Community spirit: Died or killed off ?

pinno

I was talking to a Mrs P MacD. She said in days gone by when she lived in Aberdeen, when it snowed (and there was plenty of it), all the people would go out with their shovels and brooms and sweep the snow away from the pavement.
They would do their own paths and a bit more as well as attending to elderly neighbours. Nothing would stop. Schools would continue and everything ran as normal (unless you were in a rural areas).

Then I hear that if you sweep your path and the postie slips on it, you can be sued. If you don't sweep it and he slips, he can't sue you !!!

Just a single example of how community spirit is and has been eroded away. My neighbors; they are there and friendly enough but I hardly know them.
WTF is wrong with us and why do we live in such isolation ?

daviesee

Laziness
& "it's the council's job". No, it's not.

team47b

Hello

I don't think living in the same road is the same thing as 'community', I think you need lifestyle similarities, religion, hobby, interests etc. In the past people who lived in the same village worked at the same 'factory' , now you all commute to different places and the only thing in common is where you live.

cake stop is a community.

what is this thing called 'snow' of which you speak?

Cleat Eastwood

funnily enough, well funny to me cos i know the punchline, at teh last big snowfall i found that people actually chatted more - and oddly cos they had to go slow thorugh the snow, they seemed more chilled out, in less of a hurry.

Over the weekend we put salt on our path and spread it on the road and n the neighbours paths - nothing to do with goodwill, it just makes it harder to trace teh footsteps after a spot of tom peepery.

tiredofwhiners

Generations of selfish parents, bringing up entitled little charmers who think the world owes them a living.

If they are unable to get out of bed in the morning without dynamite, and find a job, then clearing snow will not be high on their list of priorities.

So yes, its the parents fault for not bringing them up 'properly'.

RonB

Perhaps it is that, for many people, where they live ends at the gate or the fence around the garden. Where folks have an interest (in its widest sense) in their neighbourhood, then I think you can have a community without the need for other common interests, such as those mentioned by Team47b above. I have tended to live in more rural settings than most though, which might make bit of a difference.

Another factor is that folks tend to surround themselves in a bit of a bubble, glued to the mobile instead of interacting with their environment and those around them. In no way it is straightforward to just have a chat without a cause. Easier if you have a bike, dog or kids I guess. Anyway, enough from me already.

capt_slog

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

funnily enough, well funny to me cos i know the punchline, at teh last big snowfall i found that people actually chatted more - and oddly cos they had to go slow thorugh the snow, they seemed more chilled out, in less of a hurry.

We were talking about this some months ago, about how we used to know everyone in our avenue of around 50 houses.

I can remember as a kid I was always drawing maps of the street, on some I'd put in all the trees, on others I'd put in the name of the people who lived there. The thing is, that my mum or myself would be able to name nearly all of them, apart from when some 'new people' moved in but it didn't take long.

We came to the conclusion that it was the bus-stop that was the meeting place. We didn't have a car in the family until I was around 8, and mum met our neighbours on the bus, or walking up to it (she was always better at the 'north' of the street than the south).

I know live in the same house (where I was born BTW) and it's sad that these days I know hardly anyone in the same avenue, and we associate most of them with their cars!

nevman

Plenty of it here-two of us cleared a path for the cars on the hill where we live and neighbours steps.No one asked and we did it independently.Small village life has definite advantages for mutual benefits.And we dont spend all day gossiping down The Bull.

tiredofwhiners

nevman wrote:

Plenty of it here-two of us cleared a path for the cars on the hill where we live and neighbours steps.No one asked and we did it independently.

Out of interest, how many under the age of say, 25 took part without being press ganged ?

Frank the tank

There's no such thing as society Thatcher said so!

So clear your own fcukin' snow.

rick_chasey

tiredofwhiners wrote:

nevman wrote:

Plenty of it here-two of us cleared a path for the cars on the hill where we live and neighbours steps.No one asked and we did it independently.

Out of interest, how many under the age of say, 25 took part without being press ganged ?

If you take that attitude you won't find many.

centimani

Certainly where i live, there's been a huge change in the last 25 years.
We've lived in our current house for circa 25 years (average council housing estate), we knew most people up and down the street, some very well, some just to nod to, occasionally, some to avoid.
But as people (like ourselves) brought our council houses and our lot improved, some moved onwards and upwards, so the dynamic changed a bit, some old friends and aquaintances dissapeared, new people moved in, houses became lettings, more and more changes, then over the last few years, so many more houses are now brought by letting agencies so you have a continuous changing of people, plus many immigrants, some of who dont' or won't or whatever, mix with the neighbours.

I now know so few people up and down the street and TBH, the ones i do know are more a nod and a quick chat, no more.
No-one seems to have time anymore, life is busy...i know mine is .

de_sisti

tiredofwhiners wrote:

Generations of selfish parents, bringing up entitled little charmers who think the world owes them a living.

If they are unable to get out of bed in the morning without dynamite, and find a job, then clearing snow will not be high on their list of priorities.

So yes, its the parents fault for not bringing them up 'properly'.

verylonglegs

centimani wrote:

No-one seems to have time anymore, life is busy...i know mine is .

Probably one of the more pertinent points, so many more distractions in this day and age. despite all our labour saving devices people seem to have less time than ever. How many now spend time looking at youtube or other stuff for a few hours? searching for a new energy or mortgage deal? Might seem trivial but just a couple of examples of things people from previous generations didn't bother with because they couldn't or had no need. Sport..take football, used to be 3pm on a saturday and nothing more, now it's spread all through the weekend on tv. Not to mention other sports now televised too. Go outside and shovel snow or sit on your arse and watch tv? Shops are open 7 days a week also and work patterns are different for many. Not difficult to see how life has changed when all those things are added up.

MattC59

pinarello001 wrote:

Then I hear that if you sweep your path and the postie slips on it, you can be sued. If you don't sweep it and he slips, he can't sue you !!!

Sorry, that ones a myth.

nunowoolmez

TV & cars effectively killed communuty spirit. Nowadays people have the freedom to go where they want wgen they want. Cars, planes, trains accessable to the masses mesns that family & neighbours no longer spend time together & family more often than not don't stick together in the same house/area/town amymore.

TV, computer games, social media, reality Tv shows & all the rest means people can just sit there & find enterrainment & have no need to find people/family/neighbours to be able to socislise & interact with.

Also, a large part of society couldn't give a toss about anyone apart from them & their family, selfishness & the mindset of 'It's not my business so i won't involve myself'. People also have a lot less trust these days.

It's why we like pets so much.

k-dog

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

funnily enough, well funny to me cos i know the punchline, at teh last big snowfall i found that people actually chatted more - and oddly cos they had to go slow thorugh the snow, they seemed more chilled out, in less of a hurry.

Over the weekend we put salt on our path and spread it on the road and n the neighbours paths - nothing to do with goodwill, it just makes it harder to trace teh footsteps after a spot of tom peepery.

From what I've seen that depends on the area - and it's not all socio-economic. I don't really know what it is.

My parents live about a mile from me and they had similar experiences to the good stuff people have described - neighbours mucking in and helping each other.

When we had a lot of snow 2 years ago I spent 3 hours digging out a parking space in front of my house. While I was walking the 100yds to get my car one of my neighbours came out and moved their car into it. I could have beaten them to death with my shovel at that point.

It's not like they're young either - they'll be early 60s I suppose.

The next day someone parked on the end of the space (it was kind of a lay by off the main road because of the amount if snow). Took me an hour to dig the other end out in the morning.

I now understand why there are so many murders in Chicago in the winter.

tim_wand

Frank the tank wrote:

There's no such thing as society Thatcher said so!

So clear your own fcukin' snow.

Possibly because that over priveledged Tory W#nker Cameron is trying to sell us the "Big Society" as a substitute for downgrading and financially raping every public service, whilst he and his Cotswolds buddies are safe in their Public schools and Private health care schemes.

I d like to think I d give any one a hand, but it sticks in the throat when Cameron asks me to do it to cover the downfall in Public Services he's over seeing.

jordan_217

MattC59 wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Then I hear that if you sweep your path and the postie slips on it, you can be sued. If you don't sweep it and he slips, he can't sue you !!!

Sorry, that ones a myth.

Didn't stop the people over the road throwing it in my face after I'd cleared the road outside their house, near where they park. Needless to say, when I cleared the same area of road/pavements this time round, one of my snow heaps was on their garden

pauldavid

tim wand wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

There's no such thing as society Thatcher said so!

So clear your own fcukin' snow.

Possibly because that over priveledged Tory W#nker Cameron is trying to sell us the "Big Society" as a substitute for downgrading and financially raping every public service, whilst he and his Cotswolds buddies are safe in their Public schools and Private health care schemes.

I d like to think I d give any one a hand, but it sticks in the throat when Cameron asks me to do it to cover the downfall in Public Services he's over seeing.

What a silly little man you are with your tw@ttish comments, not everything can be David Camerons fault. :shock:

For example, the fact that your wife is having an affair with someone more interesting and less angry is not his fault.

Why does everything on BR come down to politics and berating whichever party you don't have time for these days, it used to be fun round here. Now it's generally full of tw@ttish rants like yours. :roll:

Cleat Eastwood

pauldavid wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

There's no such thing as society Thatcher said so!

So clear your own fcukin' snow.

Possibly because that over priveledged Tory W#nker Cameron is trying to sell us the "Big Society" as a substitute for downgrading and financially raping every public service, whilst he and his Cotswolds buddies are safe in their Public schools and Private health care schemes.

I d like to think I d give any one a hand, but it sticks in the throat when Cameron asks me to do it to cover the downfall in Public Services he's over seeing.

What a silly little man you are with your tw@ttish comments, not everything can be David Camerons fault. :shock:

For example, the fact that your wife is having an affair with someone more interesting and less angry is not his fault.

Why does everything on BR come down to politics and berating whichever party you don't have time for these days, it used to be fun round here. Now it's generally full of tw@ttish rants like yours. :roll:

To be fair you can't ahve a discussion on society and not include the fact that as an abstract it was used/is being used as a concrete political tool for a particular ideology. The notion of a big society, anyway, has existed for ages - its in the (church led sometimes) community groups who care for the homeless, or the police who go that extra mile and get involved in extra curricular activites with disadvantaged groups, its in the nurses who tend the ill regardless of background, the prison warders who treat with humanity those afeared by the public - - so is it anywondet that a clued up generation are hearing one idea of society and seeing on the other hand their own communities under attack.

And FYI tim wands missus is quite happy with me - ok she's asked for the monkey mask to removed but hey its my money I'll do as I please.

Pross

Yeah, the whole being sued thing is a myth and the Government to be fair went to pains two years ago to say that no-one should be sued if they clear snow off the road / footway.

Outside my house there's a small but steep hill that people at the far end of the cul-de-sac struggle to get up in the snow. It doesn't bother me as my 4x4 can get up it no problem. However, as me and my daughter are generally the first to use the street in the morning after overnight snow we generally grit the slope from a grit bin at the top and I then clear it at the first opportunity once the snow stops. Two years ago we were there at 6.30am (my daughter was 13 at the time) back and forward to the grit bin with buckets. Whilst we were doing it a taxi driver who lives at the end of the road attempted to drive up and failed to make it. Rather than help us he just went back down the slope and waited in his car until we finished before driving up and out! Me and a neighbour cleared the road 3 or 4 times that winter and this year I decided to take the same CBA attitude. As a result we had heavy snow on the Friday, I was regularly in and out in the 4x4 and left my normal car on the drive. No-one, including the taxi driver who's livelihood depends on getting his car out, attempted to drive out either with or without clearing the snow all day Friday or Saturday morning. On Saturday afternoon I needed to get my car out so cleared the patch outside my house at the foot of the hill and the usual neighbour opposite did the bit outside his at the top of the hill. Within 5 minutes of us finishing, 3 of the houses at the bottom of the street took their cars out! They all live on the flat section and this was left uncleared until it melted naturally.

I don't think it's community spirit, some people are just bone idle and want others to do everything for them.

pinno

MattC59 wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Then I hear that if you sweep your path and the postie slips on it, you can be sued. If you don't sweep it and he slips, he can't sue you !!!

Sorry, that ones a myth.

Then if that is the case, then there is absolutely no reason why people shouldn't clear paths and pavements.

<<Tw4t mode on>>
Politics has nothing to do with this thread ?!? It has everything to do with this thread. In a nutshell, Thatcher brought in the ethic of hedonism, 'no such thing as society', money is okay, winners and loosers etc etc. She also destroyed the traditional work places and industry which initiated the migration of people en masse within the UK. Regardless of anyone's opinion of unions/Thatcherism, she never took into the consideration the social effect of the upheaval and destruction of communities.
The neo-cons and neo liberals that have filled the administrative role since then have perpetuated the 'me' factor because since Thatcher, political parties have to massage the ego's of the 'me' classes in order to be voted in.
<<Tw4t mode off>>

tim_wand

pauldavid wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

There's no such thing as society Thatcher said so!

So clear your own fcukin' snow.

Possibly because that over priveledged Tory W#nker Cameron is trying to sell us the "Big Society" as a substitute for downgrading and financially raping every public service, whilst he and his Cotswolds buddies are safe in their Public schools and Private health care schemes.

I d like to think I d give any one a hand, but it sticks in the throat when Cameron asks me to do it to cover the downfall in Public Services he's over seeing.

What a silly little man you are with your tw@ttish comments, not everything can be David Camerons fault. :shock:

For example, the fact that your wife is having an affair with someone more interesting and less angry is not his fault.

Why does everything on BR come down to politics and berating whichever party you don't have time for these days, it used to be fun round here. Now it's generally full of tw@ttish rants like yours. :roll:

I ve PM'd you some contact details , please feel free to come and call me a Tw@t to my face any time

Pross

Ooh, is this some sort of special party? Can we all come around and call you that?

tim_wand

Pross wrote:

Ooh, is this some sort of special party? Can we all come around and call you that?

Only if your not in the Tory Party Pross, wouldnt have one of those Tw@ts over my threshold

I ve only PM'd him to see if he knows where my Wife is?

Pross

Nah, not a member but I have voted for them once - it's safe to do it around here though as the proverbial dog with a red rosette would get in ahead of them.

pauldavid

tim wand wrote:

Pross wrote:

Ooh, is this some sort of special party? Can we all come around and call you that?

Only if your not in the Tory Party Pross, wouldnt have one of those Tw@ts over my threshold

I ve only PM'd him to see if he knows where my Wife is?

She should be home anytime, she left here half an hour ago

tim_wand

pauldavid wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Pross wrote:

Ooh, is this some sort of special party? Can we all come around and call you that?

Only if your not in the Tory Party Pross, wouldnt have one of those Tw@ts over my threshold

I ve only PM'd him to see if he knows where my Wife is?

She should be home anytime, she left here half an hour ago

Fair play! hope you fed her, she'll only winge at me for not having the tea on and spending all day tossing around on bike forums

daviesee

tim wand wrote:

Fair play! hope you fed her, she'll only winge at me for not having the tea on and spending all day tossing around on bike forums

Is this really where you toss around? :shock:

ben@31

I experienced the selfish attitude at work the other week. Another guy and myself were struggling while everyone just sat there, watching, stuffing their faces and nobody offered to help. There's some phrase they have "look after number one, because nobody else does".

Some cyclists or runners can be just as bad, they can't even bring themselves to do something as simple as return a wave or a "hello" as we pass each other.

Talking about spirit, I was watching some interviews of Medal of Honor recipients. One common theme was they were all modest, with humility and all did acts of valor that are above and beyond the call of duty, because they felt they owed it to their country after everything their country gave them, a responsibility to be good citizens and help where help is needed. Thats something we don't see everyday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cx7KKETbko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3mKhvE9dY