wheels and tyres upgrade for heavy rider

marcusww

Looking to upgrade a new bike spec roubaix comp 2012 for lighter alloy wheels and tyres. Thinking about Fulcrum 3 or Mavic kysrium elite with Conty 4000s. I am new to road riding after riding mtb's all my life and looking at 4/5 sportives this year. The problem is I am 17 stone / 238 lbs. I am loooking at wheels around 1500 grams. Are these suitable suitable or does anyone know what wheels would be?

lostboysaint

Speak to Ugo on here about handbuilts. He'll do something sexy for a similar budget and with the right weight and spoke count ratio, that you know is well built and easily serviced/trued should the worst happen.

Here's his blog. http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/

smidsy

Ugo is the man but essentially for someone 17 stone you would need to look at a higher spoke count (maybe 36) to reduce the liklihood of spokes breaking.

Light wheels of 1500g invariably use lower spoke counts and may well prove unsuitable.

rrsodl

smidsy wrote:

Ugo is the man but essentially for someone 17 stone you would need to look at a higher spoke count (maybe 36) to reduce the liklihood of spokes breaking.

Light wheels of 1500g invariably use lower spoke counts and may well prove unsuitable.

I used to to think that too until somebody corrected me. Better quality wheels are stronger but not because they have more spokes. There are some zipp wheels that have a recommended weight "up to 18 stones".

I'm 17 stones and I ride 20 spokes wheels, very ordinary wheels but they are OK. Before that I had a set of Shimano R550 with 16 spokes in the front and 20 in the back. Wheels still run true and are in my other bike.

This year I'll build a good set of wheels

BTW, Ugo does know his stuff and he is also very helpful.

Bullet1

I was a fraction heavier than you last summer at 17 stone 7lbs and upgraded to MaviceKrysium Elites but went for Conti GT 24s.

600 or so miles in and yet to break a spoke or get one of those other things that require a bit of road side maintenance. Can speak for Ugo but I'm more than happy with my set up!

ugo.santalucia

Bullet1 wrote:

I was a fraction heavier than you last summer at 17 stone 7lbs and upgraded to MaviceKrysium Elites but went for Conti GT 24s.

600 or so miles in and yet to break a spoke or get one of those other things that require a bit of road side maintenance. Can speak for Ugo but I'm more than happy with my set up!

600 miles is hardly a long way.
Factory wheels at that weight should last around 2000-3000 miles, while a set of 36 spokes at that weight will probably last 6-8000 after which it can be respoked for little money and re-rimmed if necessary
For rider around and over 100 Kg the benefit of light wheels are pretty insignificant anyway. Stiff wheels and robust wheels are the way to go, even in terms of performance

marcusww

This is all good stuff, I have felt in the past great differences with lighter wheels on mtbs so would be interested whether ugo can build something decent at that weight.

smidsy

RRSODL wrote:

smidsy wrote:

Ugo is the man but essentially for someone 17 stone you would need to look at a higher spoke count (maybe 36) to reduce the liklihood of spokes breaking.

Light wheels of 1500g invariably use lower spoke counts and may well prove unsuitable.

I used to to think that too until somebody mistakenly told me I was wrong.

FIFY

shinobishoryuken

I had major concerns about wheels holding my weight when I first bought a road bike, especially after years of MTB.
I was just over 140kg when I bought my bike and the basic Giant wheels have been brilliant (but I've never ridden another road bike to compare).

Each time I wash it I cannot believe how true they still are and I've hit my share of pot-holes too. Once, a spoke popped out but must just have been loose as I managed to sort it out with no tools with a few twists.

I'm still over 120kg and although I'd love an expensive, light set of flash wheels I know I'll get even more performance out of mine if I continue to lose weight.

As a heavy guy I'd trade strength over low-weight- I don't fancy a wheel folding on me on the roads!

diy

With MTB being a few kg over weight is not too big an issue as you can gain on the down hill what you lost on the up. Also riding fast is so much more down to the technique than fitness on MTB. With road riding you really do have nowhere to hide it. I've no idea if 17 stone is the right weight for you, but if it isn't you could easily get a stone off in 4-6 weeks with the right approach.

You could spend a fortune on wheels and they'd make no difference at all to your performance.

marcusww

Having lost a stone from 18 to 17 in the last few months I hopefully will take it down further as the more riding that I do in the warmer and longer days. At 6'2" I do ride a larger bike - a XL spec roubaix comp 2012. The standard DT swiss 3.0 wheels (30 spokes rear) are heavy but do seem to be bombproof (at the moment) riding the rough south downs lanes.
But I was hoping to get some lighter wheels and tyres for some sportives in the south this coming year. It seems the Mavic Ksyriums seems to be a favourite but they are expensive and was trying to find some similar but cheaper - Any ideas?

lostboysaint

Yes, speak to Ugo who posted up here about half way down the thread!!!

ugo.santalucia

Marcusww wrote:

Having lost a stone from 18 to 17 in the last few months I hopefully will take it down further as the more riding that I do in the warmer and longer days. At 6'2" I do ride a larger bike - a XL spec roubaix comp 2012. The standard DT swiss 3.0 wheels (30 spokes rear) are heavy but do seem to be bombproof (at the moment) riding the rough south downs lanes.
But I was hoping to get some lighter wheels and tyres for some sportives in the south this coming year. It seems the Mavic Ksyriums seems to be a favourite but they are expensive and was trying to find some similar but cheaper - Any ideas?

Well done for losing a stone, but you are still way off target for a "light set"... you should be able to put down 350 Watts whilst reading the newspaper, I don't understand whay you are scared of a pound more in your wheels...
I have an aerobic threshold of around 280 Watts and have no problem whatsoever using wheels with 36 spokes

marcusww

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Marcusww wrote:

Having lost a stone from 18 to 17 in the last few months I hopefully will take it down further as the more riding that I do in the warmer and longer days. At 6'2" I do ride a larger bike - a XL spec roubaix comp 2012. The standard DT swiss 3.0 wheels (30 spokes rear) are heavy but do seem to be bombproof (at the moment) riding the rough south downs lanes.
But I was hoping to get some lighter wheels and tyres for some sportives in the south this coming year. It seems the Mavic Ksyriums seems to be a favourite but they are expensive and was trying to find some similar but cheaper - Any ideas?

Well done for losing a stone, but you are still way off target for a "light set"... you should be able to put down 350 Watts whilst reading the newspaper, I don't understand whay you are scared of a pound more in your wheels...
I have an aerobic threshold of around 280 Watts and have no problem whatsoever using wheels with 36 spokes

Yes this is all very understandable, I am not really in tune with the wattage terms presently but will as I get more into it, however returning to the wheels, its also about me 'liking' to upgrade the bike if you see what I mean, I like nice 'gear'

ugo.santalucia

Marcusww wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Marcusww wrote:

Having lost a stone from 18 to 17 in the last few months I hopefully will take it down further as the more riding that I do in the warmer and longer days. At 6'2" I do ride a larger bike - a XL spec roubaix comp 2012. The standard DT swiss 3.0 wheels (30 spokes rear) are heavy but do seem to be bombproof (at the moment) riding the rough south downs lanes.
But I was hoping to get some lighter wheels and tyres for some sportives in the south this coming year. It seems the Mavic Ksyriums seems to be a favourite but they are expensive and was trying to find some similar but cheaper - Any ideas?

Well done for losing a stone, but you are still way off target for a "light set"... you should be able to put down 350 Watts whilst reading the newspaper, I don't understand whay you are scared of a pound more in your wheels...
I have an aerobic threshold of around 280 Watts and have no problem whatsoever using wheels with 36 spokes

Yes this is all very understandable, I am not really in tune with the wattage terms presently but will as I get more into it, however returning to the wheels, its also about me 'liking' to upgrade the bike if you see what I mean, I like nice 'gear'

You can get a set of light wheels, they won't collapse under your weight... roughly speaking, they will last 1/3 of the mileage a 12 stone rider will get out of them... which could still be 5-6000 miles.
However, if you are a high mileage guy, they won't last for very long. There are pretty options even among high spoke count wheels
Would you call these ugly?

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/med ... ail/16/201

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/med ... ail/16/116

Htron

Marcusww wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Marcusww wrote:

Having lost a stone from 18 to 17 in the last few months I hopefully will take it down further as the more riding that I do in the warmer and longer days. At 6'2" I do ride a larger bike - a XL spec roubaix comp 2012. The standard DT swiss 3.0 wheels (30 spokes rear) are heavy but do seem to be bombproof (at the moment) riding the rough south downs lanes.
But I was hoping to get some lighter wheels and tyres for some sportives in the south this coming year. It seems the Mavic Ksyriums seems to be a favourite but they are expensive and was trying to find some similar but cheaper - Any ideas?

Well done for losing a stone, but you are still way off target for a "light set"... you should be able to put down 350 Watts whilst reading the newspaper, I don't understand whay you are scared of a pound more in your wheels...
I have an aerobic threshold of around 280 Watts and have no problem whatsoever using wheels with 36 spokes

Yes this is all very understandable, I am not really in tune with the wattage terms presently but will as I get more into it, however returning to the wheels, its also about me 'liking' to upgrade the bike if you see what I mean, I like nice 'gear'

I hear you. You have the urge to buy some bling as reward/motivation. Understandable.

You are greatly benefitting from the wisdom of others here. A handbuilt set of wheels look more understated than a bling factory set, but they are a better buy, as they will last longer. They will probably be stiffer too which at your size is important. Light wheels will not help you as a big guy.

Handbuilt wheels are definitely an upgrade. Think of them as you would a bespoke suit.

lostboysaint

You keep saying about "coming from MTBs" but there's little similarity as most MTB wheels already have a significant spoke count so it's easy to "upgrade" your wheels for something 2kg that is still stiff, strong and much lighter than the OEM pile of shit. (I am 95-100kg depending on time of year, fitness/fatness etc) I run 32 spoke Mavic EN521 rims on Hope hubs, they come in under 2kg for the pair and feel fantastic.

I also have a road bike. It's my second. My first was a Wilier Escape which, because it was built for a photoshoot, had Ambrosio Evolution on Campag Veloce hubs (32 spoke). They were fantastic and continue to do good service for the guy that bought them off me who lives and rides in Ireland and does 3500km/year. My current wheels are Fulcrum Racing 5. They look fantastic, feel light at 1750g but have only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the rear, similar to the Mavic that you are thinking about. When I stand up and give it the beans or really start to crank the power down I KNOW that they are flexing because I can feel it. That's what you're going to feel and they're going to be a bastard to repair when they go.

This is why I am currently having a very interesting conversation with Ugo (Paolo) and will shortly be deciding on a handbuilt package that will have 32 spokes/wheel at no weight penalty and with all the benefits of being easily serviced/repaired as well as looking sexy (if I choose the right rim )

Learn from the collective knowledge, especially from fellow big lads.

PS: Have a look at the weight recommendation on the Fulcrum 3s, I haven't but I bet there's a "careful if you're over 85kg" note. You are!

marcusww

This is all good advice and thank you all, am thinking to leave it for a bit now - to see what weight I get to in April which will be the 1st Sportive I shall take part in - the wiggle new forest.

Meanwhile I shall have to get a new tyre on the rear as althought the spec espoir 25c is supposed to be very tough, it is almost shredded after picking up punctures of flint around the south downs and even on Hayling Island. The puncture fairy seems to be following me at the moment!

lostboysaint

Ha, where are you based? Might be able to catch up for a larger chaps ride!! I'm around Fareham.

essjaydee

I'm currently 16St and went for a new rear wheel of;
Open Pro rim, 36 spoke, 3 cross lace pattern using Hope hub and sapim double butted spokes. Had it handbuilt and delighted with it so far in the last 1000 odd miles

Will be going for hand builts again on my next wheel purchase

EPO Delivery Man

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works to all you skinny guys out there but the spoke count theory is a bit of a myth.

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

Then weighed 21 stone a few months later and moved onto a set of Easton EA50 aeros. Again, bullet proof, not a single spoke gone (and ive caned some big potholes unexpectedly) still true and still rolling really well.

Now weigh 19 stone and have a set of Cosmic Carbonnes. Again, not a problem.

So dont worry about being 17 stone, Shimanos dont have a weight limit and neither do Giant wheels. Dont think Easton wheels have either. The only problem you'll have is with cheap, unbranded, wheels and then its more to do with not knowing their construction. But in general, ive found wheels nearly always out-perform the myths currently circulating and thats after years of use on various kinds.

marcusww

lostboysaint wrote:

Ha, where are you based? Might be able to catch up for a larger chaps ride!! I'm around Fareham.

Hi Curdridge and ride generaly round south downs 14mph average up and down those hills - found the Mercury hill - East Meon to Clanfield last week which was nice! - Everything seemed to be easy after that. Although The White way and Lynch Lane in exton and west Meon seem to be testers as well!

Have a colleague in Gosport at 20 stone who is keen but a bit slower average - I read that the Americans call us 'Clydesdales'!!!!!

Have thought about joining the Fareham wheelers but after passing them in he opposite direction a few weeks ago I think I need to get a bit fitter!

lostboysaint

Fareham Wheelers have a good slower representation I believe.

That's a good long drag. There's a lot of good riding around there (I was born and brought up in Clanfield) including Harvesting Lane which is a real challenge. Come out of East Meon towards Clanfield, turn left about half a mile out (at a farm) and follow the lane round to the right, you'll see the signs to Harvesting Lane. Go up, then turn right at the top and coast down North Lane into Clanfield. You'll enjoy that one. Ping me a PM with an email address and we'll try and sort a ride out.

ugo.santalucia

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works to all you skinny guys out there but the spoke count theory is a bit of a myth.

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

Then weighed 21 stone a few months later and moved onto a set of Easton EA50 aeros. Again, bullet proof, not a single spoke gone (and ive caned some big potholes unexpectedly) still true and still rolling really well.

Now weigh 19 stone and have a set of Cosmic Carbonnes. Again, not a problem.

And in 6 months you went through three sets of wheels... no wonder you don't experience the drawbacks, you don't give them time to fail... not everybody is so lucky to be able to splash 2 monkeys worth of wheels every six months... some have to make do with a single 200 pounds purchase for 3 years or even longer... in that scenario, a high spoke count really helps... and after three years they can even be rebuilt at a fraction of the initial price

rolf_f

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

What's the mileage on each of those wheelsets?

iandennis

I'm 15.5 stone and steadily going down. Whilst I used Fulcrum 5's for LEJOG 970 miles and did so without issue, next time I will be going probably go to Ugo for a really good set of handbuilds. Won't be for a while yet as hopefully getting a new bike

My cxp22 specialized "bombproof" oem wheels on tricross are still going strong despite some awful roads and offroad stuff

EPO Delivery Man

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works to all you skinny guys out there but the spoke count theory is a bit of a myth.

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

Then weighed 21 stone a few months later and moved onto a set of Easton EA50 aeros. Again, bullet proof, not a single spoke gone (and ive caned some big potholes unexpectedly) still true and still rolling really well.

Now weigh 19 stone and have a set of Cosmic Carbonnes. Again, not a problem.

And in 6 months you went through three sets of wheels... no wonder you don't experience the drawbacks, you don't give them time to fail... not everybody is so lucky to be able to splash 2 monkeys worth of wheels every six months... some have to make do with a single 200 pounds purchase for 3 years or even longer... in that scenario, a high spoke count really helps... and after three years they can even be rebuilt at a fraction of the initial price

No, i said i weighed 23 stone 6 months ago and had Shimano RS20's. These wheels i have had for 5 years and done about 20,000 miles on them.
I swapped them for the Eastons 6 months ago after my road accident and ive done just over 5700 miles on them. I have recently bought the Cosmic Carbonnes and have done about 1000 miles on them.

In all that time ive not had a spoke go out of line, break or the wheels go out of true. But as the OP was asking if they could handle weight, then the answer is yes.

So youre not so lucky to be able to splash out 2 monkeys worth in 6 months, so what? I can. I did.
My advice, run your own company like i do, work hard and earn more money. We're not all slackers.

smidsy

@EPO - your scientific study of 1 does not constitute the definitive answer.

As I stated early on in this thread low spoke count wheels are not generally considered a wise move for heavier riders... Higher spoke count wheels are generally considered a wise move.

You have had a good experience with all your wheels - that is good for you. The vast majority of heavy riders I have encoutered generally have not had such experiences with low spoke count wheels.

To the OP - it's your money and your life so do what you want - but there are people on here who know their stuff and I personally know who I would take advice from - especially where wheels are concerned.

ugo.santalucia

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works to all you skinny guys out there but the spoke count theory is a bit of a myth.

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

Then weighed 21 stone a few months later and moved onto a set of Easton EA50 aeros. Again, bullet proof, not a single spoke gone (and ive caned some big potholes unexpectedly) still true and still rolling really well.

Now weigh 19 stone and have a set of Cosmic Carbonnes. Again, not a problem.

And in 6 months you went through three sets of wheels... no wonder you don't experience the drawbacks, you don't give them time to fail... not everybody is so lucky to be able to splash 2 monkeys worth of wheels every six months... some have to make do with a single 200 pounds purchase for 3 years or even longer... in that scenario, a high spoke count really helps... and after three years they can even be rebuilt at a fraction of the initial price

No, i said i weighed 23 stone 6 months ago and had Shimano RS20's. These wheels i have had for 5 years and done about 20,000 miles on them.
I swapped them for the Eastons 6 months ago after my road accident and ive done just over 5700 miles on them. I have recently bought the Cosmic Carbonnes and have done about 1000 miles on them.

In all that time ive not had a spoke go out of line, break or the wheels go out of true. But as the OP was asking if they could handle weight, then the answer is yes.

So youre not so lucky to be able to splash out 2 monkeys worth in 6 months, so what? I can. I did.
My advice, run your own company like i do, work hard and earn more money. We're not all slackers.

Good for you.
I struggle with You doing 6700 miles in 6 months, that is not far off PRO mileage... But good for you if you have the time and weather on your side to cycle that much
To avoid further waste of time, I will not post again on this thread...

EPO Delivery Man

smidsy wrote:

@EPO - your scientific study of 1 does not constitute the definitive answer.

As I stated early on in this thread low spoke count wheels are not generally considered a wise move for heavier riders... Higher spoke count wheels are generally considered a wise move.

You have had a good experience with all your wheels - that is good for you. The vast majority of heavy riders I have encoutered generally have not had such experiences with low spoke count wheels.

To the OP - it's your money and your life so do what you want - but there are people on here who know their stuff and I personally know who I would take advice from - especially where wheels are concerned.

Have you ever weighed 23 stone? can you speak from experience?

Im guessing not.

Makes me laugh when a few skinny guys let their egos get in the way and they post on here thinking they are 'cycling Gods of advice'. Im sorry to hear your 'friends' havent had good experiences.

But i have, so ive offered my advice. And im guessing that having weighed 23 stone my advice is probably a bit more experienced than yours.

I rest my case.

EPO Delivery Man

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works to all you skinny guys out there but the spoke count theory is a bit of a myth.

I started back on a bike last summer weighing 23 stone-heaviest id ever been after a motorbike accident, im pretty solid, rugby player frame not couch potato and started on a set of Shimano RS20's. Coped easily, still true, still rolling.

Then weighed 21 stone a few months later and moved onto a set of Easton EA50 aeros. Again, bullet proof, not a single spoke gone (and ive caned some big potholes unexpectedly) still true and still rolling really well.

Now weigh 19 stone and have a set of Cosmic Carbonnes. Again, not a problem.

And in 6 months you went through three sets of wheels... no wonder you don't experience the drawbacks, you don't give them time to fail... not everybody is so lucky to be able to splash 2 monkeys worth of wheels every six months... some have to make do with a single 200 pounds purchase for 3 years or even longer... in that scenario, a high spoke count really helps... and after three years they can even be rebuilt at a fraction of the initial price

No, i said i weighed 23 stone 6 months ago and had Shimano RS20's. These wheels i have had for 5 years and done about 20,000 miles on them.
I swapped them for the Eastons 6 months ago after my road accident and ive done just over 5700 miles on them. I have recently bought the Cosmic Carbonnes and have done about 1000 miles on them.

In all that time ive not had a spoke go out of line, break or the wheels go out of true. But as the OP was asking if they could handle weight, then the answer is yes.

So youre not so lucky to be able to splash out 2 monkeys worth in 6 months, so what? I can. I did.
My advice, run your own company like i do, work hard and earn more money. We're not all slackers.

Good for you.
I struggle with You doing 6700 miles in 6 months, that is not far off PRO mileage... But good for you if you have the time and weather on your side to cycle that much
To avoid further waste of time, I will not post again on this thread...

Got a calculator?
right i do 30 mile commute to work every day, 15 miles-15 miles back, so times that by 5 =150 miles. Times that by 4 weeks = 600 miles.
Then throw in a 50 mile ride on a saturday and 50 mile ride on a sunday every weekend, thats another 400 miles a month.
Now times that by 6 months. Got it? 6000 miles.

If you read my post i said i did 5700, not over 6000, thats due to not going out every weekend.

Im assuming you have done maths GCSE of some kind? seriously, you dont need to be Albert Einstein son to work out that 5700 is not a lot of miles in 6 months when you commute like i do. its not my fault you only go out once a week on a sunday for 10 miles and a piece of cake.