Warranty claim - Opinions wanted.

n1ppy

Looking for some opinions and thoughts about the following warranty claim. It’s been going on a while but I’ll keep it short!

I bought one of the first Commencal Meta SX’s in April last year. I noticed the underside of the shock was rubbing on the frame (seems the weld under the shock is too high), this damaged the outer casing of the shock and has worn part of the weld down.

I won’t bore you with the whole process and timings but early in the process both Commencal and Decade verbally stated that it would be a simply frame replacement under warranty, apparently they had a couple of others with the same issue. I've now been without the bike for 3 months and have had to constantly chase both Decade and Commencal for an answer, which I received today. Rather than replacing the frame, Commencal’s offer is to take the frame back and repair it by filing the offending weld down. They have stated that this is all they can offer.

I can see how this would resolve the problem but is this acceptable on a £3500 bike? I can’t decide if this is a reasonable offer and I should just get it sorted so I can get the bike back, or are they being totally unreasonable forcing me to accept a repaired frame.

Friend’s reactions have all been that it’s an insulting offer but I would be grateful for a few more opinions.

Thanks.

cooldad

If it solves the problem, yes - probably what they should have done before selling them.
What about the shock.

ilovedirt

They don't necessarily have to replace the frame if they can repair it, so long as what they do sorts the problem and they replace the shock then there's not a lot to complain about. However 3 months is rather taking the piss.

n1ppy

They haven't mentioned the shock yet and this is one of the questions I have now asked them. I understand they only have to repair it, but filing a weld down just doesn't feel right. I'm also concerned about it's resale value, would you buy a second hand frame that's been repaired, even if it was by the original manufacturer?

Briggo

n1ppy wrote:

They haven't mentioned the shock yet and this is one of the questions I have now asked them. I understand they only have to repair it, but filing a weld down just doesn't feel right. I'm also concerned about it's resale value, would you buy a second hand frame that's been repaired, even if it was by the original manufacturer?

It's hardly a cracked and repaired frame, it's filling down a weld, so yes I would.

I think it would seem unreasonable to expect a whole new frame, but 3 months to resolve is a joke in itself.

The Rookie

Not fit for purpose, reject the bike, demand a full refund from the seller, Sale of Goods Act.

If you still want one, then go buy a new one!

danlikesbikes

Its quite common for manufactures to weld, file this down to basically tidy it up & then paint. Obviously this depends on how bad the damage was in the first place. But you are perfectly entitled to not accept what they are saying upfront and demand a replacement. Or you could let them do the fix and see if you can see it & if it still puts you off your rights are the same and you go back to asking for a replacement frame or refund.

As the beginner states you can use the Sale of Goods Act - http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/t ... aexplained

n1ppy

Thanks for the replies, it's interesting that peoples views are split as I keep changing my mind. Just had another email from Commencal which makes for interesting reading!

They usually ask the customer to do it and they wont replace the damaged shock!

It's the best we can do as for this type of problem, we do not replace the frame and we generally ask our customer to grind the chainstay. For you, we will do it by ourself and we are working to find a replacement chainstay in order to provide the best service possible. Actually, we are not sure to be able to replace the chainstay but we will do all our best to do it.

Without the shipping time, it will take us one week to fix your frame.

We are not able to fix the shock.

We can offer you a jersey in compensation of the delays in the reparation of your frame.

danlikesbikes

Does sound like they are trying to back out of this slowly then? As you said they admitted they had had a few frame previously with similar damage.

Perhaps now you should consider it not fit for purpose and request a full refund. Though you might want to have a read of the link in my previous post & email them back first outlining your issues and suggesting that as they can not fix the problem you would like a full refund. Be nice and polite but firm enough to suggest that it is their obligation under the sale of goods act & you would hate to get trading standards involved in a simple dispute.

n1ppy

Thanks for the link, I think I might be going down the refund route.

dmorton

Where did you buy the bike from? If it is from retailer then you should go back to them first. You've got stronger rights under the Sale of Goods Act to leverage against the retailer who sold you the bike. A Warranty/Guarantee should be seen as a backup as these are provided by the manufacturer but at their discretion. The Sale of Goods Act is law, the retailer is obliged to help you out

The Rookie

Not replacing a shock damaged by their initial shoddy work is inexcuseable, from all I've heard about them I don't think I am ever getting a Commie!

supersonic

This is all to do with the sale of goods act, the warranty is irrelevant at this point in time. However as you have had the goods for several months, you will be deemed to have accepted the goods.

I assume you first went via the retailer. You have discovered a fault and reported it. They have admitted there is a fault. They are liable to to replace or repair the goods in a reasonable amount of time. This is the relevant section:

If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) for any of the reasons outlined and the customer has accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to claim a repair or replacement of the goods in the first instance.

If either a repair or replacement is not possible, or the cost is greater than the value of the item ( disproportionately costly ), or the customer claims either option is taking an unreasonable amount of time or is causing unreasonable inconvenience, the customer is then entitled to

_ keep the goods and claim a price reduction from the retailer to compensate them for the fault in the goods - this would be the difference between the value of the product in perfect condition and the value of the product in the faulty condition, or
_ return the goods and rescind the contract . This would mean that the customer returns the goods and you provide a partial refund, calculated to reflect the benefit the customer has received from the product.

Where a customer is entitled to repair or replacement because they have accepted the goods, they can claim price reduction or partial refund if the repair or replacement is

taking an unreasonable time, or
causing an unreasonable inconvenience, or
if the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.

The repair is a reasonable remedy, they have every right to offer you that. However the time taken is not reasonable. So your options are to claim compensation, or rescind the contract.

But note your contract is with the RETAILER.

Oh, and they should fix the shock too.

The Rookie

Not sure I quite agree, we don't know how long he had it before it was reported (circa 6 months?) which may be too short to be classed as acceptance.

I agree though that under SoGA that includes any item 'damaged' which would include the shock. Also 3 months for the work they are now offering is a joke when it's a days work to file and then another couple to spray it up.

supersonic

Acceptance is usually 2 weeks! Or at most a month. Is a grey area, but that is what most courts decide. Once you have the goods and start using them (or even if you don't use them, but keep them), you accept them, unless you immediately discover a fault (or one crops up a very short time after using them).

The Rookie

It is grey, in this case the fault would only become apparent over a period of time and usage, as such acceptance can be held (by a court) to not occur until that has occured.....the usual issue with acceptance is faults that should be readily obvious (first usage) which this is not.....

However the OP seems to want the bike back anyway, so it's just a case of getting them to do the right tihing.

n1ppy

I reported it to the shop after about 1 month, which was as soon as I spotted it. They took photos, showed Commencal (happened to be going to a product launch) and sent them to Decade. They both said to carry on riding it as the photos were sufficient. Although both the shop and myself have been chasing, things didn't really get moving until Decade had the frame and that is now 3 months ago!

The Rookie

Within a month is ceratinly not acceptance then.....

I'd be getting very bolshy by now, like money back or a properly fixed bike (new shock), you could try an NBA (Notice Before (legal) Action) to the selling dealer (it has to be them) giving them 28 days to return the bike in an acceptable condition (define that at what you are happy with - be precise) or a full refund.

I would imagine the damage to the shock got worse after reporting it, so emphasise that further damage was caused by you doing what they told you to do, so it is wholly their responsibility to fix it.

n1ppy

Thanks for everyone's help and replies.

After a few bolshy emails to Commencal earlier today it now transpires that from the photos they thought the shock was only rubbing on the paint (although emails from me stated otherwise), they now want the frame back to assess it first hand! Communication (or lack of it) has been the most frustration part of this whole process.

dmorton

n1ppy

The shop are passing the buck here. They should have sorted this, your contract of sale is with them. You're doing their leg work in dealing with Commencal direct and letting them off the hook

n1ppy

I know, and they did initially, but I have more time and motivation to keep pestering. It also removed one level of communication.

If anyone has to go through the same process I would recommend trying to speak to the manufacturer direct, they don't like it but things seem to happen quicker.

supersonic

It may make things happen quicker to start, but they have no contract with you and are doing it on their own terms - hence all the messing about now!

I'd be straight back to the shop. You have evidence from Commencal themselves that show it is faulty. Ask them to offer a refund or quick repair. Tell them the problems you have had dealing directly, and remind them politely about the SOGA and how you are entitled to have this sorted quickly.

supersonic

in this case the fault would only become apparent over a period of time and usage, as such acceptance can be held (by a court) to not occur until that has occured.....the usual issue with acceptance is faults that should be readily obvious (first usage) which this is not.....

All goods that develop any fault within the first 6 months of ownership are deemed to be faults that were inherent when manufactured (unless the retailer can prove otherwise), and then they have a right to repair or replace the goods. At that stage the goods are usually said to have been accepted (well after the grey few weeks lol).
Sadly the acceptance still applies if you have owned the goods for so long, at least I have never seen any reports otherwise.

dmorton

Here explains the Sale of Goods Act:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act/

Hob Nob

It might be worth asking on the Commencal Owners site, as I think someone from Decade uses it too.

It's a common 'issue' with them (happens on the AM as well - same frame), in fact it's happened to my Mrs's frame.

Doesn't bother me to be honest, it's only cosmetic.

n1ppy

Thanks, I've already posted on there.

When you say cosmetic, has it just rubbed the paint? Mine has gone beyond the paint and worn part of the weld away. I wouldn't be quite so concerned if it was just the paint, although this still shouldn't happen.

DedeSav

Hi All,

On our first production of Meta bike, a few frames have the rear shock who touch the chainstay at full travel. Worldwide, we had around 12 frames with this. As the movement between the shock and the chainstay is not direct, in most of the claim, the rear shock only touch the paint so there is no damage on the shock or on the frame.
To our customers, we propose to grind the chainstay, send touch-up paint and a gift to apologize.

In this case, we apologize for the important lack of communication between the shop/our distributor and us. Now, we will do all our best to find a solution for this customer but we will wait to receive the frame to analyse it.

Our job is to make our customer happy to ride on our bike, as we pratice a mechanical sport, sometimes, there is problem and we work to solve it. Even if we are not perfect, we are open to the discussion and we always try to find solution. We are rider too, we know it's hard to wait 3 month without a bike and it's not a pleasure for us.

If you have any questions, go ahead.

jérôme
After sales service Commençal.

cooldad

See post above yours. If you know there's a problem, and it's only a few bikes, why not just sort them out.
Your solution is to get the customer to grind the weld down and you'll kindly send them some touch up paint and a 'gift'. Seriously? Like a crappy cap or something?
I wonder how many people would never consider buying a Commencal after reading a thread like this?
How to waste a fortune in marketing.

Or maybe I'm missing something in the translation.

louthepoo

I can't believe that's a genuine post from commençal, grind it down yourself and paint it for us too!!! If there's a worse case of customer service I'd like to see it! It's make me not want to have anything from them!

Myster101

louthepoo wrote:

I can't believe that's a genuine post from commençal, grind it down yourself and paint it for us too!!! If there's a worse case of customer service I'd like to see it! It's make me not want to have anything from them!

+1, grind the chainstay yourself then touch it up with paint :shock: :shock:

Great marketing :roll: , seriously get it sorted quickly or you run the risk of loosing a lot of customers.

supersonic

Commencal don't have to deal with the customer - the shops does. The shop should be sorting this.