HS2

tiredofwhiners

Frank the tank wrote:

You hate the public sector.

Not so. I hate the bits that have to do anything to time or cost and fail miserably at every turn with zero consequences for the morons in charge. The list is endless. I'm okay with firemen, police and the nurses and doctors of the NHS but not so much as I fancy paying a huge amount to subsidise their pensions. The rest are a waste of space. There is nothing so badly off that the public sector could rescue it.

PS You'll find the railways were built by the private sector and condemned to oblivion from the day they were nationalised.

finchy

tiredofwhiners wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

You hate the public sector.

Not so. I hate the bits that have to do anything to time or cost and fail miserably at every turn with zero consequences for the morons in charge. The list is endless. I'm okay with firemen, police and the nurses and doctors of the NHS but not so much as I fancy paying a huge amount to subsidise their pensions. The rest are a waste of space. There is nothing so badly off that the public sector could rescue it.

PS You'll find the railways were built by the private sector and condemned to oblivion from the day they were nationalised.

The railways were nationalised because the private companies which ran them were dying on their feet.

Genau

johnfinch wrote:

tiredofwhiners wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

You hate the public sector.

The railways were nationalised because the private companies which ran them were dying on their feet.

The railways were nationalised because it was cheaper to do that than to pay compensation for war damage.

rolf_f

Genau wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

tiredofwhiners wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

You hate the public sector.

The railways were nationalised because the private companies which ran them were dying on their feet.

The railways were nationalised because it was cheaper to do that than to pay compensation for war damage.

The process of Nationalising the railways began in 1923. Even back then it was understood that all the small companies were fundamentally inefficient so they were amalgamated into the big four regional companies. This was always a precursor to eventual full Nationalisation. Now we've forgotten all that and seem to be under the impression that the Victorian approach is better (albeit without the advantages that that approach had at that particular time - ie getting the network constructed). It's ironic and a bit depressing - it took a quarter of a century to get the railways Nationalised last time and I daresay it will take the same amount of time to do it again this time. All a bit needless.

@tiredofwhiners - you should stop with your endless whining! It's all very Daily Mail to love the firemen, police, docotrs and nurses but just because they are at the cuddly end of the public sector doesn't mean that they are any more important or useful than the less cuddly parts.

tiredofwhiners

Rolf F wrote:

@tiredofwhiners - you should stop with your endless whining! It's all very Daily Mail to love the firemen, police, docotrs and nurses but just because they are at the cuddly end of the public sector doesn't mean that they are any more important or useful than the less cuddly parts.

C'mon - there are huge swathes of admin folks in the public sector we could automate and do without entirely. Flat rate taxes and get ride of half of HMRC. Look at the talk about flat rate pensions - did you realise that the reason that it can be paid for is that by flat rating it, you can get ride of the hordes of means testing staff that Gordon Brown brought into the HMRC. Means testing sounds sensible until you realise half of HMRC is doing means testing and massively increasing the cost and reducing the payout and increasing taxes.

But as I said earlier, its not about what or how they do it, but that when they f*ck up, there are no consequences. HMRC get millions of tax returns wrong, nothing happens to the morons who did it wrong. Local councils make a mess of just about everything - nothing happens.

I say nothing happens when we all know that it results in higher tax bills to put things right. It'd be nice to see some actual sackings for incompetence amongst public 'servants' but when was the last time that happened other than when a child dies ?

Or for the NHS, 1200 people die unnecessarily in the Stafford Hospitals and nobody is at fault, and nobody loses their job. Not a single person. Nobody is guilty. Nobody is accountable. And you defend the public sector ? At one time people used to ask if they had to kill someone to get something done whereas in the NHS even thats not enough.

secretsam

tiredofwhiners wrote:

C'mon - there are huge swathes of admin folks in the public sector we could automate and do without entirely. Flat rate taxes and get ride of half of HMRC. True - would you vote for it? Look at the talk about flat rate pensions - did you realise that the reason that it can be paid for is that by flat rating it, you can get ride of the hordes of means testing staff that Gordon Brown brought into the HMRC. Means testing sounds sensible until you realise half of HMRC is doing means testing and massively increasing the cost and reducing the payout and increasing taxes. Ah, means testing. The alternative is universal benefits, where people who don't need/deserve the benefits get them anyway

But as I said earlier, its not about what or how they do it, but that when they f*ck up, there are no consequences I think you'll find there are, but I take your point. HMRC get millions of tax returns wrong, nothing happens to the morons who did it wrong They also get a lot right, and actually the tax return is down to the individual, not HMRC. Local councils make a mess of just about everything - nothing happens Yes, the appalling mess they made when they emptied my bin this morning, lit my road, fixed the road that leads onto my road, provided my kids' education and provided the police to keep us safe is quite appalling.

I say nothing happens when we all know that it results in higher tax bills to put things right. It'd be nice to see some actual sackings for incompetence amongst public 'servants' but when was the last time that happened other than when a child dies ?Fair point, but I raise you bank chiefs who f***ed our economy single-handed then walked off with fat paychecks

Or for the NHS, 1200 people die unnecessarily in the Stafford Hospitals and nobody is at fault, and nobody loses their job Quite a few people lost their jobs, actually, although not necessarily the right people. Not a single person. Nobody is guilty. Nobody is accountable. And you defend the public sector ?It rather looks like it At one time people used to ask if they had to kill someone to get something done whereas in the NHS even thats not enough.Think you've got a bit over-excited here, perhaps see your GP for some pills (he or she is probably not employed by the public sector, FACT!!! So you're safe!!!!

ben@31

SecretSam wrote:

2. You seriously would not believe some of the lovely countryside that will be desecrated by it

How wide is the UK and how wide is a railway line?

I've seen this argument about the construction of roads. The stupid look at a roadmap and think the nation is covered in tarmac. Somebody please tell them the maps aren't drawn to scale, otherwise the M1 would be a few miles wide. If they were really drawn to scale the roads would be too narrow to see.

ben@31

Where is the £33 billion coming from?

We are already £1,127,573,093,010 in debt

nope... £1,127,573,310,684 in debt

nope... £1,127,573,462,182 in debt

and we need to pay it back, with £44.8 billion worth of interest.

http://www.debtbombshell.com

capt_slog

ben@31 wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

2. You seriously would not believe some of the lovely countryside that will be desecrated by it

How wide is the UK and how wide is a railway line?

I've seen this argument about the construction of roads. The stupid look at a roadmap and think the nation is covered in tarmac. Somebody please tell them the maps aren't drawn to scale, otherwise the M1 would be a few miles wide. If they were really drawn to scale the roads would be too narrow to see.

I've spent ages looking for giant letter in fields, they can never be found but they're on the maps! :roll:

ben@31

Capt Slog wrote:

I've spent ages looking for giant letter in fields, they can never be found but they're on the maps! :roll:

Only our special American friends need a reminder of where they are.

secretsam

ben@31 wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

2. You seriously would not believe some of the lovely countryside that will be desecrated by it

How wide is the UK and how wide is a railway line?

I've seen this argument about the construction of roads. The stupid look at a roadmap and think the nation is covered in tarmac. Somebody please tell them the maps aren't drawn to scale, otherwise the M1 would be a few miles wide. If they were really drawn to scale the roads would be too narrow to see.

Say that when it goes through your back garden

markos1963

tiredofwhiners wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

You hate the public sector.

Not so. I hate the bits that have to do anything to time or cost and fail miserably at every turn with zero consequences for the morons in charge. The list is endless. I'm okay with firemen, police and the nurses and doctors of the NHS but not so much as I fancy paying a huge amount to subsidise their pensions. The rest are a waste of space. There is nothing so badly off that the public sector could rescue it.

PS You'll find the railways were built by the private sector and condemned to oblivion from the day they were nationalised.

If privatisation has been so successful then why is the subsidy gone up five fold then?