Ebay Stolen Bike Petition

danlikesbikes

Some of you may have seen the tweet from John Torode (https://twitter.com/JohnTorode1/status/ ... 4401012736) regarding his stolen bike being sold on Ebay.

It looks like someone has set up a petition for Ebay to make changes to its selling rules, not that I'm saying this is the answer but it is a start. I understand that the suggestion is not perfect but I'm sure that we have all seen at some point some things on Ebay that just don't look right. Some of them may be well be genuine and others dodgy, but am sure that if you have been the victim of a bike theft you would want to do something to try and reduce the likelihood of your prize possession being sold onward.

Anyway thought you might be interested & if so follow this link - http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/e ... n-listings

VTech

eBay do not on the face of worry about such matters as when selling, the seller confirms they own and can legally sell the items being listed.
I have items that are trademarked to me which are being sold on eBay every day. We no longer fight the counterfeit goods as it is futile. The cost to our company each year is well over £200,000 but hey, that's eBay and the British law for you.

Pickled Pig

VTech wrote:

eBay do not on the face of worry about such matters as when selling, the seller confirms they own and can legally sell the items being listed.
I have items that are trademarked to me which are being sold on eBay every day. We no longer fight the counterfeit goods as it is futile. The cost to our company each year is well over £200,000 but hey, that's eBay and the British law for you.

I don't think something as unambiguous as a frame number can be compared to the vagueness of trademarks; Apple have trademarked a phone which has rounded corners, which seems a nonsense to me. I'm not saying your trademarks are so fatuous but a frame number is far more clear cut.

Velonutter

It's a reasonable idea but I have frames that I bought from China that don't have frame numbers, so bit pointless in that respect.

danlikesbikes

Like I said its not a perfect solution to stop stolen bikes from being sold on Ebay, but it is a start.

VTech

Pickled Pig wrote:

VTech wrote:

eBay do not on the face of worry about such matters as when selling, the seller confirms they own and can legally sell the items being listed.
I have items that are trademarked to me which are being sold on eBay every day. We no longer fight the counterfeit goods as it is futile. The cost to our company each year is well over £200,000 but hey, that's eBay and the British law for you.

I don't think something as unambiguous as a frame number can be compared to the vagueness of trademarks; Apple have trademarked a phone which has rounded corners, which seems a nonsense to me. I'm not saying your trademarks are so fatuous but a frame number is far more clear cut.

Mine isnt vague, the seller lists a product which isnt ours and sells it under the same name, the name is trademarked which means this is in breach of UK and European law yet eBay insist on allowing him to sell.
I guess from my point, eBay seems to care about the euro's and not the other aspects.

wishitwasallflat

It may well not be a perfect petition (or solution) - it may well not protect trademarks or make any difference to that issue - it would not be any use for frames with no numbers - ebay may well not care -

BUT

It takes seconds to sign and it certainly will not do any harm and may help someone in the future - I am baffled as to the negative response from some.

danlikesbikes

wishitwasallflat wrote:

It may well not be a perfect petition (or solution) - it may well not protect trademarks or make any difference to that issue - it would not be any use for frames with no numbers - ebay may well not care -

BUT

It takes seconds to sign and it certainly will not do any harm and may help someone in the future - I am baffled as to the negative response from some.

^-^ What he said

VTech

I don't think it's a negative response. In fact the opposite. I would love a champion of rights to work with the likes of eBay. He sad part is that eBay have a lack of care.

giant_man

It's true, they do ...

t4tomo

Velonutter wrote:

It's a reasonable idea but I have frames that I bought from China that don't have frame numbers, so bit pointless in that respect.

Your Chinese Carbon frame probably breaches someone elses patent (given China's complete disregard for patent law) so in that sense if it were stolen, they'd be stealing and reselling something that was already stolen and resold.

I agree that Ebay doesn't seem to care, but isn't Gumtree a bigger offender. At least the majority of items on ebay aren't stolen. Gumtree might as well be called fencemygoods.com.

I'm not sure Torode is going to get any buyer to say oh yes i've just bought your bike, as the buyer then ends up out of pocket.

Also if Torode saw his bike on ebay, why didn't he just buy it and then start tracking the selling down i.e meet to collect in person, with a copper in the background?

bernithebiker

i applaud the idea, and will happily add my name to the petition, but I think the best and most foolproof method to stop all this is the bike passport idea, that has been mentioned before. Just a simple logbook type paper with each bike sold with frame no. etc marked on it.

Then, no logbook, no bike sale on Ebay.

wishitwasallflat

VTech wrote:

I don't think it's a negative response. In fact the opposite. I would love a champion of rights to work with the likes of eBay. He sad part is that eBay have a lack of care.

Please accept my apologies; I misinterpreted your post as being negative to the idea of the petition. I agree eBay don't give a .... but there are several examples of online petitions forcing the hand of those who don't care to take action to at least be able to pretend they do - sometimes the seemingly futile is worth doing.

bernithebiker wrote:

i applaud the idea, and will happily add my name to the petition, but I think the best and most foolproof method to stop all this is the bike passport idea, that has been mentioned before. Just a simple logbook type paper with each bike sold with frame no. etc marked on it.

Then, no logbook, no bike sale on Ebay.

Brilliant - can someone who knows how start a petition for bike log books - would it need to be on the Gov site. I seem to recall if you get a certain number of sigs on some site does there not have to be a debate in parliament?

bikeleasingco

Hello all,

We fully support the initiative being shown here and we'll do everything we can to support it.

So, the petition is signed.

Next, what can ebay actually do and what can we do?

Well, as you know we're in the industry.....and we work with Datatag.

They have a new product being launched (I believe at the end of this month) that will enable people to use a very simple ultraviolet system to put a unique identifyer onto their bike (including components). It will work on everything except raw titanium I believe, so that should include most bikes and components. I'm not aware of costs or anything like that yet.

Datatag also have good connections with the Police. As I see it, a petition will place a certain level of pressure on ebay. A combination of efforts from the industry and from the Police will place an increased pressure.

I'm going to invite Dave from Datatag to join this forum to discuss what you would like them to do to help with this problem.

As I see it, if we can squeeze this problem from both ends e.g. better protection before they are stolen and closing off the routes to market for the used bikes, then the crooks will be left with limited choices for selling the bikes on.

As it is, a crook can get the going rate for a used bike on somewhere like ebay. They're less likely to get a good price elsewhere.

I understand why ebay would be reluctant to place any barriers in the way of someone selling something on their platform. It's a fantastic tool that's a part of our everyday lives now.

However, bike theft is an enormous problem. A few easy to implement steps in their "sell an item" process could make it lot harder to sell a stolen bike.

If a seller had to place at least 1 of 3 identifiers as proof of ownership onto the site, then it could work well:
1 would obviously be the frame number. The police or Datatag have records of these numbers from stolen bikes.
2 could be a unique identifer like the Datatag system
3 could be a receipt as proof of purchase - images of the bike are uploaded already so this should be very easy to put into practice

I am sure that there are other combinations or options that would work equally well.

At the end of the day though, the onus will always be on the buyer to make the checks. As the saying goes, "buyer beware" when purchasing second hand goods.

Anyway, I'll invite Dave from Datatag to get involved with this forum to see what the Police and themselves can do to co-ordinate a good solution with the likes of ebay and others.

danlikesbikes

bikeleasingco wrote:

Hello all,

At the end of the day though, the onus will always be on the buyer to make the checks. As the saying goes, "buyer beware" when purchasing second hand goods.

Thanks for the positive response. However with Ebay it is not always possible to see the bike before the purchase, or where it is posted & some sellers do offer a bought as seen and no return option so its not always as simple as putting the onus on the buyer. Especially where the buyer may have no way of checking if the bike was or was not stolen as there is no simple way to do this. Is similar with cars where if a vehicle is subsequently found to be stolen the police can recover from a genuine honest buyer who has done all the checks.

I do however think if pushed too it will make Ebay more responsible & also perhaps help people who have had bikes stolen more empowered and give them some leverage with Ebay to work with the police to recover the item prior to it being sold onwards.

bikeleasingco

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Thanks for the positive response. However with Ebay it is not always possible to see the bike before the purchase, or where it is posted & some sellers do offer a bought as seen and no return option so its not always as simple as putting the onus on the buyer.

You're most welcome.

Ebay and PayPal have a the ability to offer buyer protection via an escrow system. The way I would envision it would be for the seller to have the onus of taking photos of any serial numbers or identifiers etc and post the on the sale item.

Sold as seen without any information should be a red flag for any buyer. However, an escrow system would enable them to hold the money until the bike is received and confirmed to be as described.

The difficulty then comes when the buyer gets tempted by a ridiculously low price because it is stolen. They may suspect it but just be in denial.

The only way to address that would be for the bikes to have the identifiers on them so that police can identify them easily.

That probably needs to happen at source, in the factory.

Bobbinogs

Signed. It may not be a perfect solution but it would be a start in the right direction (a journey of a 1,000 miles starts with a single step and all that).

Velonutter

bikeleasingco wrote:

Hello all,

We fully support the initiative being shown here and we'll do everything we can to support it.

So, the petition is signed.

Next, what can ebay actually do and what can we do?

Well, as you know we're in the industry.....and we work with Datatag.

They have a new product being launched (I believe at the end of this month) that will enable people to use a very simple ultraviolet system to put a unique identifyer onto their bike (including components). It will work on everything except raw titanium I believe, so that should include most bikes and components. I'm not aware of costs or anything like that yet.

Datatag also have good connections with the Police. As I see it, a petition will place a certain level of pressure on ebay. A combination of efforts from the industry and from the Police will place an increased pressure.

I'm going to invite Dave from Datatag to join this forum to discuss what you would like them to do to help with this problem.

As I see it, if we can squeeze this problem from both ends e.g. better protection before they are stolen and closing off the routes to market for the used bikes, then the crooks will be left with limited choices for selling the bikes on.

As it is, a crook can get the going rate for a used bike on somewhere like ebay. They're less likely to get a good price elsewhere.

I understand why ebay would be reluctant to place any barriers in the way of someone selling something on their platform. It's a fantastic tool that's a part of our everyday lives now.

However, bike theft is an enormous problem. A few easy to implement steps in their "sell an item" process could make it lot harder to sell a stolen bike.

If a seller had to place at least 1 of 3 identifiers as proof of ownership onto the site, then it could work well:
1 would obviously be the frame number. The police or Datatag have records of these numbers from stolen bikes.
2 could be a unique identifer like the Datatag system
3 could be a receipt as proof of purchase - images of the bike are uploaded already so this should be very easy to put into practice

I am sure that there are other combinations or options that would work equally well.

At the end of the day though, the onus will always be on the buyer to make the checks. As the saying goes, "buyer beware" when purchasing second hand goods.

Anyway, I'll invite Dave from Datatag to get involved with this forum to see what the Police and themselves can do to co-ordinate a good solution with the likes of ebay and others.

Much better idea, all of my motorbikes were data tagged as part of the insurance requirement, could never understand why it was never done on a push bike, totally agree that this is the best idea as long as Datatag don't get any silly ideas with costs, if they were clever they could approach all the top retailers and offer it with every new bike.

Once in place all that eBay would have to insist on was at least one photo to include a copy of the etching in order to accept the Auction.

nicklouse

Velonutter wrote:

bikeleasingco wrote:

Hello all,

We fully support the initiative being shown here and we'll do everything we can to support it.

So, the petition is signed.

Next, what can ebay actually do and what can we do?

Well, as you know we're in the industry.....and we work with Datatag.

They have a new product being launched (I believe at the end of this month) that will enable people to use a very simple ultraviolet system to put a unique identifyer onto their bike (including components). It will work on everything except raw titanium I believe, so that should include most bikes and components. I'm not aware of costs or anything like that yet.

Datatag also have good connections with the Police. As I see it, a petition will place a certain level of pressure on ebay. A combination of efforts from the industry and from the Police will place an increased pressure.

I'm going to invite Dave from Datatag to join this forum to discuss what you would like them to do to help with this problem.

As I see it, if we can squeeze this problem from both ends e.g. better protection before they are stolen and closing off the routes to market for the used bikes, then the crooks will be left with limited choices for selling the bikes on.

As it is, a crook can get the going rate for a used bike on somewhere like ebay. They're less likely to get a good price elsewhere.

I understand why ebay would be reluctant to place any barriers in the way of someone selling something on their platform. It's a fantastic tool that's a part of our everyday lives now.

However, bike theft is an enormous problem. A few easy to implement steps in their "sell an item" process could make it lot harder to sell a stolen bike.

If a seller had to place at least 1 of 3 identifiers as proof of ownership onto the site, then it could work well:
1 would obviously be the frame number. The police or Datatag have records of these numbers from stolen bikes.
2 could be a unique identifer like the Datatag system
3 could be a receipt as proof of purchase - images of the bike are uploaded already so this should be very easy to put into practice

I am sure that there are other combinations or options that would work equally well.

At the end of the day though, the onus will always be on the buyer to make the checks. As the saying goes, "buyer beware" when purchasing second hand goods.

Anyway, I'll invite Dave from Datatag to get involved with this forum to see what the Police and themselves can do to co-ordinate a good solution with the likes of ebay and others.

Much better idea, all of my motorbikes were data tagged as part of the insurance requirement, could never understand why it was never done on a push bike, totally agree that this is the best idea as long as Datatag don't get any silly ideas with costs, if they were clever they could approach all the top retailers and offer it with every new bike.

Once in place all that eBay would have to insist on was at least one photo to include a copy of the etching in order to accept the Auction.

what etching on the rims? what etching on the fork? what etching on the bars-STIs etc etc

all that will happen frames will get scrapped and parts sold. they might even make more money.

OK etch.microdot. datatag everything. oh you want to upgrade and sell on your ID parts...... so how is that resolved?

factory fitted.

adds cost at manufacture. will all have to be in the same place. steel one work out what is going on. sorted. steal strip and bin the parts that can not be sold.

IDing bikes more than is done will not stop thefts. might actually make it harder. better seller ID confirmation is a better idea.

personal ID numbers. and you have to use them to register with them and some electronic system to prove it is you.

that will reduce stolen bikes on Ebay. will also help the Tax man.

bike will then be back being sold on the road. harder and slower to sell. less turnover less sales less theft.

carrock

Would it not help if conscientious buyers only bought bikes that have either original purchase receipt or other traceable history? Or are people so blinded by greed that they buy a bike at an unfeasibly cheap price not caring about its provenance?

keef66

Sadly there are too many buyers who fall into the latter category.

navrig

Sorry to be a naysayer.

I am happy to sign however when you see how many people on this forum who are willing to buy counterfeit goods such as sunglasses and jerseys, why should we think that a petition dealing specifically with stolen bikes is going to achieve anything. There seems to be a great deal of hypocrisy.

Perhaps stealing from Oakley etc is not the same as stealing from an individual?

DL Datatag

Sorry to be a little late to this debate - and thanks for inviting me to contribute Paul.

As Paul said, I work for Datatag and yes we have a cycle marking product that we like to think is one of the best ways of deterring thieves.

But I'm also coming at this from the angle of a keen club cyclist and competitor who has also has seen lots of people/friends getting their bikes stolen - so the whole idea of trying to do something about bike theft it is of personal and professional interest.

From what I have read, this debate is all about being able to reliably identify your bike and making sure that the thief is not able to easily de-identify the bike.

The Datatag system works by using layered technologies to give multiple layers of identification. In the new, soon to be launched, cycle system these will include micro-Dots (aprox 1000 per system), a visible tamper evident warning label and some etch stencils and a bottle of UV etching fluid to etch a unique number on the bike – typically both wheel rims, frame, forks, seat post and bars. The etch is virtually invisible to the naked eye but fluoresces under UV light. The fluid etches ‘into’ the surface coating – paint or lacquer (so it works on carbon fibre) and can only be removed by removing the coating – and obviously damaging the bike.

I’ll be the first to say that the Datatag system is NOT a silver bullet guaranteed to stop your bike being stolen. But it is a massive deterrent to thieves who, by their very nature, are idle. Why nick a marked bike and risk being caught when there are so many unmarked bikes to choose from?

And I’m not just making this up. Since 2007 Datatag technology has been used in the plant and agricultural machinery sector to mark all new plant and tractors etc. Buy a new JCB and it comes with Datatag as standard under the name CESAR. Police stats have shown that machines fitted with CESAR are 4 times less likely to be stolen and 6 times more likely to be recovered if they are. In 2012 agricultural machinery theft in the UK fell by 41%.

The success of the CESAR scheme also persuaded the UK motorcycle industry to adopt a similar scheme from this year, called the MASTER Security Scheme.

All new UK motorcycles from March this year will have Datatag fitted as standard.

We know it works, and we keep talking to cycle OEM’s trying to persuade them that offering built in security is a good idea.

We work extensively with Police forces around the UK to mark bikes with Datatag and will continue to do so.

I hope this helps you all understand the technology a little better.

As far as helping identify a bike on e-Bay if it is stolen, well that couldn’t be simpler. I recently returned a bike to a lady in Nottingham who had it stolen from Nottingham station and saw it on e-Bay. Using the Datatag number she was able to positively ID the bike, have it returned and it gave the Police the ammo they needed to undertake further enquiries. Interestingly, the other 100+ machines in the possession of the ‘seller’ could not be so easily identified and were returned to him!

Datatag works. We know it, the thieves know it.

Dave

Scrumple

bikeleasingco wrote:

Anyway, I'll invite Dave from Datatag to get involved with this forum to see what the Police and themselves can do to co-ordinate a good solution with the likes of ebay and others.

No thanks

This is a commercial business that wants to sell something to make money. Like smartwater the UV stuff is next to useless in reality as it is rarely ever checked or seen.
Also, it goes no way to proving the holder has stolen the item as they can't even see it and can claim they bought it for a fair price. Lastly, it does nothing to deter a thief.

The only way to deter a thief is to involve a very identifiable way to mark sold bikes and do it from the point of sale. Even mobile phones get stolen, and they are so identifiable it hurts! And, how does this stop a thief stripping a bike down?

Please keep your business interests out of here

DL Datatag

Sorry you feel like that Scrumple. Yes, we sell the system but I'm really not trying to sell anything; no reference to price and no where am I telling folks to buy it - simply explaining what it is and how it works.

We work with Police all over the UK and frankly any sort of idenfication on a bike is better than none. We'll sign up to a petition to get eBay to play ball, even by simply publishing frame numbers.

Like I said at the start, like you I ride a bike and so do all my mates and we have all been victims of thieving b*****ds. And like you, I'm up for doing anything I can to stop them.
The fact I work for Datatag and know how it works is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

VinceW

Ladies and Gents

as an ex Police Officer, can I perhaps give you an insight into the issues I have faced when investigating cycle thefts. The main issues have always been one of cycle identification and being able to locate an owner. Cycle identification can be done in many ways. Most cycles have a frame number stamped on the crank. However if you spend some time looking at various bikes you will quickly see that some can have three seperate numbers stamped in this location, both in the vertical and horizontal position. Some also have serial numbers on the rear wheel lug, some on the down tube and others by the saddle stem post. I have never been able to find anyone in the industry who has ever been able to explain what all of these various numbers mean, as there does not appear to be any standardisation across the industry as the marking process is unregulated.

So the issue for the Police and the owner is, quite simple. Which is the unique serial number? How unique is the number, is it unique to the UK? is it unique to the make?, or model of a particular cycle? Could the same number be replicated with other producers? I am sure that some owners record what they believe is their frame number and when the cycle is stolen provide it to the Police. This number may not be the same number at the same location when the exact same bike is inspected by the Police. Indeed unless the number is obvious the cycle will be recorded with either ' No number stamped' or simply 'Not found'.

A futher difficulty then arises, that most forces only record frame numbers within their own force area. So if a cycle is stolen and moved out of that force area the chances of it being reunited with its owner are very slim.
A number of bikes are post coded either by stamping or by self destructive labels with permanent mark pen. Both systems although helpful at times are flawed. The first being the person having the cycle coded does not have to prove ownership at the time of marking. Labels used are very readily available and therefore a cunning thief will be able to place a second one directly over the top to disguise the first. Stamped in post codes also corrode very quickly if not protected with paint after stamping. Most even when recently done are hard to read, due to the poor qualitity of stamps used. The process also allows for the the thief with access to similar stamps to either overstamp or to add additional numbers or letters to a Post code to obscure its original stamping.

The best method of identification which deals with all of the above mentioned issues, is to have some kind of formal identification certificate, similar to a V5 for motor vehicles. A system where the information is captured prior to sale would be ideal, with a 24/7 accessable database to confirm details. This will firstly allow the owner to record all of the cycles details, and would be searchable nationally. If three numbers appear to be present on a frame they should all be recorded. An ownership certificate would greatly help in proving ownership either at the point of sale or reported loss.It would also help in locating owners who should be encouraged to supply all of their contact details including an emergency mobile number.

The recording of frame numbers by Ebay sounds easy enough however it would lead to more confusion and in fact could lead to stolen bikes not being identified for the reasons given above. Above all who would Police it? If identication is to be declared, (as has been proposed) then it should be hidden from the public and only supplied to those involved in the investigation.
Remember whatever you choose keep it simple, to make it most effective.

navrig

VinceW wrote:

The best method of identification which deals with all of the above mentioned issues, is to have some kind of formal identification certificate, similar to a V5 for motor vehicles. A system where the information is captured prior to sale would be ideal, with a 24/7 accessable database to confirm details. This will firstly allow the owner to record all of the cycles details, and would be searchable nationally. If three numbers appear to be present on a frame they should all be recorded. An ownership certificate would greatly help in proving ownership either at the point of sale or reported loss.It would also help in locating owners who should be encouraged to supply all of their contact details including an emergency mobile number.

Whilst an ideal system it simply is not affordable for bicycles even the most expensive models.

V5s exist largely for 2 reasons:

Enforcement of legal requirements - MOT and insurance.

Ability to track those who break the law (speeding, hit and run etc).

When you consider the average value of a bike and the lack of regulation with respect to insurance and roadworthiness a centralised system wont work.

I've had two motorbikes which have been datatagged. I bought both 2nd hand and I didn't bother to register a change of ownership. I think the fee was £15 at the time of the first bike. To my mind the little label was the deterrent not the registration so the first owners took the hit cost wise and I got some benefit.

Now if someone started to sell Datatag labels for £10 then I think there could be a market but even then may opportunistic thieves probably don't know what Datatag is.

danlikesbikes

VinceW wrote:

Ladies and Gents


The best method of identification which deals with all of the above mentioned issues, is to have some kind of formal identification certificate, similar to a V5 for motor vehicles. A system where the information is captured prior to sale would be ideal, with a 24/7 accessable database to confirm details. This will firstly allow the owner to record all of the cycles details, and would be searchable nationally. If three numbers appear to be present on a frame they should all be recorded. An ownership certificate would greatly help in proving ownership either at the point of sale or reported loss.It would also help in locating owners who should be encouraged to supply all of their contact details including an emergency mobile number.

Thanks for joining in the debate & welcome to the forum.

Your above suggestion does make sense on paper & is one I would be in favour of as it would certainly prove a simple way to check for stolen bikes, in addition would also show ownership & give a fair degree of history to the bike for any potential buyer.

However the cost of introducing & maintaining such as system would I fear be so high that no one would want to take on the implementation. Unless the Government were to say to take the funds out of taxation applied to cycles as a way of reducing the long term costs of crime fighting. Though again I am not sure this would be financially viable as it would only be applicable to newly made cycles & would require some additional manufacturing costs for UK sale bikes only.

The recording of frame numbers by Ebay sounds easy enough however it would lead to more confusion and in fact could lead to stolen bikes not being identified for the reasons given above. Above all who would Police it? If identication is to be declared, (as has been proposed) then it should be hidden from the public and only supplied to those involved in the investigation.
Remember whatever you choose keep it simple, to make it most effective.

I don't actually think the recording of frame numbers by Ebay would make anyones job harder for the following reasons;
1) as a owner of bike that has been stolen it would give you a simple way to check if your bike had been listed on Ebay
2) as the owner of a bike you have identified on Ebay it would give you ample evidence to speak to the police and involve them in the recovery - subject to the owner have sufficient evidence that they were the owner of the bike in question.
3) the police would have another "string to their bow" when applying to Ebay via their SPoc & RIO's who have access to the LEP system allowing the police access to active items for 30 days & all listings for 0 days

Whilst I admin the Ebay idea is not idea in any way & may not apply to some frames, it would be simple change for Ebay to make as in their sale section they have drop down boxes for bike type, wheel size, material, colour etc So adding in another box for frame number is quite a simple IT change & making ad's then require a photo of the frame number would be quite simple, if you see an add with a "dodgy" frame number not matching the photo its simple to report to Ebay. Or if Ebay did not want to make this a hard and fast rule, then a simple common sense approach would be if you are a genuine seller/buyer you add a photo even though its not a rule of selling as a way of showing how genuine you are.

diy

I think there is a flaw here.

Advertising frame numbers in this way would give crooks a database of legit frame numbers to copy.

Its a very useful thing for a crook to be able to search for a matching bike's frame no. to clone.

sorry but this one needs to go back in the box of good ideas.

danlikesbikes

diy wrote:

I think there is a flaw here.

Advertising frame numbers in this way would give crooks a database of legit frame numbers to copy.

Its a very useful thing for a crook to be able to search for a matching bike's frame no. to clone.

sorry but this one needs to go back in the box of good ideas.

That is a fair point & one that has some merit. However is it not like a car reg number & vin number as if a thief was that determined and wanting to steal & clone a cycle or a car for that matter they would.

I know it is a bit different with a cycle as no V5 but still think as a low cost initiative with a potential high deterrent and better aid to recovery its worth some merit, though have to admit it does have its flaws.

diy

Yes having both the Vin no and the reg number along with the spec of the car is a very useful thing, which is why people tend not to advertise them. The problem bikes have is they can be taken apart with ease. A stolen bike can be stripped and sold for parts less the frame, for probably 70% of the value of the whole bike.

I would have thought getting buyers to adhere to basic things like:
- checking title from the seller - original receipt or purchase receipt, manuals etc
- verifying their name and address and getting them to sign a bill of sale (I always do this)
- checking basic knowledge about the bike

ebay could help here by prompting sellers to specify proof of ownership details.

there is enough of a market of legit bikes out there that you don't need to buy from people selling on behalf of a mate or people who have bought from someone unusual and then sold on quick. I actually think the issue of counterfeit parts is far worse than stolen bikes. I have certainly lost confidence in ebay when looking for nearly new components.