Seriously America?

VTech

Like I said earlier, I think the states would suit me as a base to bring my kids up. I think in general (and per capita) there are less people choosing to claim state handouts than in the USA.
People in the uk see it as a vocation. (Some)

finchy

VTech wrote:

in the USA ... schooling is better

Really? Everything I've heard about the US education system is that it's absolutely awful, especially for maths and science.

This puts it all into perspective:

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Pap ... ssmann.pdf

VTech

johnfinch wrote:

VTech wrote:

in the USA ... schooling is better

Really? Everything I've heard about the US education system is that it's absolutely awful, especially for maths and science.

This puts it all into perspective:

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Pap ... ssmann.pdf

I was referring to contributed schooling, as parents we would pay towards our children's education, and before the same old members come and say its about money, it's the same as the uk where schooling IS going to cost parents willing or able to put kids through college or university.

VTech

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

ben@31

VTech wrote:

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

The Americans who served in their military get put through college when they leave, a $20,000 thank you bonus and much appreciation.

Ours do not.

VTech

ben@31 wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

The Americans who served in their military get put through college when they leave, a $20,000 thank you bonus and much appreciation.

Ours do not.

Its not an argument you will win with english people (and I say that without malice)
I am English and have no connection with the USA other than work and friends but as a brit I do believe we are brainwashed into believing that our life is better, that we get the best treatment, you often hear about the NHS this, the schooling that etc but in reality we have failed schooling, failed hospitals, failed local government, failed policing.
There really isnt that much going well over here.

Whenever someone would mention the thought of being elsewhere people quickly jump to attack that country with comments that have little weight in truth and cling to the negatives.

Now in reality, I talk about leaving as I like the sun, I like the people and its a good location for work but if push comes to shove im not sure I would ever leave here as I do love where I live now.

pinno

MountainMonster wrote:

...You seemto hate Americans...

Yep, you are right there.

No I do not think that we did no wrong. However, I do not beat myself with a stick because we had a very large and successful empire. There were no benign empires.

Here is a list to put in your pipe and smoke:

You lot came into the 2nd World War at the 11th hour and we paid back our debts right up to the early 2000's.
The Americans continued exploitation of Brazil for example, is linked to the deforrestation because of their debt and because of the insatiable appetite for beef and soya derivatives.
Your foreign policy stinks.
Roosevelt and Stalin signed deals behind Churchills back.
You gave us no support in Aden because it was in Americas interest to break up the British Empire
Obama Llama Ying yang sent Churchills Bust back to the UK. Why? because his grandpappy was locked up by the British - If it wasn't for Churchill, Obama would be dealing with a really Socialist Federal Europe of the most incidious kind where people like him would be deemed 'inferior'
Learn to play Rugby (without padding), Cricket (not silly over grown men playing rounders) and drink tea properly.
Our lot can be thick, but your lot are even thicker.
I resent the hedonism and selfishness that is pervading our society and it comes from accross the pond.
Americas continued expression of 'freedom and Democracy' is an extension of greed and a smokescreen for obligating countries into capitalism on a completely un-level playing field.
Great example of Yankee capitalist imperialism - Ghana. Ghana produced rice. Then the Yanks and the government got together in a deal where the Ghanains bought Uncle Bens rice in exchange for pharmaceuticals. Bang went Ghanas rice industry.
Monsanto - (great company) have sold millions of tons of GM grain to 3rd world countries. In the 3rd world, farmers sold 1 third of the harvest, ate the other third and re-sowed the final third (as they do). Nothing came up the following year as the GM crops are hybrid and now they are locked into an eternal cycle of purchase and/or poverty.
Hundreds of thousands of people have died globally because yankee pharmaceutical companies have fixed prices of drugs, maintained patents and made them un-afordable.
Of the $300 million odd raised for the rebuidling of Haiti by the American population, less than 5% was given to the government, the rest went to American contractors.
We are being/have been dragged very unwillingly into a war between the Christians on the right and the Islamists on the left. Both are fundamentalists, both are intrenched and I want nothing to do with it and I cannot see the difference.
11 people died on a rig in the Gulf of Mexico and the compensation payments are incredible yet no one has been brought to trial for the Union Carbide/Bhopal disaster (genocide actually) you hypocritical cnuts.
I am a Europhile and I am proud of our continued committment to a free Health service and an extensive welfare state. The gap between rich and poor in the UK is growing and its on the back of the winners and loosers Thatcherist/Reaganist neo-cons' 'justified' inequality - at least we are part of a more consciencious socially responsible European ethic. Churchill said that a society must be judged on how it treats its weakest - on that note, America is a poor society.

VTech

Wow, now if you were crazy enough to write that down you could be found guilty of so many crimes.... Ohh, hang on !

Your post is so offensive, I cant imagine anyone actually having the balls to write what you have.

You may be right in what you say but you cant judge all Americans because of some ?
Your "love" of free healthcare is destroying the UK and if Obama lets it go through in the USA will finish that country too, its just not sustainable. FACT !

You are a modern day Alf Garnet sir.

MountainMonster

pinarello001 wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

...You seemto hate Americans...

Yep, you are right there.

No I do not think that we did no wrong. However, I do not beat myself with a stick because we had a very large and successful empire. There were no benign empires.

Here is a list to put in your pipe and smoke

You lot came into the 2nd World War at the 11th hour and we paid back our debts right up to the early 2000's.
The Americans continued exploitation of Brazil for example, is linked to the deforrestation because of their debt and because of the insatiable appetite for beef and soya derivatives.
Your foreign policy stinks.
Roosevelt and Stalin signed deals behind Churchills back.
You gave us no support in Aden because it was in Americas interest to break up the British Empire
Obama Llama Ying yang sent Churchills Bust back to the UK. Why? because his grandpappy was locked up by the British - If it wasn't for Churchill, Obama would be dealing with a really Socialist Federal Europe of the most incidious kind where people like him would be deemed 'inferior'
Learn to play Rugby (without padding), Cricket (not silly over grown men playing rounders) and drink tea properly.
Our lot can be thick, but your lot are even thicker.
I resent the hedonism and selfishness that is pervading our society and it comes from accross the pond.
Americas continued expression of 'freedom and Democracy' is an extension of greed and a smokescreen for obligating countries into capitalism on a completely un-level playing field.
Great example of Yankee capitalist imperialism - Ghana. Ghana produced rice. Then the Yanks and the government got together in a deal where the Ghanains bought Uncle Bens rice in exchange for pharmaceuticals. Bang went Ghanas rice industry.
Monsanto - (great company) have sold millions of tons of GM grain to 3rd world countries. In the 3rd world, farmers sold 1 third of the harvest, ate the other third and re-sowed the final third (as they do). Nothing came up the following year as the GM crops are hybrid and now they are locked into an eternal cycle of purchase and/or poverty.
Hundreds of thousands of people have died globally because yankee pharmaceutical companies have fixed prices of drugs, maintained patents and made them un-afordable.
Of the $300 million odd raised for the rebuidling of Haiti by the American population, less than 5% was given to the government, the rest went to American contractors.
We are being/have been dragged very unwillingly into a war between the Christians on the right and the Islamists on the left. Both are fundamentalists, both are intrenched and I want nothing to do with it and I cannot see the difference.
11 people died on a rig in the Gulf of Mexico and the compensation payments are incredible yet no one has been brought to trial for the Union Carbide/Bhopal disaster (genocide actually) you hypocritical cnuts.
I am a Europhile and I am proud of our continued committment to a free Health service and an extensive welfare state. The gap between rich and poor in the UK is growing and its on the back of the winners and loosers Thatcherist/Reaganist neo-cons' 'justified' inequality - at least we are part of a more consciencious socially responsible European ethic. Churchill said that a society must be judged on how it treats its weakest - on that note, America is a poor society.

There is an equally long and derogatory list of British "achievements" which could be put forth here, but seeing as you are clearly irrational, as well as hypocritical, there is not much point. If you want to talk about how a country treats its weakest you have only to look at your country as well. Social welfare statistics for lower class elderly show lower entitlement and monthly deposits into accounts, and fuel poverty is so strong that only wealthy elderly get the heating they need in winter time. On top of that you have manipulative energy consortiums bumping prices up much higher for pay as you go customers because they are not on a tariff, leading to shockingly high numbers of elderly dying every year due to not getting the heat they desperately need, with little to no government support. That would NEVER happen in the states. The amount of abuse on the welfare system in the UK is staggering. In no other country in the world do so many able bodied young workers get paid a lifetime of free everything just because they do not feel like working. The reason America is so prosperous is not because of Capitalism, it is because we do not strain the system allowing poorly moraled people to sit at home for no reason. If you are able bodied, and can work, after a certain amount of time you MUST work, you will not receive benefits for any longer.

You can pull thousands of examples out of your hat for why America has done bad things, the same for England. At the end of the day the quality of life in America is very good, so your points about how people get treated are nothing more than thin smoke.

You can irrationally hate America for the few flaws it has, but failing to admit to your own countries weaknesses only shows your inherent educational and intellectual failures.

Also, just to make this clear to people reading, I am in England because I love it here, so none of this is directed at anyone personally.

iainment

VTech wrote:

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

Just bugger off then. Less talk more action from you would be appreciated.

VTech

iainment wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

Just bugger off then. Less talk more action from you would be appreciated.

But if I left it would mean the burden on other tax paying Brits would go up to cover my tax bill ?
The abuse from the few idiotic people on the forum is shocking but ill keep posting, ill keep paying my taxes and ill keep getting sore legs because I'm doing what I like and it's hurting like crazy

iainment

VTech wrote:

iainment wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to add, I can put my kids through schooling upto and including higher educational levels for far less in the USA than the same here in England.

Just bugger off then. Less talk more action from you would be appreciated.

But if I left it would mean the burden on other tax paying Brits would go up to cover my tax bill ?
The abuse from the few idiotic people on the forum is shocking but ill keep posting, ill keep paying my taxes and ill keep getting sore legs because I'm doing what I like and it's hurting like crazy

You're a modern day saint - a martyr to your legs.

VTech

Thank you, it's about time I got the deserved recognition.

pinno

Ching ching... Game on.

(We are in BB vtech). Bash Britain all you like, I didn't vote for these fokkers and as far as energy coys are concerned, it was all opened up to private companies and is seriously under regulated. It is a shambles.

On the subject of welfare/unemployment, the capitalist machine needs the cannon fodder for war and in times of economic boom. When there is recession, we no longer need them and they are an economic burden. Read the Spirit level - both the UK and the US have huge inequality and regressive taxation. We live in high cost, low wage societies and those societies who are fairing well with a high standard of living are those with progressive taxation systems. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, iceland, Finland, Germany all have high cost, high wage economies.

Whilst we are at it. The British as a race of people are great, in fact we are really great in a crisis. However, you do get the odd tw4t. The Americans, on the other hand, as a race are complete tw4ts but you do get the odd individual who is A1.

VTech

pinarello001 wrote:

Ching ching... Game on.

(We are in BB vtech). Bash Britain all you like, I didn't vote for these fokkers and as far as energy coys are concerned, it was all opened up to private companies and is seriously under regulated. It is a shambles.

On the subject of welfare/unemployment, the capitalist machine needs the cannon fodder for war and in times of economic boom. When there is recession, we no longer need them and they are an economic burden. Read the Spirit level - both the UK and the US have huge inequality and regressive taxation. We live in high cost, low wage societies and those societies who are fairing well with a high standard of living are those with progressive taxation systems. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, iceland, Finland, Germany all have high cost, high wage economies.

Whilst we are at it. The British as a race of people are great, in fact we are really great in a crisis. However, you do get the odd tw4t. The Americans, on the other hand, as a race are complete tw4ts but you do get the odd individual who is A1.

There is good and bad in all I assure you.
There is also less Great about Britain than there was a generation or two ago. Britain has a new breed of takers that is strangling society and who consistently suggest the way out is to tax the rich more and more but reality suggests that this is counter productive as the rich locate elsewhere and as a result pay no tax here !!
Tax should start at 10%, increase too 30% and stagnate which in turn would mean that the more wealthy pay more as they are happy to pay tax instead of looking for avoidance schemes and therefor society benefits.

But even with that, the stranglehold of benefits and healthcare costs will always be a noose.

iainment

VTech wrote:

Thank you, it's about time I got the deserved recognition.

I still think you should bugger off though.

pinno

Its telling: "Well, the dull drone of the haters means little whilst sipping champagne in first class".

Your back!!

Nope, disagree. Tax the rich at 60% and have a taxation system that taxes from 10% upwards. Pay everybody £65 a week - you'll get it all back in taxation and employers can legally take on people temporarily without phenominal paperwork and the risk of any earnings being deducted from benefits for the potential employee. That will stimulate the economy and the taxes generated can pay for much better schooling, public transport and healthcare.
Close all the tax loopholes. Ultimatum for 'non-dom' residents who hold a UK passport but think that they can come and go and pay nothing - Pay your tax or get citizenship elsewhere and apply for visas to come and stay/work here.

VTech

iainment wrote:

VTech wrote:

Thank you, it's about time I got the deserved recognition.

I still think you should bugger off though.

But who would you argue with then ? :?

pinno

VTech wrote:

iainment wrote:

VTech wrote:

Thank you, it's about time I got the deserved recognition.

I still think you should bugger off though.

But who would you argue with then ? :?

Probably me.

He's from Narden Iyrland, they argue with their shadows when sober. We argue with the shadows only when drunk.

VTech

pinarello001 wrote:

Its telling: "Well, the dull drone of the haters means little whilst sipping champagne in first class".

Your back!!

Nope, disagree. Tax the rich at 60% and have a taxation system that taxes from 10% upwards. Pay everybody £65 a week - you'll get it all back in taxation and employers can legally take on people temporarily without phenominal paperwork and the risk of any earnings being deducted from benefits for the potential employee. That will stimulate the economy and the taxes generated can pay for much better schooling, public transport and healthcare.
Close all the tax loopholes. Ultimatum for 'non-dom' residents who hold a UK passport but think that they can come and go and pay nothing - Pay your tax or get citizenship elsewhere and apply for visas to come and stay/work here.

The only reason the majority of immigrants come here is because of the easy work they can find, by that I mean the ones picking fields, cleaning, driving, digging trenches and many other labour intensive jobs that so many "Great" but lazy brits wont do.
We then spend so much effort moaning about these people saying they are ruining our country because they are taking the jobs the "Great" British people dont want to do.

Its a vile roundabout but facts are facts and we do have to many second, third and forth generation claimants who are happy to sit at home all day and watch as the rest of us work.

I am happy to pay tax, I believe I pay enough, maybe too much but that will always be the case when paying tax but having an ever increasing charge will always make people exile to "calmer waters".

pinno

Where the hell is 'iainment' ? You would think he would get straight back to me after being accused of being from NI.

I thought that he wanted an argument ? I do.

finchy

VTech wrote:

I was referring to contributed schooling, as parents we would pay towards our children's education, and before the same old members come and say its about money, it's the same as the uk where schooling IS going to cost parents willing or able to put kids through college or university.

I'm not sure I get your point here. Are you saying that university or college costs a load of money once you get there, or are you saying that you'll have to pay a load of money to get your sprogs into university in the first place?

finchy

pinarello001 wrote:

I thought that he wanted an argument ? I do.

OK. You're a t1t. :P

VTech

johnfinch wrote:

VTech wrote:

I was referring to contributed schooling, as parents we would pay towards our children's education, and before the same old members come and say its about money, it's the same as the uk where schooling IS going to cost parents willing or able to put kids through college or university.

I'm not sure I get your point here. Are you saying that university or college costs a load of money once you get there, or are you saying that you'll have to pay a load of money to get your sprogs into university in the first place?

What I mean is that for the average kid looking to get to their early 20's with a vocation ahead of them they end up with huge pressure of massive debt. Many start out working life with mortgage size bills which they then spend the next 10-20 years worrying about paying and like the average working man, they struggle to reach potential with all the worry of debt clouding their mind.

It's a real bad situation.

Jez mon

VTech wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

VTech wrote:

I was referring to contributed schooling, as parents we would pay towards our children's education, and before the same old members come and say its about money, it's the same as the uk where schooling IS going to cost parents willing or able to put kids through college or university.

I'm not sure I get your point here. Are you saying that university or college costs a load of money once you get there, or are you saying that you'll have to pay a load of money to get your sprogs into university in the first place?

What I mean is that for the average kid looking to get to their early 20's with a vocation ahead of them they end up with huge pressure of massive debt. Many start out working life with mortgage size bills which they then spend the next 10-20 years worrying about paying and like the average working man, they struggle to reach potential with all the worry of debt clouding their mind.

It's a real bad situation.

Still not sure how this works?

Just take tertiary education. In this country you can attend a global top five university for 9k tuition fees, plus accommodation and board, .

Harvard fees on the other hand...

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.e ... /cost.html

Seem a lot more expensive, now admittedly accommodation and board is included in the bottom figure, and financial aid is available (I'm not totally sure of the break down). The point is, students on both sides of the Atlantic are often under a tremendous debt burden before they graduate.

VTech

Yes of course but I wasnt referring to the top end, just the average and in the UK students are often left in dire straights. I agree the same can be said of the USA but there are more opportunities to end without debt burden.
Friends of mine have given up almost everything to put 2 kids through college and UNI in the uk and the kids are still in debt so thats 2 generations ruined through debt simply because they had a willing to learn. The issue is the lack of apprenticeships, kids these days use college and uni as "something to do" as there are no jobs, its a vicious circle.

Jez mon

Unfortunately, a lot of potential students don't do sufficient research before going to uni, and there are a lot of poor universities, and university courses. I guess I was just lucky in that I have parents with reasonable university educations, who steered me into doing a course which has good employment prospects, taught by a university which is generally well regarded in industry (although this doesn't always get reflected in the rankings!).

VTech

Jez mon wrote:

Unfortunately, a lot of potential students don't do sufficient research before going to uni, and there are a lot of poor universities, and university courses. I guess I was just lucky in that I have parents with reasonable university educations, who steered me into doing a course which has good employment prospects, taught by a university which is generally well regarded in industry (although this doesn't always get reflected in the rankings!).

I think you've hit the nail on the head !
As I said earlier, more often than not, UNI is "something to do" instead of what it was intended for, and thats to achieve a vocation you can see your life taking. Sadly, and more often than not students accept any course just to "get in"
The fact you had graduate parents has obviously stood you well and there is nothing wrong in that.
I have a son with ADHD, he was never going to be a physicist and so we steered him into something he can do well at, we were realistic and its working out well.

finchy

One advantage of living in the UK as opposed to the USA is that we have easy access to all the continental universities with low or non-existent tuition fees and a lower cost of living.

I expect that my son will end up in a Hungarian university 18 years from now.

ben@31

Jez mon wrote:

Still not sure how this works?

Just take tertiary education. In this country you can attend a global top five university for 9k tuition fees, plus accommodation and board, .

Harvard fees on the other hand...

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.e ... /cost.html

Seem a lot more expensive, now admittedly accommodation and board is included in the bottom figure, and financial aid is available (I'm not totally sure of the break down). The point is, students on both sides of the Atlantic are often under a tremendous debt burden before they graduate.

When people have wrote "UK students" in posts, they should remove Scottish students at Scottish Universities.

I believe the cost of tuition fees per year is...

English university £9000
English student at Scottish university £9000
Scottish student at Scottish university £0

Source http://www.ucas.ac.uk/students/studentfinance/


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