice. Looking forward to the buzz (but not the weather).
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Good luck - but don't expect to nail the pacing first time out. There are probably two ways of getting it wrong:

    1. go too hard and fade before the finish
    2. don't go hard enough and cross the line with plenty left

    If I had to choose one of those, I'd go for option 1 ;)
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    First couple of mins should feel easy, infact your brain will be screaming at you "this is too easy, go faster", but ignore it, most new TT'ers hit the first 2mins far too hard, and suffer for it after about 5mins.

    If it's your first 10, I'd say forget HR, infact, forget looking at a watch or cycle computer at all, and focus on what your body is telling you, after the first couple of mins, push on to threshold effort (very top end of Z4) and hold it as much as you can, once you have completed the turn, accelerate smoothly (there is no point giving it the beans out the saddle in a TT IMO) up to threshold again, but this time push it to just below your redline (just into Z5), and hold it, once you are within about a mile or so of the finish, start increasing the power, you should hit the finish line with nothing left to give.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,427
    What Danowat said plus make sure you get a really good warm up building up to virtually race pace.
  • topcattim wrote:
    My training on the turbo has been dictated by power, so although I know what power output I can maintain for 20 minutes and an hour, I'm not so experienced on heart rate, and I don't have access to power readings on the road. I do know that the course is an out and back, and into the wind on the way back, so I know I'll have to try to save something for the second leg. Thanks for the advice about going on feel.

    Well have a good race - as for the out and back routes I personally tend to find them quite good as on the home leg I seem able to find that bit extra knowing I'm not that far from the end.

    Only other piece of advice I would give is to do a little warm down afterwards & a few stretches as will help with the aches the following day.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    So?

    How did it go?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    So?

    How did it go?

    hmm - maybe he's still out on the course ? ;)
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Nah, he stopped off to help that other guy build up his Bob Jackson.
  • lawrences
    lawrences Posts: 1,011
    Anyone else starting to worry?
  • Imposter wrote:
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    So?

    How did it go?

    hmm - maybe he's still out on the course ? ;)
    :D
    Thanks for the interest and the concern! It was called off due to large amounts of standing water on the road. Really disappointing, but clearly the sensible decision under the circumstances. Another three weeks now until the next one.

    A friend of mine was racing yesterday at Ludgershall, he said it was so cold and icy that his bike froze into top gear!
  • ShutUpLegs
    ShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    topcattim wrote:
    A friend of mine was racing yesterday at Ludgershall, he said it was so cold and icy that his bike froze into top gear!

    I've seen the youtube vids of that, badass is an understatement
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    ShutUpLegs wrote:
    topcattim wrote:
    A friend of mine was racing yesterday at Ludgershall, he said it was so cold and icy that his bike froze into top gear!

    I've seen the youtube vids of that, badass is an understatement

    Ineed it is. The phrase you are looking for is complete lunatics :roll:
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    10 miles. According to the power readings from my turbo (not from an SRM but from the turbo itself), I should be able to get round in 26 mins or so. Feels a bit optimistic to me (I can't quite believe the power readings aren't overestimating what I can do), not least because of the weather.

    My training on the turbo has been dictated by power, so although I know what power output I can maintain for 20 minutes and an hour, I'm not so experienced on heart rate, and I don't have access to power readings on the road. I do know that the course is an out and back, and into the wind on the way back, so I know I'll have to try to save something for the second leg. Thanks for the advice about going on feel.
    If you know what you can manage on the turbo, you should also probably know roughly what your HR is over that period of time..... ???
    Simon
  • If you know what you can manage on the turbo, you should also probably know roughly what your HR is over that period of time..... ???
    Well yes, but isn't there more to it than that? :? I know my average HR over a one hour FTP test, but what I was interested in was how to pace myself over a 10 mile TT. I didn't want to go off too hard and then blow up, but presumably I'm not aiming to be at my threshold hr all the way through from the start...or am I?
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    I do not know the answer but am interested in finding out.

    Given that a typical 10 mile TT is nearer 25 mins than 1hr, one would presume that you can go harder than your 1hr threshold?
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • JackPozzi
    JackPozzi Posts: 1,191
    FWIW in a fairly well paced ten using a steady power my HR climbs fairly steeply (90-168) for the about the first 5 mins and then it levels out and will climb by about another 5bpm or so by the end of the race.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    If you have an SRM, why don't you use it during your TT you should be Able to hold a steady 110%ftp though a 10, eg. If your FTP is 300w, then aim for something around 320/330wAP during your 10 ;)
  • moonshine wrote:
    If you have an SRM, why don't you use it during your TT you should be Able to hold a steady 110%ftp though a 10, eg. If your FTP is 300w, then aim for something around 320/330wAP during your 10 ;)
    Thanks moonshine, I don't have an SRM, but I can make that work from HR over a one hour test, I guess. That's very helpful.
  • ShutUpLegs wrote:
    topcattim wrote:
    A friend of mine was racing yesterday at Ludgershall, he said it was so cold and icy that his bike froze into top gear!

    I've seen the youtube vids of that, badass is an understatement
    Shutuplegs, would you mind posting a link to that youtube clip - I couldn't find it, but would be interested to see it.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    topcattim wrote:
    moonshine wrote:
    If you have an SRM, why don't you use it during your TT you should be Able to hold a steady 110%ftp though a 10, eg. If your FTP is 300w, then aim for something around 320/330wAP during your 10 ;)
    Thanks moonshine, I don't have an SRM, but I can make that work from HR over a one hour test, I guess. That's very helpful.
    Sorry.. I must have mid read an earlier post.
    I race with power and therefore HR is largely irrelevant, however there are my observations from last year.
    Pacing is essential... My max 10 hr is 180-182 at end... Balls out. But the key is pacing. I'm riding steady power @ 320w throughout the effort. At 4 min in, my HR is 155ish, 7 min in, 165, at 10:20 @ the turn, 170, then open the taps, 175@15min, push balls out for the last 2 miles / 5miles, finishing at 180/182. This gives a steady HR increase, with a steady, constant power delivery. Go off too soft & you lose too much time early... Go off to hard & you collapse in the last 2 miles & hemmorage time. Remember you can't win a race in the first 5 min, but you can lose it.
    Resist the temptation to push hard when you feel fresh as it will come home to roost before you finish.
    Good luck.

    Ps... A power meter & coaching has transformed my TTs.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    Ps.. Just read your initial posts... I don't know which turbo with power you are using... But mental note that many, eg. tacx flow) are inconsistent between sessions & are well out compared to a calibrated PM)
    I did a test on a friends Flow using my Powertap sl+. At 300W on my PT, the Flow was indicating almost 400W.
  • themekon
    themekon Posts: 197
    In a ten mile time trial I don't know how you find the time to look at all these monitors, facts and figures. Just get stuck in and go as fast as you can, you will soon find out the pace you can go at. Don't bother with a speed computer either, you will know if you are flying and it will only upset you if you are crawling up a drag.