Have I deceived someone?

bluechair84

I've just sold a camera on ebay and the buyer is now saying he doesn't want it because the flash gun wasn't included in the sale when there was a picture of it in the gallery. I'm after your thoughts on whether he deserves his money back or if he's in the wrong. So, the advert goes thus:

Small bodied Olympus E520. Takes excellent shots. I've use this to take landscapes in Snowdonia, the Lakes District, Scotland, to shoot portraits at weddings and to take macro shots of an artist's work. I've now changed to a micro four thirds so I can carry less weight when mountaineering so this is now for sale.
Comes with;

the body (10MP),
kit lens,
Tele,
Prime lens,
wide angle and macro adaptors,
shutter release cable,
two 2GB flash cards,
boxed,
manual ( a bit soiled but fine inside),
bag,
charger,
USB,
TV cable,
A polariser

There is a crack in the protective pastic over the LCD but affects the LCD in no way. Otherwise, the camera is in excellent condition with no marks on the body or lens.

I do also have the external flash gun and extension cable but this is for sale separatly at £100. It's not up on eBay yet but drop me an email at purchase if you would also like the flash gun (price non-negotiable as it is in excellent condition, is an amazing flash and is very expensive new).

There was a single picture of the flash in the advert and the buyer thinks that because there was a picture, I have confused him which is my fault. He wants his refund. I'm inclined to tell him to go to any primary school and ask them what is for sale in this advert. So - have I deceived this guy? Does he deserve his money back? And will Paypal dispute take his side do you think? I'm currently biting my tongue incase my response is biased.

nicklouse

I would say you have given too much info and confused the buyer.

and they have no realised and are trying it on.

pastey_boy

I purchased a bike off Ebay and in one of the pictures of the bike in the sellers garden I could see his young son and dog. Luckily for me the seller sent both his boy and dog with the bike, saving me the hassle of having to lodge a complaint.

pastey_boy

P.s The buyer is very wrong but do not rely on Paypal to do the right thing.

bluechair84

I'm hoping he isn't expecting to receive my bedlinen in the post with the camera too... I think I will make him go through the official resolution centre and abide by eBay's findings. I don't see how I could have been any clearer or more concise with the advert, other than to not mention the flash at all - something the buyer might be genuinely interested in.

danlikesbikes

If its the flash gun you refer to further down your ad then I assume you have covered yourself by confirming it was not included in the sale.

Rather like those ad's you see on TV for say a phone case & they have to put at the bottom phone not included to help stupid people who are buying a phone case for their phone and think its a bloody good deal s they will get a second phone for free.

Safe to say that the person can read? As they have clearly read the part regarding your small crack (pun intended).

Is this new/inexperienced Ebay user, will a low score or a more experienced buyer? As you might expect something stupid from someone new to Ebay. Plus guess it will depend on what you put as your refund policy i.e. none, refund if damaged etc.

Sometimes you do get them, like the chap from London who bought a 15 year old microwave from me for £10 with the ad clearly stating collection only due to the weight. He then complained as he wanted me to cover the courier bill for another £20. In the end I just refunded the money & re-listed the item.

getting_on_a_bit

Seems perfectly clear to me that the flash is available at an additional cost

pesky_jones

The buyer is the type of guy you just wanna backhand

bluechair84

Danlikesbikes wrote:

If its the flash gun you refer to further down your ad then I assume you have covered yourself by confirming it was not included in the sale.

Well, I'm hoping that it's confirmed clearly enough in the advert - he's purchased it already on buy it now, but he never emailed me asking before purchase.
However, there is no punctuation in his sentencing and his sentence constructions aren't very clear. Seems to me to have a slight Indian take on the English language. Suffice to say, I don't think English is his first language and he may have literally just looked through the pictures. I haven't sent it yet, but emailed him last night asking if he wanted the flash too which must have been when he realised his mistake.
But if people think I've been clear enough, and that including a picture of something related isn't unreasonable, I'll let him take it to the resolution centre. Fingers crossed that Paypal/eBay will see it from my point of view too...

bluechair84

Pesky Jones wrote:

The buyer is the type of guy you just wanna backhand

eBay is bloody full of the fools. I've had non-payment of things quite a few times and I don't sell all that much.

getting on a bit wrote:

Seems perfectly clear to me that the flash is available at an additional cost

Cheers, that's what I was hoping for - confirmation that I'm not going mad!

rhext

I can't see anything misleading about the text above, assuming you've provided a verbatim record of the posting. Certainly no more misleading than the 'serving suggestions' on the front of pretty much any food packet you might buy. I wouldn't bite my tongue, nor would I worry about bias. A short, and factual response might make it go away. Maybe you could offer him a tenner off the price of the flash as a goodwill gesture. Something like:


Dear ...,

I've reread my posting and

1) there is a complete and accurate list of the equipment which is for sale and which you have now received.

2) the flash gun and extension cable are clearly identified as being for sale separately.

I attach the full text below, so that you can review it yourself. The flash gun remains for sale separately at a price of £100 <although as a goodwill gesture, I'm prepared to drop the price to £90 for you if you wish to buy it>.



Regards....



<insert text of advert in here>

Lagrange

bluechair84 wrote:

I'm hoping he isn't expecting to receive my bedlinen in the post with the camera too...

I'f you'd been using it in your bed linen (presumably with the flash) then I expect he (and his partner) would be more interested in the film than said flash gun......

(For legal reasons by film I mean the reproductive media...no I DON'T mean the smear of ...no leave it)

bluechair84

Lagrange wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I'm hoping he isn't expecting to receive my bedlinen in the post with the camera too...

I'f you'd been using it in your bed linen (presumably with the flash) then I expect he (and his partner) would be more interested in the film than said flash gun......

(For legal reasons by film I mean the reproductive media...no I DON'T mean the smear of ...no leave it)

Hmm, this is an interesting idea... maybe by 'flash', he was expecting a memory card full of voyeuristic images - worth £100?

cat_with_no_tail

Agreed, buyer is a douche. Ad is quite clear that flash is not included in sale but can be for an additional fee.

I had a guy once who bought a Gucci purse off my wife (wasn't her colour). He then emailed begging for it to be sent next day at no extra cost (ad said 1st class signed for) which she did (against my advice). He then emailed back 2 weeks later asking for a refund because he'd given it to his wife and she didn't like it

Some people are just special.

pesky_jones

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Agreed, buyer is a douche. Ad is quite clear that flash is not included in sale but can be for an additional fee.

I had a guy once who bought a Gucci purse off my wife (wasn't her colour). He then emailed begging for it to be sent next day at no extra cost (ad said 1st class signed for) which she did (against my advice). He then emailed back 2 weeks later asking for a refund because he'd given it to his wife and she didn't like it

Some people are just special.

Was he asking in vain for a refund or was there any possible way he could of got one? I've never used Ebay really but from what i've read here today i can't understand how it is so popular!

bluechair84

My response;
The article very clearly lists what is for sale. It then also very clearly states that the flash is not included in the sale and if you would like to purchase it to email me. It is your responsibility to read the advert carefully so that you know what you are buying - I have not written the advert with any deception and been very clear apart from one accidental typo. There is also a duvet in the pictures, perhaps it's no longer a good deal if you don't get my bedlinen in the post too? The pictures are reference material and often are unable to show the exact condition of an item which is why the written article is so important - you must have read it carefully to know the condition of the item and what else was included.
The contents of the advert will be packaged up and sent to you as per the title (E520 plus two lenses) and the many other things that were listed as included in the list of included things.
I'm sorry you don't feel that it is a good deal. If you have any queries about disparity between the text and the pictures, you should email the seller for clarification in future. Once again, there was no deception on my part in the advert. You didn't do your part as the buyer properly. If you feel that you have been unjustly deceived, I will happily accept the findings of eBay/Paypal if you raise it through their resolution centre.

His response;
dont confused buyer dont put pictures in item described if not including for sell ,refund my money if I knew it flash not including with item I wouldn't but or make any offer due to no worth it as camera you say has crack on lcd too ,no worth it.
(The LCD isn't actually cracked, just the protective cover over the screen which I thought was also clear in the advert).

rhext

He's quite articulate then! If you've got his money, I'd just send him the stuff and let him sort it out with eBay!

stubs

I have had a similar problem. A friend who is a semi pro ebay seller told me the only thing is to assume the person looking at the advert is a cross eyed illiterate moron who is out to do you and advertise accordingly.

cooldad

Personally I'd cancel the sale and relist. If you send it, and Ebay side with him, and they might - they generally side with the buyer, you'll have the money refunded automatically, and end up with whatever he actually sends back to you.
Which may or may not be what you send him.
You are in the right, but that doesn't mean you couldn't lose out.

benpinnick

Just send him some pictures of your stuff, and keep the actual goods. He clearly wants only to buy pictures not actual listed items. BUt on a serious note i would agree with CD. Ebay are a total bunch of ... well. you know the deal.

The Northern Monkey

cooldad wrote:

Personally I'd cancel the sale and relist. If you send it, and Ebay side with him, and they might - they generally side with the buyer, you'll have the money refunded automatically, and end up with whatever he actually sends back to you.
Which may or may not be what you send him.
You are in the right, but that doesn't mean you couldn't lose out.

+1

you're buggered if you send it and then paypal/ebay side with the buyer. They will refund the money to the buyer before you get your stuff back.

cat_with_no_tail

cooldad wrote:

Personally I'd cancel the sale and relist. If you send it, and Ebay side with him, and they might - they generally side with the buyer, you'll have the money refunded automatically, and end up with whatever he actually sends back to you.
Which may or may not be what you send him.
You are in the right, but that doesn't mean you couldn't lose out.

I agree.

I thought you'd already shipped it. As you haven't, don't. Is the sale eligible for "2nd chance offer" or whatever they call it. Whereby you can offer it to the next highest bidder?

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/second_ ... offer.html

I'd much rather do that than ship something to someone who clearly does not want it, as they're more likely to do some sort of damage to it just to get it returned.

Briggo

To be honest if I was the guy who bought the camera I'd also try and claim the camera that the picture was taken with too.

Oh and all the air within the picture.

rhext

The Northern Monkey wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Personally I'd cancel the sale and relist. If you send it, and Ebay side with him, and they might - they generally side with the buyer, you'll have the money refunded automatically, and end up with whatever he actually sends back to you.
Which may or may not be what you send him.
You are in the right, but that doesn't mean you couldn't lose out.

+1

you're buggered if you send it and then paypal/ebay side with the buyer. They will refund the money to the buyer before you get your stuff back.

On reflection, I think this is the best advice. 'Send it and keep the money' assumes that the dispute resolution process is fair and reasonable. If eBay tends to side with the buyer you'd be better off just refunding the money and starting again.

The Rookie

As this is all before postage, I'd just cancel the transaction, the 'put up her shut up' may focus his mind on whether he wants it or not, or whether he's just trying it on.

Once sold a mug on ebay, buyer said it arrived broken, I said fine, send me a picture of it broken.....nothing more heard, clearly just after a refund and keeping the mug!

mrmonkfinger

Oh yes, ebay morons. I remember them.

dont send it
file complaint with ebay about bidder messing you about
refund
relist

Its about all you can do. IIRC you get to keep the auction fees if a complaint is filed, or the relisting is free, or something like that. This guy is clearly being a dickwad and isn't worth the hassle.


Funnily enough, the only times I've ended up losing money (refund due to "broken" item) on ebay were with buyers who were a complete pain from the word go, as in "postage was too much" followed by "oh look, the thing was broken when it arrived, I want a refund".

bluechair84

Well, I gave him the strongly worded reply... In response... he told me he loves me. I'm not sure if it's his bad English or if maybe I should be flattered... I mean, clearly I think the latter of the two. But it could also be gibberish.

YeehaaMcgee

bluechair84 wrote:

I've use this to take landscapes in Snowdonia...

No you haven't, I been round and checked. It's all still there.
So yes, you're a deceitful liar.

jairaj

Did this get resolved? or is the buyer still trying it on with you?

bluechair84

I took the advice of the forum; I offered him the refund within a piece-of-my-mind email. In response he told me he loved me, and that he actually did want the camera.

weird Chinese guy wrote:

Sir you accusing me for what ? I accept you send camera I dont want flash maybe you done mistake but I am good person & I will give up BUT you say there is no crack or if there crack on screen only you need send one picture from screen if screen OK I love you send item but you have to send every things in pictures with out flash.I am not bad or rubbish person.

I refunded him, relisted the camera, and sold it a few days later for £20 more.

cooldad

I've got an ongoing one with an idiot as well. Bought a laptop using an offer which he accepted. After he accepted (all done through official Ebay channels) he sent a message saying as he'd sold it cheaply, could we 'cancel' the deal after delivery so he didn't have to pay the fees. He tried, officially, I declined.
I pointed out that this would be fraud, and even suggesting such a thing through Ebay's message system was a bit silly.
He's now asking me to pay his fees. Moron obviously.