Is cycling getting too much attention for doping?

jonomc4

I only ask this because of the upcoming case against the Spanish doping doctor.

Apparently 30% of his clients were cyclist and 70% from other sports - yet they are only prosecuting the cyclist clients - the others the Spanish government are not chasing after.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Once again cycling will be in the media headlights whilst the rest continue business as usual

RideOnTime

Yes, it's getting attention for the wrong reasons - BUT - just think how many millions have watched the Doprah interview - not a positive (excuse pun) message but a message nonetheless. Cycling makes the national press nearly everyday and along with all the negativity some positivity cannot but creep out.

RideOnTime

Oh yes and we've got 3 stages of 2014 TdF in England - not that that's got anything to do with this - but come on. 2013 and 2014 are going to be bumper years - aren't they.

shinyhelmut

No, cycling isn't getting too much attention for doping. Other sports aren't getting enough attention.

I'd love to see David Walsh turn his attention to Football, or tennis, or rugby.....

RideOnTime

Yes, they are. I'll answer my own question.

Richmond Racer

Yes is the answer.

The Spanish situation is diabological. And its a miracle the case is still going ahead, given that Spanish magistrates tried to get it closed down on a number of occasions.

RichN95.

ShinyHelmut wrote:

No, cycling isn't getting too much attention for doping. Other sports aren't getting enough attention.

I'd love to see David Walsh turn his attention to Football, or tennis, or rugby.....

No chance. The journalists in those events get pitch side seats. Seats that would cost you and I a lot of money if we could get hold of them. And they can't get close to a player without the right press pass. They won't give any of that up

By contrast in cycling they watch on big screen in a school canteen. It's worse than at home. And any old person can walk up to a rider at a race. As a sport, they can take it or leave it.

inkyfingers

Yes, I think it does get too much stick compared to other major sports like Tennis and Football. I'm getting to the stage where I would love to see a major doping scandal in another sport to even things up a bit.

Having said that, I do think that part of the problem is that many cycling fans are obsessed with talking about doping, which doesn't really help.

blazing_saddles

Remember when OP first broke?
All the cyclists were quickly named, the odd
exception quickly disappeared.
We were told it was only for the time being.
First they were going to "deal" with cycling and that
other sports would follow.

The ITF said: "Tennis players, what tennis players? We know nothing."

I guess we are still waiting. :roll:

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Remember when OP first broke?
All the cyclists were quickly named, the odd
exception quickly disappeared.
We were told it was only for the time being.
First they were going to "deal" with cycling and that
other sports would follow.

The ITF said: "Tennis players, what tennis players? We know nothing."

I guess we are still waiting. :roll:

Cycling had nasty foreigners they could reveal though. Ullrich, Basso, Jaksche, Scarponi etc. The others sports probably mostly involved Spaniards or Spanish teams

Richmond Racer

^This

danlikesbikes

Whilst I was going to say yes & follow the line that it puts our beloved sport in the spotlight for the wrong reasons I'm going to go with another view.

To outsiders, the general Joe public, cycling is full of people who use drugs. We then come back and say well it might have been in the 80's & 90's but that was in the past and it has now cleaned its act up ........ oh wait a minute no it hasn't and we still have riders returning form bans to win races and being booed by the spectators.

I actually think that this publicity over you know who (I have taken to not even mentioning his name any more) will for the sake of our sport i.e. if we want sponsors to continue to fund races we need to be more strict in our rules and consider 4 year or lifetime bans for drugs cheats.

Yes we have come a long way since the Festina affair but we are still plagued by drugs related stories hitting the headlines when it should be about the epic races themselves. The only solution is to kick cheating drugs cheats out and get back to having some good stories printed.

Richmond Racer

I think we need some equal reporting

Doesnt mean foot should be off the gas for cycling, but there is shocking inequality between the sports

Tennis is heading for a bit of a crossroads now. Talk is of them introducing the bio passport by 2014. They'd better because otherwise otherwise they're heading for their own OP/Festina/whatever

RideOnTime

Danlikesbikes wrote:

I actually think that this publicity over you know who (I have taken to not even mentioning his name any more) will for the sake of our sport i.e. if we want sponsors to continue to fund races we need to be more strict in our rules and consider 4 year or lifetime bans for drugs cheats.

DOprah Armstrong.

or made to ride bikes with square wheels.

ocdupalais

“We were always told that the patients this man [Fuentes} was treating were across a number of sports so it was disappointing that cycling was the only sport isolated,” David Howman WADA Director General

With the "Spanish authorities" preventing this trial from dealing with any sport other than cycling - has there been any official reason or justification for this?
Why isn't the UCI going mental about this? Fat Pat might garner himself some valuable popularity points considering the position he's currently in.
From an international viewpoint, the Spanish are all being tainted with the Dirty Cheating Tar Brush - aren't there any anti-doping Spanish cycling officials/groups/fans making a noise about any of this?

jonomc4

I think the post about the other cheats being in the Spanish national teams was very close to the truth - doping will never stand a chance of being removed when Governments actively get involved in cover ups for the sake of national identity!

At least I now know why Torres suddenly got a lot slower and only Ambramovich suffered because of that - so no big loss. I just get the impression the drugs and cycling are always used in the same sentence and it is removing all the personal joy I get from taking part in the sport and from watching it - let alone the slur on clean riders who win events - them I feel most sorry for.

seward4or5

Danlikesbikes wrote:

I actually think that this publicity over you know who (I have taken to not even mentioning his name any more) will for the sake of our sport i.e. if we want sponsors to continue to fund races we need to be more strict in our rules and consider 4 year or lifetime bans for drugs cheats.

Voldemort?

Rodrego Hernandez

Tennis players, soccer players and marathon runners.

A few really big british names are amongst those mentioned which may explain the news black out!

dish_dash

The sports section on the Today programme today had an interesting bit where the presenter asked Jonathan Legard (I think) if doping was an issue in Tennis. The conclusion was yes but not enough was known. There is definately an opportunity for a journalist to do some digging in the Tennis world... I'm getting the sense that post-Armstrong there might be a bit more questioning going on. Not holding my breath mind...

ocdupalais

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Tennis players, soccer players and marathon runners.

A few really big british names are amongst those mentioned which may explain the news black out!

Why would the Spanish authorities not welcome the attention on the foreigners then?

Richmond Racer

OCDuPalais wrote:

“We were always told that the patients this man [Fuentes} was treating were across a number of sports so it was disappointing that cycling was the only sport isolated,” David Howman WADA Director General

With the "Spanish authorities" preventing this trial from dealing with any sport other than cycling - has there been any official reason or justification for this?
Why isn't the UCI going mental about this? Fat Pat might garner himself some valuable popularity points considering the position he's currently in.
From an international viewpoint, the Spanish are all being tainted with the Dirty Cheating Tar Brush - aren't there any anti-doping Spanish cycling officials/groups/fans making a noise about any of this?

To be fair to Fat Pat, he did kick off about it when it became known that other sports wouldnt be included in the case, as he kicked off about the Spanish dragging their feet. Cant find all the articles from the time, but here's one
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/operaci ... ys-mcquaid

As for any AD Spanish cycling groups/fans etc...there dont seem to be any, or none that are really vocal. Thats not me being xenophobic or owt but doping is just the word that you dont speak about in Spain. Its all mixed up with:

1) Indurain as the Great Hero who put Spain back on the global map after the dark Franco decades, and reinstated Spanish pride - and therefore no hint of questioning whether Indurain rode clean must be allowed

2) Catholicism - to confess, you first have to truly believe that you did something wrong in the first place...

3)..which leads on to the final point - doping's ingrained in the Spanish sporting culture as something that's a valid/understandable tool for athletes to be able to be successful

Lightning

ShinyHelmut wrote:

No, cycling isn't getting too much attention for doping. Other sports aren't getting enough attention.

^ This.

I find it incredibly annoying the amount of arguments I get into with other people because they attack me with "oh cycling is just doping yada yada" and then proceed to say football, tennis, etc are clean because they don't hear it in the news and no one gets caught. Imagine how it is now with the whole Lance + Oprah thing. I can defend myself all I want but most people just believe what they see on the news and think they know the whole truth.

ocdupalais

Richmond Racer wrote:

As for any AD Spanish cycling groups/fans etc...there dont seem to be any, or none that are really vocal. Thats not me being xenophobic or owt but doping is just the word that you dont speak about in Spain. Its all mixed up with:

1) Indurain as the Great Hero who put Spain back on the global map after the dark Franco decades, and reinstated Spanish pride - and therefore no hint of questioning whether Indurain rode clean must be allowed

2) Catholicism - to confess, you first have to truly believe that you did something wrong in the first place...

3)..which leads on to the final point - doping's ingrained in the Spanish sporting culture as something that's a valid/understandable tool for athletes to be able to be successful

Mmm....
It's been alluded to elsewhere, but my suspicion is that Judge Serrano, who's been presiding over the case, is sitting on some incendiary evidence (or at least strong signs) that some famous football and tennis players are/were Fuentes customers. As you mentioned, Spain needs it's sporting heroes to remain heroes right now - sport has always served as a useful political pacifier and distraction for the masses.
To show how riddled the situation in Spain seems to be, Marta Dominguez a World and European champion steeplechaser and middle-distance runner was arrested during Operacion Galgo, and implicated in Op Puerto, was Vice President of the Spanish Athletics Federation (!)

Many cycling fans, on here and elsewhere, talk about being fed up with the "cycling's just full of cheating dopers" jibes. Personally, it doesn't affect my love of the sport much at all. I get a swift blow to the solar plexus when I discover yet another performance was "enhanced", then try to turn my attention from the darkness into the patches of light.

What get's my goat at the moment is cycling being turned into the skip of dirty bloody waste out of the back of the abattoir of Sporting Ideals.
I wouldn't wish ill on any other sport (ok, maybe football and tennis a little bit - but that's largely resentment at the money/attention they receive), but when you look at how much media time/space is devoted to football it wouldn't take many big investigations for the Big Gnarly Finger of Disapproval to start jabbing away there before public perception shifted. Then cyclists can breathe a sigh of relief and get back on with the job of doping to compete... did I just write that out loud?

The more other sport's respective authorities try to suppress these stories/investigations, the greater the damage when the levees break.

There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Puerto thread - I think we're going to need one.

rick_chasey

Nah.

Armstrong gets too much attention. Not doping.

sherer

think this shows the joke of asking national federations to investigate their own athletes. Is anyone surprised that the Spanish aren't going to investigate Nadal and others ?

Can CAS appeal this later, or even just leak the full OP list of clients ?

LeicesterLad

Even Banksy knows the score...

Nick Fitt

For as long as cycling is exposed and in the press, the thirst for doping scandal elsewhere is quenched. And of course, football is too powerful. I would bet you could stop a World Cup if it had the same controls as a tour both leading up to and during. There is tons of media speculation but as long as the Spanish Govt (apparently) covers up the whole thing, it amounts to nothing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... trial.html.

Imagine the furor in Spain if FIFA was asked to leave the last World Cup winners spot vacant and have all medals and the Trophy returned

0 7 - 1 2 - 2 0 0 6

Le Monde: Fuentes treated Real Madrid and Barca

Documents obtained by Le Monde suggest that Dr Eufemiano Fuentes has had dealings with some major players in the football world

Jeff Jones
Procycling.com
07/12/2006

Top football clubs Real Madrid and FC Barcelona used the services of Dr Eufemiano Fuentes, according to a report in
Eufemiano Fuentes
French newspaper Le Monde. Fuentes is at the centre of Operacion Puerto, which up until now has widely been reported as another cycling doping scandal. However, Dr Fuentes has always maintained that he treated other top sportspeople, such as footballers, tennis players, athletes, handball players and boxers.

"I worked with Spanish first and second division clubs," he said in an interview to the French newspaper. "I worked with several clubs at the same time, sometimes directly with the footballers themselves, sometimes by sharing my knowledge with the teams doctors. I was the doctor of the Las Palmas team in 2002 during a year when it player in first division... I had an offer from an Italian club but I turned it down.

Death threats

Fuentes was asked directly which football clubs he had worked with. "I can't tell, I have received death threats," he said. "I was told that if I told certain things, my family and myself could have serious problems. I've been threatened three times and it's not going to happen a fourth time.

"There are sports against which you cannot go against, because they have access to very powerful legal means to defend themselves. And it could also cost the current chief of the sport his post."

Outside Puerto

Le Monde interviewed Dr Fuentes at his home in Las Palmas in the Canary Islands. It based another story on two A4 sheets it obtained that were not seized in Operación Puerto. The paper underlined that the Guardia Civil did not search Dr Fuentes' Canary Islands residence - only his apartments in Madrid. And that there were some of his clients that the police did not discover.

The documents, in Dr Fuentes' handwriting, allegedly detail the preparation plans for the two clubs for the 2005-2006 seasons. The plan showed that the main objective of FC Barcelona was the Champions League in May, which it won, as well as having the players peak for the World Cup.

The training programs include circles and 'IG' symbols that correspond to preparation or rest periods. These are the same symbols used by Dr Fuentes in his plans for the Liberty Seguros riders, according to Le Monde. The Spanish Guardia Civil believe that these symbols correspond to anabolic steroids (circle) and Insulin Growth Factor - IGF-1 (IG).

Other symbols are used in the team plans, including a rounded 'e', and a circle with a dot in it. These are supposed to correspond to blood transfusions and the administration of EPO. Some individual players had tailored programs, in case they were injured or tired.

Eufemiano Fuentes did not have a formal relationship with either FC Barcelona or Real Madrid. His plans were allegedly sent via the team doctor or one of the players. Ex-pro Jesus Manzano, who first alerted police to the dealings of Fuentes, said that he saw a Real Madrid player while visiting the doctor. Nevertheless, FC Barcelona did try to hire Dr Fuentes in both 1996 and 2002, but both times he refused.

"I committed no crime"

Fuentes is adamant that in providing his services to athletes, he was fulfilling his role as a doctor. "I have committed no crime against public health," he said. "In 29 years of practicing, none of my clients have ever had a health problem.

"If an athlete endangers his health by practising his discipline, I react first as a doctor. If the medicine used to protect him is on the list of banned substances, it's of secondary importance. Doctors should have the freedom and sufficient autonomy to be able to decide how to manage a particular treatment, regardless of whether it's a drug or not."

Fuentes defended his methods, taking a more liberal view towards doping than various sports governing bodies. "I consider doping as the use or the abuse of a substance or drug by a person who doesn't have the knowledge or experience or the ability to use them… Medicine doesn't kill if it's in the right hands."

"Top level sport is unhealthy," he stated. "When I did my doctoral thesis, I determined the muscular damage done to a cyclist in a stage race. This is what's dangerous for the health of the athletes, the overloaded calendars, the criminal courses designed by the organisers for the benefit of a spectacle."

He also argued against the 50% hematocrit limit set by the UCI. "Now, it's healthier to do the Tour de France with a hematocrit of 53% rather than one of 31%. Let a rider attack the Alps with a hematocrit of 31. That is putting his life in danger."

Three weeks from now, the case against Eufemiano Fuentes is going to start, at January 28. More than six and a half years passed since there has been a raid of the house above, in Calle Caídos de la División Azul, where Fuentes gave blood transfusions to his athletes. According to the spanish justice the trial will take two months, up to 35 witnesses will be called to give evidence under oath. Will spanish football be in the spotlight?

The accused: Eufemiano Fuentes, his wife sister Yolanda, his aide José Merino Batres, the trainer Ignacio Labarta, and the former chiefs of the cycling-teams ONCE (Manolo Saiz) and Kelme (Vicente Belda). The spanish newspaper El Pais wrote back in September 2012 that these six may be sentenced to two years in prison because of crimes against public health.

Witnesses will be a lot of policemen as well as some cyclists: among them Alberto Contador, Ivan Basso and Jörg Jaksche. Footballers are neither accused nor called to be a witness. But if the Madrilenian prosecutors are serious, there could be talk about drugs in football. The connections are tight.

Eufemiano Fuentes // ddp

Eufemiano Fuentes used to work with Walter Viru. Viru should have been arrested in summer of 2006 at Operacion Puerto, too, but the Spanish Guardia Civil didn’t have enough workforce to do so. Together with Fuentes Viru administrated the drug-system at the cyclingteam Kelme, whose former manager is now one of the six accused persons. Furthermore Viru had his own drug network, which the police discovered three years later at Operacion Grial. In November 2009 policemen searched 15 medical practices, pharmacists and flats and found large amounts of human growth hormone, Epo and other drugs.

Virus clients have been cyclists and athletes from track and field. And Viru had close contact to the next drug-doctor, to Luis del Moral. In an interview with the French sportspaper L’Equipe, the whistleblower Jesus Manzano says, that del Moral has been a good friend of Walter Viru. Viru warned del Moral – according to Manzano, every time drug-testers were on their way to visit US Postal. So we get round to football.

Connections into football
Luis del Moral worked from 1999 until 2003 as a teamdoctor for the cyclingteam US Postal. Del Moral continued to mentor athletes after he left US Postal in 2003. He worked in Valencia at the university and as a consultant. The institute he worked for cares about everything an athlete can dream of: nutrition, personal training, sports medicine. Based at this institute del Moral worked for FC Valencia and FC Barcelona. The English website of the institute is shut down today. The site wrote, that del Moral is: “Medical Adviser for various football teams, most notably Barcelona CF and Valencia CF”. We reported on this in German back in October and made a screenshot:

Luis Garcia del Morals list of clients// screenshot performa.es

The connection of del Moral to football has been reported in different media. The Telegraph asked Barcelona and Valencia, if Luis Garcia del Moral worked for them. Barcelona said, that the club has looked up its staff documents: del Moral never got paid by the club. Barcelona however didn’t want to guarantee that del Moral has been paid to help individual players over a short period of time.

According to the Telegraph, del Morals connections to Barcelona date to the season 2003/2004 – the year del Moral quit at Armstrongs US Postal. Since then its medical unit has been turned upside down, Barcelona wrote to the Telegraph. Barcelona didn’t want to tell who has been in charge for the medical unit back then.

The Telegraph tried to reach FC Valencia by phone and mail, but the club didn’t respond. According to some reporting in Spain del Moral worked for Valencia in 2005, but only for a couple of months. We found some links (via tennishasasteroidproblem.com), which show the connection between del Moral and Valencia. First El Pais wrote about del Morals work for Valencia. Players criticized the work of del Moral and its colleagues in the fall of 2005, although del Moral & Co at that point have been in charge only for some months. Four months later the Spanish daily AS reported, that del Moral and his colleagues have been fired at the end of 2005. Apparently del Moral worked for Valencia, although it lasted only about half a year.

Eufemiano Fuentes was in charge of football clubs, too. According to French newspaper Le Monde, rumor has it that the Spanish doping physician Eufemiano Fuentes looked after Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, Betis Sevilla, and FC Valencia. Barcelona sued the paper. Le Monde’s Head of Sports couldn’t provide the court with any physical evidence to substantiate his claim and was ordered to pay 15.000 Euro. Fuentes didn’t say a word in court. “I got death threats three times. There will be no fourth time,” he told Le Monde at the time.

[Update January 10 2013, 18.33: While Fuentes was in custody, he told a guy in his cell, that if he would tell the truth Spain would have to give back its Eurpean Championship title from 2008. Here is an old report citing this event (in French); tanks to @hem_arsenal.]

Star of German Bundesliga – a client of Fuentes?
Trusted sources tell us too that there have been football players visiting Fuentes. Among these players is someone who later played in the German Bundesliga. The name can’t be revealed, because these claims have not been substantiated. We have access to a small portion of the documents regarding Fuentes. They mention only cyclists. Did the Spanish justice ever investigate the names of any soccer players? Will it now?

Today Eufemiano Fuentes lives on the Canary Islands. In 2011, he still worked as a physician for the third-division soccer club UD Las Palmas. Allegedly, he continues to supply athletes with drugs. Fuentes didn’t respond to requests for comment.

[Update January 8, 9.57: Velonews reports that the judges in Madrid will concentrate on cyling. "While evidence initially pointed to a doping conspiracy thought to include athletes across several sports, including tennis, athletics and soccer, the judge formerly handling the case centered the investigation only on cycling."]

meagain

To OP Q, "yes, obviously". And for the reasons given by others. Simply a matter of common sense. It was always clear to those who wanted to see that no one won SEVEN Tours clean. Ditto that rugby players have doubled in weight over past 40-50 years yet run faster!

Cycling is just an easy target compared with other professional (the clue is in the word!) entertainment - sorry, sport - industries.

ocdupalais

Cheers Nick F for all that Fuentes stuff - although I struggled to discern where one source/article started or finished. Certainly filled a few holes in my piecing together of events, names and situations.
As with the sudden dropping of Fed case against Armstrong in US, clearly a heavy political influence on matters in Spain.

Get ready for another great heap of sh!te onto the reputation of cycling...

RideOnTime

I just don't think some of these posts are long enough. :roll: :roll:

ocdupalais

RideOnTime wrote:

I just don't think some of these posts are long enough. :roll: :roll:

Could you elaborate?