Light wheels for a light person....

rolf_f

I recently bought some bargain Vittoria Open Corsas so now I need some new wheels to put them on and if that isn't the best excuse for getting new wheels I'm a green tomato.

Anyway, I don't weigh anything, I don't break spokes and the wheels will only be used for high days on my posh bike when the weather is nice. On that basis, they can probably be as light as possible and not necessarily as rigid as some would need.

My benchmark are Campagnolo Shamal Ultras. I can get those for a little over £600. They look good, weigh 1425gms according to all the blurbs, are durable and I like Campag wheels. That seems fairly hard to beat. I can't see me spending any much more because £600 is pretty bonkers IMO for wheels as it is. Open minded to anything else including handbuilts.

Must be low(ish) profile alloy clinchers. I'm over 30 and I don't race so deep rims and carbon aren't an option!

Any thoughts appreciated (hello Ugo!).

ugo.santalucia

Aren't Wheelsmith 23 about the same weight and a fair bit cheaper? You get the support of a trusty builder instead of the grumpy Campagnolo dealer...
I did build something very similar before the big freeze for Ricky, who came here just five minutes too late for an espresso but brought all the components, no feedback yet, I guess he is waiting for the penguins to get out of his shed before making an outing... Ask him how much he spent, I have no idea...

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/med ... tbox/16/91

cycleclinic

I have a customer coming in for his enigma tomorrow. He wanted lighter wheels so I obliged. He had Fulcrum racing 5's @1900g. The DT Swiss RR415 wheel set I built with Novatec hubs (it's a summer bike ugo!) cost less than £400, weight 1446g and have 28 spokes front and rear so spoke life should be good. He splashed out on CX-ray spokes (black hubs with red white and black decals, black spoke red nipples and black rims with red white and black decals). They look good, are as light as you ever need and a have good stiffness. The rider is light at 75kg which helps here. You could spend less and use round spokes. It also hurts my hands less when stress relieving a wheel.

So that sum's up what I think about factory wheels. Over expensive for what they are -round things that roll that are expensive to fix when they go wrong.


Ugo's camera skills are better than mine as so is his camera probably.

I have just realised I need to remount the tyre on the front wheel. Must do that quickly. tomorrow.

So many possibilities and it depend really on what you are after.

Ugo I just love those archeype rims. They have to be one of the best looking rims about. How much do the one's you get weigh. Mine all semm to be 480+g. Is this normal for these? I not that bothered really.

ugo.santalucia

Yes, 475 grams here! But they are the best rims to build I have used.

john1967

Anyone have any thoughts about the dura ace 9000 c24 wheelset.it comes in around the 1400g ish mark and can be picked up for around 600.I keep looking but the front wheel only has 16 spokes.should this put me off buying(at 72kg).?

rolf_f

Interesting stuff!

I like the look of the Archetypes (profile, spoke count etc) but......

1) Don't really want any Far Eastern stuff on the bike. As it is, the other expense will be new bars and stem to replace the Pro ones I didn't realise were Shimano. It needs to stay as European as possible.
2) Not keen on the anodised finish - both because of the inevitable wearing on the braking surface and also because it makes the wheel look like it has a carbon rim! This is Yorkshire - everyone would laugh at me if they thought I was riding carbon rims!
3) Just for info, 75kg is heavy - I weigh 60!

The DT Swiss rims (415g) seem much lighter than the Archetype (475g) but come with a higher spoke count. Presumably, rim weight is offset against spoke count and you wouldn't sensibly get 24 spokes on a rim as light as the 415? Just for the aesthetics (and that I can presumably easily get away with it) I like the lower spoke count and lacing pattern which saves me from thinking the wheels belong on my old Touring bike.

It's all a bit shallow I know but if it wasn't I'd just use the Neutrons I already have. But then I keep the stuff I buy so actually I don't spend much on the bikes compared to some. This is the first big change I'll have made to the bike in 3 years! Info so far much appreciated - it's not easy on the wheelbuilders sites to really work out what is suitable without a lot of product knowledge to start with.

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

Interesting stuff!

I like the look of the Archetypes (profile, spoke count etc) but......

1) Don't really want any Far Eastern stuff on the bike. As it is, the other expense will be new bars and stem to replace the Pro ones I didn't realise were Shimano. It needs to stay as European as possible.
2) Not keen on the anodised finish - both because of the inevitable wearing on the braking surface and also because it makes the wheel look like it has a carbon rim! This is Yorkshire - everyone would laugh at me if they thought I was riding carbon rims!
3) Just for info, 75kg is heavy - I weigh 60!

The DT Swiss rims (415g) seem much lighter than the Archetype (475g) but come with a higher spoke count. Presumably, rim weight is offset against spoke count and you wouldn't sensibly get 24 spokes on a rim as light as the 415? Just for the aesthetics (and that I can presumably easily get away with it) I like the lower spoke count and lacing pattern which saves me from thinking the wheels belong on my old Touring bike.

It's all a bit shallow I know but if it wasn't I'd just use the Neutrons I already have. But then I keep the stuff I buy so actually I don't spend much on the bikes compared to some. This is the first big change I'll have made to the bike in 3 years! Info so far much appreciated - it's not easy on the wheelbuilders sites to really work out what is suitable without a lot of product knowledge to start with.

Xenophobe...

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Xenophobe...

Now just a cotton pickin minute here Ugo

To be fair - my Raleigh is Suntour equiped which is probably the best quality componentry I have on any of my bikes.
My MTB is Shimano throughout (I just purged the last bits of Evil SRAM related junk from it! Though, to be fair, once I'd binned the BB the Crankset turned out fine)
My Dawes has a Shimano cassette and BB
My Ribble has a Taiwanese frame (which says Handcrafted in Italy on it!)

So I think I've done my bit for the Far Eastern economies and I can guiltlessly try to keep my Look European (at least as European as a bike with a Tunisian made frame can be - but the Med counts as Europe anyway!). Mind you, technically I need to source some Veloflex as the Vittorias are Far Eastern too I think. But the Veloflexs might need another pair of wheels!

Now stop picking on me and start advising me again!

ugo.santalucia

Get the Campagnolo... it is pointless to try to engineer a set with European components if you don't have problems with factory wheels. I crossed the Pyrenees on Campagnolo wheels, they are fine...

Monty Dog

Shamals are nice, same weight as Ksyriums, but a little more aero and little less harsh than Ksyriums for example. If you're looking for comfort over speed, then a slightly wider rim like Velocity A23s or Archetypes built with Record hubs and Sapim CX Rays would be similar in weight but would provider a slightly more comfortable ride.

JamesB

I built with Novatec hubs (it's a summer bike ugo!)

that`s a very interesting comment. Recently had a set of wheels built up with Novatec 811/812 SB hubs to take disc brakes on a winter road bike set up.

200 miles later rear hub bearings have got really rough, grating and locked solid, also have play. Fair enough the seller of the hubs sent a replacement set 6001 bearings but although beautifully finished hubs shell and lovely wheels bearings seemed awaful. So is this typical Novatec sealed hubs then, or have I just been unlucky?

ugo.santalucia

JamesB wrote:

I built with Novatec hubs (it's a summer bike ugo!)

that`s a very interesting comment. Recently had a set of wheels built up with Novatec 811/812 SB hubs to take disc brakes on a winter road bike set up.

200 miles later rear hub bearings have got really rough, grating and locked solid, also have play. Fair enough the seller of the hubs sent a replacement set 6001 bearings but although beautifully finished hubs shell and lovely wheels bearings seemed awaful. So is this typical Novatec sealed hubs then, or have I just been unlucky?

Strange James. I have the 711/712 disc which are slightly upmarket, I seem to recall and they are awesome. 5000 miles in all weathers and they are like new. Some Novatec hubs are mediocre, others are very very good

napoleond

If going for campag wheels, I'd go for the Neutron Ultras.

iPete

American Classic Mag 300? 1100g but can't say if they'll be any good and a bit over budget

JamesB

I have the 711/712 disc which are slightly upmarket, I seem to recall and they are awesome. 5000 miles in all weathers and they are like new

glad to hear that and I hope that the 811/812 set are a one off `Friday` set bearings. The old bearings, from hub not freewheel are absolutely shot; one is very grating and teh other is locked solid With new bearings runs beautifully smooth now

LegendLust

If you really want 100% European wheels then look at Miche. All their wheels are built in their factory in Italy.

I have a pair of Supertype deep section wheels for racing and a pair of Connect's for winter training. they're superb wheels, never needed truing and the hubs are buttery smooth.

Very underrated.

ellj22

If your going custom, there is plenty of choice from European companies.

Spokes; dt swiss, Alpina or Sapim (personally I'd do Sapim CX-ray spokes, they are light and very durable)

Hubs; Campagnolo, Ambrosio, Miche, Hope, Tune, Dt-swiss, Extralite, Soul-Kozak, Royce, Goldtech ect....

Rims; Mavic, Ambrosio, DRC, Rigida

The list goes on but you should be able to build something a little different in your price bracket at around 1300g for a durable 2X build

cycleclinic

I was trying to write a post but ellj22 has beat me to it.

You need to specifiy exactly want style of wheel you want if there is a look you are after and other detail like exactly how heavy you are and other stuff.

As for rims there is also DT Swiss but you have already ruled those out.

ellj22

On second thoughts 1300g was a bit of an under estimation 1400-1500g more likely as I can't find European rims that are very light.

I'm sure there are a few brands I missed but it gives the OP a place to start to check out and compare what is available.

rolf_f

iPete wrote:

American Classic Mag 300? 1100g but can't say if they'll be any good and a bit over budget

I've got to hear what Ugo has to say about these! At least they look tasteful for American classics! Probably too expensive though.

NapoleonD wrote:

If going for campag wheels, I'd go for the Neutron Ultras.

Why not the Shamals. FWIW, I have a set of standard Neutrons which rules out the Ultras anyway! Both in terms of too samey, not enough weight saving and not enough 'wow, a new piece of bike bling'!

thecycleclinic wrote:

I was trying to write a post but ellj22 has beat me to it.

You need to specifiy exactly want style of wheel you want if there is a look you are after and other detail like exactly how heavy you are and other stuff.

As for rims there is also DT Swiss but you have already ruled those out.

There is a lot! I think I've covered most things though - eg ideally low spoke count, not much/any heavier than the 1425g Shamals, my weight - 60kg.

And Ugo's confusing me - advising me to go Factory! Is this the real Ugo?

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

[
And Ugo's confusing me - advising me to go Factory! Is this the real Ugo?

So what? You said you have always been happy with Campagnolo wheels, you say you are not hard on your equipment, don't break spokes, don't ride hard... if you don't have a problem with Campagnolo wheels, who am I to tell you that you do?

There is nothing wrong at all with their wheels, I am not one going around telling you that hand builts are so much better... my rants against Campagnolo, Fulcrum and Mavic are only and always against the lack of spares or their stupid price tag. When an alloy rim is priced like a deep section carbon one, then I have a go at that... :x

bikergirl17

would steer very very clear of those american classic hubs. i weigh sub 50 kg and these have insane flex. almost unusable.

i should add they are on an american classic wheel set that weighs c 1250g ... i am a huge advocate of light wheels, but i think at some point they are just too light to be useful/safe. i went for heavier, stable hubs on my current set as stability was really important to me. they are a bit heavier than i like for mountain-type climbing, but you can feel the difference on the flats/downhills.

ugo.santalucia

bikergirl17 wrote:

would steer very very clear of those american classic hubs. i weigh sub 50 kg and these have insane flex. almost unusable.

i should add they are on an american classic wheel set that weighs c 1250g ... i am a huge advocate of light wheels, but i think at some point they are just too light to be useful/safe. i went for heavier, stable hubs on my current set as stability was really important to me. they are a bit heavier than i like for mountain-type climbing, but you can feel the difference on the flats/downhills.

It's not the hubs, there must have been some other issue... slack spokes maybe?

smidsy

No problem with AC hubs on my 420 Aero wheels and I am 77kg.