Supplements

daviesee

For those of you who use them, here is something to ponder over.
http://news.sky.com/story/1044935/tragi ... -stimulant



Check what you are buying.

danlikesbikes

Interesting if a little scary - not that I have taken any of it myself or anything similar.

richsieb

Scary thing is, I got offered this stuff by a friend at an athletics competition last year, Someone i knew took it and did the 100m final on soon after, but I don't think he knew how dangerous it really was.

danlikesbikes

I take a few things no of which a illegal or near the banned list. But only after some careful consideration & checking out that the ingredients are, simply as some items you see are not a super supplement just a sugar based item, or packed with green tea, caffeine etc all of which you should be able to get from a relatively healthy diet.

daviesee

Danlikesbikes wrote:

I take a few things no of which a illegal or near the banned list. But only after some careful consideration & checking out that the ingredients are, simply as some items you see are not a super supplement just a sugar based item, or packed with green tea, caffeine etc all of which you should be able to get from a relatively healthy diet.

That's all fine, well and good.
But when Claire Squires took hers they were legal and weren't banned substances.
Buyer beware.

RDW

Apparently DMAA (= methylhexanamine) was first introduced as a dietary supplement by Patrick Arnold, the rogue chemist who synthesised the drugs at the centre of the BALCO doping scandal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold

When ephedrine was banned, he chose DMAA as a substitute, giving it a bogus botanical name to make out it was a 'natural product', and started flogging it through his company. It ended up in a lot of supplements and seems to have slipped past the regulators until recently.

FransJacques

It's sad that someone died in the pursuit of fitness, but I can't tell from the story where it says she was as unsuspecting as you suggest.

She took something in a race she NEVER took before, never in training to see how it affects her, in an effort to beat a target time. She knew, or hoped anyway, that it would give her a "boost". Doesn't sound very "unsuspecting" to me. Sounds ill-informed. It was also on a WADA banned list. Whatever the intention she paid for it with her life.

But seriously, how can 1 scoop of something that's not strichnine (sp) or plutonium-236 kill you? Bizarre.

I've made the choice to stay away from any supplements that are not maltodextrin, protein, caffeine, or L-somethingoranother. Only b/c I don't have to time to get informed about it hence am scared of it...

daviesee

FransJacques wrote:

.....But seriously, how can 1 scoop of something that's not strichnine (sp) or plutonium-236 kill you? Bizarre.
I've made the choice to stay away from any supplements that are not maltodextrin, protein, caffeine, or L-somethingoranother. Only b/c I don't have to time to get informed about it hence am scared of it...

The point is that she was participating in an amateur sports event and took something widely available and legal. It gave her the boost that she was looking for but raised her heart rate at a time when she possibly had other conditions leading to what happened.
My main point in starting this thread was expressly to raise awareness. There will be a lot of sportive riders out there buying whatever is pushed to "boost" their performance and (rough inaccurate figure) 90% will not do any research into what they are buying. Legal does not necessarily mean safe when used in endurance sports.

FransJacques

Indeed. Caffeine is also widely used. I was at a London cycle track for a cat 3/4 race and the guy at the locker beside me was popping white pills before our race. He took about 3 of them. I asked him what they were and he said Pro-Plus. He made a couple early attacks and I didn't see him again, so was somewhat relived he didn't stay with the group longer. People high on caffeine do not make the best bike handlers IME.

Gabbo

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Interesting if a little scary - not that I have taken any of it myself or anything similar.

In fairness to us, the brand she was using wasn't reputable and contained amphetamines. Is scary though!

cougie

The supplement she took wasn't one that any normal runner would use. It was a gym bunny supplement. Completely wrong for the occasion. Let's hope her sad story helps educate people.

danlikesbikes

daviesee wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

I take a few things no of which a illegal or near the banned list. But only after some careful consideration & checking out that the ingredients are, simply as some items you see are not a super supplement just a sugar based item, or packed with green tea, caffeine etc all of which you should be able to get from a relatively healthy diet.

That's all fine, well and good.
But when Claire Squires took hers they were legal and weren't banned substances.
Buyer beware.

Buyer beware is a very good point.

Personally if I am going to purchase anything of the sort (and most of mine or more for recovery) I want get past the picture on the front and actually read the ingredients list, then check that those ingredients are going to make any difference to me, then that those ingredients are not just readily available & that the ingredients are not potentially dangerous. That is just me though as I want to know what i am putting in my body, that it works, how it works & that it has no potential or proven negative side effects.

It's interesting to note that DMAA was banned by WADA prior to 2011.

pinno

Odd misconceptions in supplements. I read Willy Voets book after the Festina affair, it became plain that certain things wotk on certain people but you need proper trials. Amateurs don't have that luxury or Doctors/trainers to prove/disprove the potential effects of any substance.
Diet is so critical and there are to so many other factors - you know it yourself, good preperation can make a huge difference that no substance can. Your VO2 max for example cannot be enhanced without good physical condition in the first place and say a haematocrit increase (EPO, blood transfusions, altitude training).
I knew of ravers who took E and then drunk copious quantities of coca-cola and they were not fit and none of them died. In fact, despite being an extreme stimulant, Ecstacy deaths per 500,000 were pretty rare vis a vis alcohol/heroin/cigarettes.
Mrs Squires died because the stimulant had 'contributed' - who knows to what extent.
I'll stick to the Graeme O'Bree technique: toast and jam.

Mike Healey

And of course, if you're a manufacturer of protein supplements and you put a dash of steroids or similar in your product, your customers will be delighted by their progress and buy more ...and ... more ...more. And they'll recommend it to their friends, who will be delighted with their progress.

Cynical? Wot, me?

pinno

Mike Healey wrote:

And of course, if you're a manufacturer of protein supplements and you put a dash of steroids or similar in your product, your customers will be delighted by their progress and buy more ...and ... more ...more. And they'll recommend it to their friends, who will be delighted with their progress.

Cynical? Wot, me?

No. I know some gym bunnies (by virtue of extensive leg work in said gyms after injury/ops) and Maxi Muscle and 'Pro wotsit' are specifically designed to work with steroidal use. I used stuff called 'Reflex' - totally organic (very expensive) and the weightlifters used it but not the bodybuilders funnily enough.