Ever designed your own?
bluechair84
Posts: 4,352
I've got an itch, to knock together my own frame! Let's see... I can't weld, I don't know the geo of my current bike, and I know nothing about linkage kinematics. How badly could it go wrong? Such a project is really just me mucking about and wanting to teach myself new skills such as how geo affects handling. Is welding actually that hard to get right with some practise? How easy is it to get tubes with very specific diameters, like the headtube and seat tube? Can tubes be easily manipulated into curves? The number of questions is endless (and I'm aware of the custom places) but I'm just testing the waters with crowd-sourced intelligence. This would very much be a garden shed project.
So, two points for discussion - what would you need to know to design then make your own bike frame and what kind of thing would you design?
So, two points for discussion - what would you need to know to design then make your own bike frame and what kind of thing would you design?
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Harder than you think
Maybe try something simpler to start.
I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
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Parktools0 -
bluechair84 wrote:So, two points for discussion - what would you need to know to design then make your own bike frame and what kind of thing would you design?
I could but i would not."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 0187,d.d2k.
There's always thispity those who don't drink, the way they feel when they wake is the best they will feel all day
voodoo hoodoo0 -
If you have the cash and time to waste... Why not give it a bash?0
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You'll only be doing steel and then talk about linkages......steel FS is just a daft idea IMO, and even those that do it just make a front triangle and use a mainstream rear.
Can't weld and don't know how to design a frame, Orange will snap you up then - ;-)Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
I'll just knock some industrial bean tins square and glue em together. I could be onto the next PatriotThe Beginner wrote:Can't weld and don't know how to design a frame, Orange will snap you up then - ;-)
Woodmonkey wrote:
Looks like this guy used some ready made bits by the looks of the bottom bracket assembly. That could be a handy starter. I'll have a read through the site and see where he got them from.
What about welding steel or alu. Is it an art that takes years to perfect?0 -
Aluminium, forget it. Very specialised.
Steel - couple of bits of angle iron - fairly easy. Tubes that you want to stay together and not kill you - fairly hard.
All good handmade frames should be brazed anyway.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
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Parktools0 -
bluechair84 wrote:So, two points for discussion - what would you need to know to design then make your own bike frame and what kind of thing would you design?
What you need is a helpful friendly framebuilder to ask these questions of.0 -
Myself, I would get a pro CAD user to mock one up from my drawings and have it 3D printed.
For extra strength, I would honeycomb the frame tube walls (like a doughnut in cross-section view) since many printers output plastic parts (some do metals as well) - this is copying the idea of skeletal bone.
For the frame design, I would just copy, modify and incorporate all the good features that I've experienced from other frames that I've previous had.0 -
Doughnut is very apt.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
mrmonkfinger wrote:bluechair84 wrote:So, two points for discussion - what would you need to know to design then make your own bike frame and what kind of thing would you design?
What you need is a helpful friendly framebuilder to ask these questions of.
I thought there would be at least a small number of people on here who might have thought the same thing. I'd feel kinda guilty about asking a frame builder about their trade having no intention of purchasing their services. I might however consider a welding course. As said above, I'd like to learn some new skills.0 -
You can go on frame building courses (a mate has) which includes buiilding a frame at the end (he's still waiting to do this bit), before he did it he built himself a 36er frame which I've tried out, he could weld anyway before he started.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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There was a guy who in the past few months built a carbon hardtail jobby, no idea what he was called but you could dig around and try to find the thread I guess...0
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Its in the YMBCurrently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Street trials frame I made one evening out of recycled bike tubing and other scraps (reydolds, t45 and hi tensile mix). No real effort put into it, all done with a hacksaw, file, a bodged up roller for the stays, angle grinder and mig welder.
Good fun to make, and even more fun to ride! Had it a few years now and it has taken some proper abuse, everybody who rides it has loved the geo and how well balanced it feels for BMX/trials style moves. No signs of giving way yet, unlike my Curtis frame which lasted a few months before cracking at the brazed headtube). Desperately needs a respray, poundland paint wasn't the best choice! But then at a total cost of £5 to build and spray the frame, who cares?
Personally I say go for it if you can find some old bikes to hack apart and recycle. It's a bit of fun, and you may end up with some pleasing results, and if you don't at least it will have cost very little. I had started building a full sus frame, but it got sidelined due to my cars taking priority0 -
I had the idea of doing the exact same thing for an a-level project in the future (doing GCSE's at the moment) but there is so much complex designing and building in terms of measurement tolerances and alignment , plus you would need a frame jig and loads of other specialist tools. So I would imagine you need quite a lot of skill and cash to buy all the tools and materials.
But hey, you could still have a go...Specialized Hardrock 06
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“…get it in your head, then there’s nothing else important for the next couple of hours than getting that particular line done…” – Danny MacAskill0 -
A frame jig does not have to be complex, mine was simply some forks, a piece of square stock, some threaded rod and a level. Easy peasssssy0
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I've enough spare time generally to give it a few hours here and there and would happily through a year at it. My biggest limitation is space. I'll happily learn to weld and design it and build a jig too. In a year or so I'lll probably be moving house and hope to have a garage - that's when the fun will start.
Not a bad looking trials frame that, like it 0 -
Learning to weld neatly will be the biggest hurdle, especially MIG with thin materials. I have been doing it for about 5 years now (as a hobby) and i'm still far from great although i only really ever do automotive stuff.0
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I've been reading about welding alu, it sounds like TIG welding is prohbitively expensive and MIG can make a bit of a mess as PO says /\ , I'd like to do alu rather than a steel frame. Is it harder to make strong joints with a MIG welder?0
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you'd be better off designing it, getting all the tubes cut etc then taking it to someone who can weld. i used to work with a guy who made saracen frames when the were still made in coventry by hand, but any decent welder would do it.pity those who don't drink, the way they feel when they wake is the best they will feel all day
voodoo hoodoo0 -
bluechair84 wrote:I've been reading about welding alu, it sounds like TIG welding is prohbitively expensive and MIG can make a bit of a mess as PO says /\ , I'd like to do alu rather than a steel frame. Is it harder to make strong joints with a MIG welder?
MIG welding aluminium is not good. It will be messy and mechanically useless. The only way to weld aluminium for bike frames is TIG but that takes time to learn to do well.
For steel it's easy to make a MIG weld look pretty with no strength at all. MIG isn't really suitable for small tubes, it takes half an inch of welding before you start geting any penetration so half your weld is useless. TIG is much stronger, you can control it better and the weld will be much cleaner with less impurtities which will cause cracks.
Brazing can also be very good for steel frames, possibly stronger than TIG because it allows the joint to flex more without cracking.
I worked as a welder & fabricator for several years, it takes no time to learn to make a tidy weld. It takes a years of welding full time with regular testing to learn to weld properly. Pipe and tube joints are the most difficult to do properly because you are working with metal as a liquid and as you get to vertical and overhead positions you are fighting against gravity to get the weld where you need it in the root of the joint.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Crap. Looking like the ambition is a dead end... This is very sad news.0
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bluechair84 wrote:Crap. Looking like the ambition is a dead end... This is very sad news.
Could always try this:
http://www.thebicycleacademy.org/
Learn to do it properly.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
RockmonkeySC wrote:bluechair84 wrote:Crap. Looking like the ambition is a dead end... This is very sad news.
Could always try this:
http://www.thebicycleacademy.org/
Learn to do it properly.
This could be interesting, I'll have a good look at that. Cheers0 -
I think a good place to start would be modifiying a cheap hi tensile steel frame (second hand old bike) to get an idea for geometry (plus you get your bb shell head tube and dropouts etc.) and it is a lot easier to mig weld and is quite forgiving especially if you uses plugs when you weld it, look up rat rod bikes for frame moding, have fun dude.-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Mongoose Teocali
Giant STP0
Why are MTB economics; spend twice as much as you intended, but only half as much as you wish you could afford? :roll:0 -
captainfly wrote:I think a good place to start would be modifiying a cheap hi tensile steel frame (second hand old bike) to get an idea for geometry (plus you get your bb shell head tube and dropouts etc.) and it is a lot easier to mig weld and is quite forgiving especially if you uses plugs when you weld it, look up rat rod bikes for frame moding, have fun dude.
MIG weld is not suitable for bike frames. It WILL fail. Even a skilled welder wouldn't be able to get a good MIG weld on small diameter, thin wall tube. You can't get enough heat in to it to get any fusion. The weld will basically just sit on the surface.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Fair comment I am not a welder and have only ever done bits and pieces mostly sculptural work, but have built some tubular works with plugs and mig welds it's just easier than arc welding.-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Mongoose Teocali
Giant STP0
Why are MTB economics; spend twice as much as you intended, but only half as much as you wish you could afford? :roll:0 -
Yeah, but were you riding your sculptures down bumpy hills?captainfly wrote:Fair comment I am not a welder and have only ever done bits and pieces mostly sculptural work, but have built some tubular works with plugs and mig welds it's just easier than arc welding.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
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Parktools0
