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Saw a motorbike crash this morning

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  • graeme_s-2graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    The VW driver also commented how difficult pulling out was in the mornings with the queuing traffic and all the motorbikes and cyclists filtering. He also said that in the past he had been a motorcyclist and done a lot of cycling.

    As for the motorcyclist, the first I saw of him he was flying sideways through the air. I have literally no idea how far out he was from traffic he was passing, how fast he was going or how much attention he was paying to what was going on around him. He could have been stationary and the VW guy just drove out and smashed into him, or he could have been bombing along at 60mph, clipping wing mirrors with his elbow and with his eyes shut.

    I left my business card this morning with the VW driver (the motorcyclist was still lying on the ground when I left and the Police weren't there yet), so just to be on the safe side I rang the Police and gave them my details. I can't add a huge amount as a witness (and I told them that), and there were other people who had a better view than me who also left their details, but I know I'd have appreciated anybody at all coming forwards when I've been knocked off in the past. I'm still going through a claim with the MIB from an incident that took place 4 years ago a few metres from the crash this morning where at one point the MIB tried to claim the incident didn't occur at all (luckily a QC disagreed with them).
  • Kieran_BurnsKieran_Burns Posts: 10,052
    veronese68 wrote:
    veronese68 wrote:
    But isn't that why we ride 2 wheeled vehicles. How many bicycles do you see sitting in stationary traffic? Drivers should look for passing bicycles or motorcycles when pulling across a line of traffic. As stated in the OP the driver lives there and must see the stationary traffic with bikes passing it every morning, yet still failed to look.
    We don't know how careful the biker was in this instance. But I find it incredible to think that a person filtering carefully that gets sideswiped by some idiot not looking should have to accept any liability. I know that's what your link says, but I don't have to like it. That's almost saying that you deserve some of the blame for being stupid enough to ride something with 2 wheels.

    Congratulations. You can now read the Daily Mail.
    That did need the extreme sarcasm font. I know that not what Sketchley's saying. Besides, what's wrong with the Daily Fail?*

    * more sarcasm

    I may have missed a :wink: from my post.

    Admittedly, it's very difficult to type deadpan.
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  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 23,751 Lives Here
    veronese68 wrote:
    veronese68 wrote:
    But isn't that why we ride 2 wheeled vehicles. How many bicycles do you see sitting in stationary traffic? Drivers should look for passing bicycles or motorcycles when pulling across a line of traffic. As stated in the OP the driver lives there and must see the stationary traffic with bikes passing it every morning, yet still failed to look.
    We don't know how careful the biker was in this instance. But I find it incredible to think that a person filtering carefully that gets sideswiped by some idiot not looking should have to accept any liability. I know that's what your link says, but I don't have to like it. That's almost saying that you deserve some of the blame for being stupid enough to ride something with 2 wheels.

    Congratulations. You can now read the Daily Mail.
    That did need the extreme sarcasm font. I know that not what Sketchley's saying. Besides, what's wrong with the Daily Fail?*

    * more sarcasm

    I may have missed a :wink: from my post.

    Admittedly, it's very difficult to type deadpan.
    No problem, I presumed it was tongue in cheek.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 23,751 Lives Here
    Daz555 wrote:
    Bikers and cyclists have every right to progress through stationary traffic. They just need to be responsible. I have seen bikers cross junctions whilst filtering at 30mph - clearly stupid.

    However a responsible two wheeler who is filtering past stationary traffic deserves the full protection of the law.

    I'm a biker and a cyclist and I always aim to make progress. It is important to try and be acutely aware of the dangers at junctions and where gaps appear in the queue of slow or stationary traffic on either side of a carriageway - always assume some idiot is about to appear from, or jump into, that gap.

    The key here is that any road user who is crossing, joining, or leaving an area of stationary or slow moving traffic must ASSUME that a cyclist or biker may be filtering at that time.
    Exactly, well put.
  • cookdncookdn Posts: 410
    davmaggs wrote:
    I know a former motorcyclist that ended up in a wheelchair because of a moron that thought leaving her driveway gave her right of way, and there wasn't even any filtering going on.

    Maybe she previously lived here?

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  • cookdncookdn Posts: 410
    Sketchley wrote:
    Some more stuff on this

    From http://www.theinjurylawyers.co.uk/injur ... d-the-law/
    In Fagan V Jeffers a motor scooter, riding on the inside of two lanes of stationary traffic, collided witha car turning right across a gap created by “Keep Clear” markings painted on the carriageway. It was held by the Judge that each driver was equally to blame. The motorcyclist was negligent as he had failed to keep a look out for turning traffic whislt undertaking a dangerous manoeuvre. The car driver was also at fault as he should have realised that there had been sufficient room for a two-wheeled vehicle to pass between the near-side and the kerb.

    Cars emerging from a junction into the path of a motorcycle

    As a motorcyclist you are afforded specific protection by R. 187 of the Highway Code:

    “It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions or roundabouts” Always look out for them when you are emerging from a junction”.

    Fault nearly always lies with the emerging motorist in these type of claims, unless the motorcyclist on the major road is speeding or overtaking a line of stationary traffic when contributory negligence usually falls anywhere between 50% – 80%.

    Food for thought when filtering on the bike....

    To me the key bit in the case law you quote is this:
    In Fagan V Jeffers a motor scooter, riding on the inside of two lanes of stationary traffic, collided with a car turning right across a gap created by “Keep Clear” markings painted on the carriageway.

    Clearly the motorcyclist in Fagan V Jeffers should have reasonably anticipated a vehicle turning across his path at the point of the collision yet liability is still shared. The motorcyclist in the OPs description was not crossing such a gap.

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    Boardman CX Team
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