Titanium - which manufacturer?

Ben6899

Alright chaps and chapesses, here's a First World problem for you to help me solve.

I am going to build a high spec titanium road bike this spring. I cannot decide which manufacturer to go with, mainly because I have no experience with the frames themselves or the sales and service. So far I have considered the following, in no particular order (I appreciate the prices will vary, but I am generally looking to drop £2K on the frame):

Pretorius
Firefly
Enigma
Litespeed
van Nicholas
Genesis
Lynskey
Burls

Does anyone have any thoughts, observations or experiences? Positive, negative or ambivalent?

Cheers!

Ben

jordan_217

I've had my Enigma Echo for nearly a year now. Love it!

I bought (the complete bike) directly from Enigma and have to say from the initial phone call with owner, Jim right through to taking delivery of the bike, they were an absolute pleasure to deal with. I visited Enigma HQ nr. Eastbourne to have a look at their bikes, have a fitting and a testride. Also had a look around the workshop and met a few of the team. Very nice bunch, no question was left unanswered. They know their bikes! After spending a month or so test riding other bikes in Alu, Ti and Carbon, I decided the Echo was for me.

I've had one (minor) issue - a headset cartridge developed some play within a few months. I emailed Jim directly and a new cartridge was with me the next day. No probs since.

Pros:

1. Excellent company to do business with - great customer care.
2. Nice to have input into the build of your bike.
3. Frames are beautifully built. NB - Custom frames made in the UK, off-the-peg sizes are made in the far East. (no big deal!). IIRC the plan is to fabricate all their frames in the UK in the near future.
4. The ride is sublime - comfortable and smooth but still responsive and more than capable of pressing on when you fancy a blast.
5. Very balanced and sure footed on descents.
6. Lifetime warranty on their Ti frames - I can't see Enigma going under any time soon.


Cons:

1. I sometimes miss the stiffness of my Scott CR1 but in contrast I don't miss my back and arms being shaken to bits after a few hours in the saddle.
2. Doesn't feel as nimble or as light as I'd like on steeper/longer climbs. (I think I was spoiled with my Scott)

In all, I'd thoroughly recommend an Enigma both in terms of the frames/bikes and as a company to deal with.

schweiz

I can only comment on my Van Nicholas Euros.

It's great! I wasn't sure about it to start off with but I think that I thought that it would be somehow a 'magical' ride because I spent so much on it (it was fitted with full Dura Ace 7900).

My old BMC Streetfire SSX with 6500 Ultegra still felt 'faster'.

I now have a BMC Racemachine onto which I fitted the Dura Ace and the Van Nicholas has Ultegra 6700 and has been relegated to my everyday/bad weather/winter/commuting bike. That means that it sees a lot of use and it still looks like new, but I guess that is the advantage of any brushed Ti frame and I actually prefer to ride the VN on multi day rides. It'll be the bike I take to the training camp in Spain this year. I won't worry about it getting damaged in the bike trailer and I know that after 6-7 days riding I'll still be ache and pain free!

mroli

Ben - you might want to pop in and see Condor as well seeing as you're in London: depending on what you want, they have the Gran Fondo and the Moda - both "mile eaters" rather than race bikes.... Both at £2k.

jordan_217

Might want to add this to your list too:

http://www.epic-cycles.co.uk/kinesisGranFondoTi.html

Apparently a very nice do-it-all bike.

Ben6899

Thanks for the advice so far, chaps.

I don't want an all out race bike, but I also don't want a mile-eater; something in between (difficult customer, I know!)... so the Moda and Gran Fonda might be slightly too relaxed in the geometry stakes. It won't hurt to have a walk to Condor though - they're open later on Wednesdays.

noiseboyfeetman

The Lynskey Sportive is a decent frame, good quality welds and nice frame detailing. Ride quality is excellent and its great for long days in the saddle soaking up the bumps along the way.

If I was looking at dropping £2k on frame alone i'd personally give Enigma a call and see about a custom frame, or alternatively speak to Fat Birds as they do good offers on frames with free headsets and forks. The VN Astreus is a lovely looking frame that comes in just in budget, whist the Lynskey Helix is just over, but bear in mind that's with headset and fork.

http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/5901/products/van-nicholas-astraeus-frame-2013-with-free-fork-and-headset.aspx
http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/6028/products/lynskey-helix-road-race-frame-with-free-fork-and-headset---brushed.aspx

il_principe

Add legend to that list.

http://www.legendfactory.eu

Ben6899

Il Principe wrote:

Add legend to that list.

http://www.legendfactory.eu

Wow. They look nice! There's a UK contact number/email, but do any places in London stock them?

Wrath Rob

Ben6899 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Add legend to that list.

http://www.legendfactory.eu

Wow. They look nice! There's a UK contact number/email, but do any places in London stock them?

Velosport in Putney and Le Beau Velo, Shoreditch are the 2 that I know of. I've seen 2 of the frames in the flesh and they are a thing of beauty, looking like they were formed out of a single piece of Ti. Shame they cost £9k

I got a Qoroz recently thorugh Velosport, custom built to my own geometry with disc brakes instead of regular canti's. I absolutely love it, so much so that when I get back on to my carbon Sunday bike which I'd previously thought was easily comfortable enough to do 8+ hour rides, it feels all harsh and buzzy and makes me yearn for the Ti again. At least until I get to a hill where the lighter weight and better power transfer come into their own. Cost was in the same ballpark as you're looking at so maybe worth adding them to your list.

il_principe

Wrath Rob wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Add legend to that list.

http://www.legendfactory.eu

Wow. They look nice! There's a UK contact number/email, but do any places in London stock them?

Velosport in Putney and Le Beau Velo, Shoreditch are the 2 that I know of. I've seen 2 of the frames in the flesh and they are a thing of beauty, looking like they were formed out of a single piece of Ti. Shame they cost £9k

They are stunning. Also can be had for cheaper than £9k I think. I've put my Ti plans on hold until I can afford a Legend, and the owner has been in the business for years - used to build frames for Viner I think.

Ben6899

Thanks for the advice, chaps.

Any thoughts on Pretorius? Another London-based outfit just off the Kingsland Road.

mikenetic

Ben6899 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, chaps.

Any thoughts on Pretorius? Another London-based outfit just off the Kingsland Road.

Yep, they're a really decent outfit. Doing a refit on their shop/workshop right now, but it'll be done in a week or two.

They do a range of bikes, offer custom geometries and can do custom paint finishes (should you want one), and have bike fitting facilities on site.

It's a relatively small operation, but Jean-Claude is an ex-pro and the benefit is that it's a very personal service.

Also, a few of the brands you mention are stocked by Mosquito on Essex Road, would be worth dropping in there too.

styxd

The one with the best warranty!

NOT litespeed

Genesis - seems pointless when the steel one is just as good but loads cheaper

Lynskey - Dunno, they all seem to break

Go for one of the UK options, Enigma look good. Or legend look awesome, but they are probably outside your budget?

Or get a custom built stainless frame from someone good

MattC59

Love my Enigma, the frame is superb; fast, light, comfortable and stiff, but that's only half of the story. Dealing with the guys in Eastbourne was a pleasure, their service was second to none.

musa

If you decide VN, be ready for their customer service, which is shoddy at best of times. Know someone who had an issue with their frame (misaligned), took few calls and whatever to get a replacement. Enigma seem good but that is as far I know with regards to Ti

nathancom

I also love my Enigma. I really doubt you will find a frame that rides better. However, if you are looking for something more unique, and some of the names on that list suggest you are, then I would look at Darren Crisp at crisptitanium.com. I don't know how much one of his frames would cost but they look fantastic.

flasher

I have a VN Euros and a Burls both are a great ride and very nicely put together, the advantage of the Burls is that they are all made to order so you can get exactly the style and geometry of frame you like for the price of an off the shelf Ti frame. Justin's (Burls) easy to deal with and I would thoroughly recommend. Good luck with your choice 8)

dodgy

The problem with asking for recommendations, you'll just get people mainly recommending whatever they bought themselves

on-yer-bike

Spin Spitfire Mk III? Good review in Cyclist.

waterford123

Go mad get a Serotta or Seven.

zoltansocrates

try sabbath bikes unless you hae already chosen
they make some really quirky frames and are fantastic value

loismustdie

I have a Van Nicholas Astraeus - it's stunningly good, stiff but comfortable and fantastic looking. I've also got a Trek Madone which I've not ridden once in the two years I've had the VN.

The first one I had cracked on the seat tube, just above the bottom bracket (non drive side). I dropped the frame off on a Friday and the replacement (newer version) was with me by Tuesday.

jam5ie76

dodgy wrote:

The problem with asking for recommendations, you'll just get people mainly recommending whatever they bought themselves

Yeah bloomin' people takin' from bloomin' experience! :P

janwal

Have a look at Kinesis granfondo Ti. Love mine,much more comfy ride after carbon Scott CR1.Not seen a bad review on it yet. Comes with a good carbon fork. It will also leave you with plenty of change from £2k to put towards other kit.

dbb

i have only dealt with enigma.
i bought an effision from them about 3 years ago. it is the one with carbon seat stays, so the best of both worlds in my view.

when you are spending that amount of money on a frame, you want to be pretty confident that the company are going to stand by their product if and when required - and you don't want to be messed about!
i can vouch for enigma on that. i had a problem with my frame about 2 1/2 years after i bought it. i took a photo of the crack and sent it to them. immediately they replied saying send the bike to us and we will replace the frame for you and rebuild the bike - and i only bought the frame from them!
i now have the current model effision and i love it.
be warned - the polished frame stands attracts a lot of attention from bike lovers.
it is easy to keep clean.
in terms of riding - i used it to ride the etape last year (200km ride) and spend a week in the Pyrenees = perfect.
i also use it for criterium racing - also very good. this baby corners like it is on rails.
a club member who is an ex Italian pro took it for a spin and reported to me with a big smile on his face "i didn't expect it to be that good!"

anyway - more food for thought for you. for what its worth, it took me 2 years to buy mine, i have no regrets and i am very happy with the company.
good luck

Ben6899

Chaps (I presume!),

Many thanks for all the input to this thread. I went into Mosquito Bikes at the weekend. They stock Moots and Lynskey frames. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and offered me a test ride - when the weather improves - on the Lynskey R230.

I have also looked at Spin an Enigma in more detail and I am about to drop both of them an email (not ideal talking on the phone when I'm at work!) to see how I would go about making the step from internet browsing to seeing something in the flesh and talking about fit, builds etc.

FWIW, dbb, the Effusion also caught my eye. Like you say, it's best of both worlds: comfort and a bit more stiffness in the rear triangle thanks to the carbon seat-stays. I will keep this thread updated with my thoughts.

dbb

when you are talking to enigma, make sure that you ask about the anodised finish. this is definitely something that i would consider if buying now. let's face it, when buying a bike like this, it is the details that make a difference.

tomisitt

I saw the Spins at the bike show last year, then called them up and arranged a test-ride from their place in Stratford on Avon. Went out for a couple of hours in the Cotswolds, and loved the bike. The guys at Spin were incredibly helpful, and I ended up buying a Spitfire MkIII frame/fork/stem/seatpost and some Speedmetal 30 wheels. I then got it built up with Campag Chorus.

The finished article can be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12875930&hilit=Project+Ti

It's not the stiffest bike ever, and I'm sure full-on racers would find it a bit flexi, but for a middle-aged git like me for whom comfort is important, but without wanting some hideous audax bike, the Spin is perfect. Light (7.25kg), supple, beautiful to look at and beautifully made. I looked at other Ti bikes, but for me the Spin offered the best combination of looks, ride, and price. Since having it built up, I've replaced the wheels with a set of hand-mades from Strada (Archetype rims, R45 hubs and 24/28 CX Ray spokes) - a shameless indulgence, but oh so lovely!

As someone else pointed out, anyone who's spent £2k+ on their bike is unlikely to say it's rubbish, and I'm no different. I didn't really see myself as a Van Nic or Enigma kind of guy, and although some of Spin's marketing is a bit OTT, the bike a lovely lovely piece of kit.

mjbennett

styxd wrote:

The one with the best warranty!

NOT litespeed

Genesis - seems pointless when the steel one is just as good but loads cheaper

Lynskey - Dunno, they all seem to break

Go for one of the UK options, Enigma look good. Or legend look awesome, but they are probably outside your budget?

Or get a custom built stainless frame from someone good

Lynskey has a lifetime warranty, one of the reasons I chose them for one of my bikes. Oh, and mine haven't broke :oops: