Acid in Bike Locks

beams87

I found myself chatting to the concierge at the London Boat Show on Saturday whilst waiting for my friend to turn up. Locked my bike up, and asked if there was anywhere more secure to leave it (It was next to the Taxi rank at Excel West).

Long story short, this fella was a chap in the know, and he told me how all these buggers steal expensive bikes, like mine. They have moved onto more sophisticated methods it turns out. They will park a bike next to yours, on the other side of the |~|, and as they lock their bike up they squirt hydrochloric (or some other) acid into your bike lock mechanism.

They come back 30 mins later to 'retrieve' their bike, and knock your £40 'gold certificated' U lock off with a small hammer. Then they ride off on yours, coming back later to pick up their bike. Easy peasy.

Anyone want to share how they could possibly protect from this evil?

nicklouse

buy a Rat bike.

TheSmithers

The only way you can protect your bike is to not leave it in public areas unattended, or if you must, don't use your pride and joy, but something you don't mind (within reason) getting pinched.

Both my partner and myself had both our bikes nicked together within 4 minutes of locking them up. Although we now have proper gold standard U-bolt type locks, if there's one thing I've learnt it's that no lock is impenetrable.

beams87

Like this one?

ugo.santalucia

Being a chemist by trade, it seems to me very unlikely that you can cause a lock to fail in 30 minutes using a few drops of acid, even a concentrated one.
I know Hollywood portraits acids as stuff that can chew through concrete and make a hole in the floor, but this is only fiction.
You need to apply acid for a long period of time before a chunky stainless steel mechanism crumbles.

i would call it urban myth

Monty Dog

Fanciful idea - acid capable of eating it's way through hardened steel is going to be extremely volatile requiring protective eyewear, clothing and probably respiratory protection. There are stories where liquid nitrogen have been applied to locks where the steel becomes brittle and simply smashed with a hammer, again a very risky activity if you got it on your skin. Most thefts are simply the result of poor security i.e. cheap lock, badly fitted at an unsuitable location.

teisetrotter

I have never had a single problem with my £100 21 gear Raleigh Grande when I nip to the shops/pub/work. Actually I think I'd be more miffed if they nicked the lock actually!

bernithebiker

TheSmithers wrote:

The only way you can protect your bike is to not leave it in public areas unattended, or if you must, don't use your pride and joy, but something you don't mind (within reason) getting pinched.

Both my partner and myself had both our bikes nicked together within 4 minutes of locking them up. Although we now have proper gold standard U-bolt type locks, if there's one thing I've learnt it's that no lock is impenetrable.

+1

Don't ever leave it out of sight.

I have my old race MTB converted to street use to get around on in town. Not worth a fortune now, but irreplaceable to me.

I don't normally use a lock, as if I go into a shop, I'm never more than a few paces from it, and I can see it. I drop all the gears too so anyone riding off will get a big gear mash up.

If I know it'll be out of sight, I use a fairly cheap, light lock. This gets me about 1 minutes security to my mind. Every £10 extra on the lock maybe buys you another 30 seconds.

And this is rural France, not London......

ddraver

+1 to everything said

- Ugo and Monty - thanks, my bullshoot flag went off reading that but I didnt have the balls to stick my neck out :oops:

- Others - there's a reason that the Dutch only ride hunks of junk that are only just good enough to reach the destination without falling apart.

Phill B

This should keep the f****rs busy lol.

djm501

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Being a chemist by trade, it seems to me very unlikely that you can cause a lock to fail in 30 minutes using a few drops of acid, even a concentrated one.
I know Hollywood portraits acids as stuff that can chew through concrete and make a hole in the floor, but this is only fiction.
You need to apply acid for a long period of time before a chunky stainless steel mechanism crumbles.

i would call it urban myth

+1 As a fellow chemist I entirely agree. The concierge was talking boswelox.

Team4Luke

it's not acid they use, isn't it that stuff that freezes anything to brittle-ness ?

ddraver

Team4Luke wrote:

it's not acid they use, isn't it that stuff that freezes anything to brittle-ness ?

The stuff that batman uses?

lotus49

Team4Luke wrote:

it's not acid they use, isn't it that stuff that freezes anything to brittle-ness ?

The only thing that will do this is something extremely cold such as liquid oxygen or nitrogen. It is possible to do this but carrying flasks of liquid gas around isn't exactly user friendly and they would need a fair bit of it.

I agree with the points made above about the likely effectiveness of even concentrated acid as a lock pick but the fact remains that bikes with supposedly good locks do get stolen. If you care about having your bike nicked, don't leave it somewhere where it can be stolen.

dodgy

A far more likely scenario is to pour something into your lock that renders the lock inoperable, you then have to either leave the bike overnight giving them time to work on it, or go find a locksmith with a gert big bolt cropper.

atakd

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Being a chemist by trade, it seems to me very unlikely that you can cause a lock to fail in 30 minutes using a few drops of acid, even a concentrated one.
I know Hollywood portraits acids as stuff that can chew through concrete and make a hole in the floor, but this is only fiction.
You need to apply acid for a long period of time before a chunky stainless steel mechanism crumbles.

i would call it urban myth

+2
Also, the first part of the lock to corrode would be the delicate pins in the barrel, which you would attack with a screwdriver in the key aperture, not with a hammer.

hmm

An interesting thought, but I too think the concierge was probably not 'in the know'. It'd be interesting to know what type of container this mythical 'Alien blood' is transported in by the erstwhile miscreants. Anything that can chew through hardened steel in 30 minutes is going to be positively fizzing inside a water bottle/coke can. Maybe they transport it still in the Alien!
IME, concierges/security staff like to spin a yarn and enjoy an audience. Their stories, however entertaining, tend to be peppered with inconsistencies and implausibilities. ATEOTD if someone wants your pride and joy they'll find a way of taking it. Don't some lock manufacturers offer free insurance if their device fails and results in your loss?

crispybug2

Having had two bikes stolen last year (Bastards!!) I now never leave my bike anywhere, it's either in my hand or under my arse, but I was talking to my brother-in-law. He works in one of those care in the community houses where they look after people with mental issues arising from use of drugs. One of the inmates(??) told him the would steal bikes more or less to order to fund his drug habit, he said the 75% of locks he could break by hand, 24% with some extra tools and the 1% that beat him he would fill the lock with superglue to make sure it couldn't be removed on then come back and break the lock at his leisure. You really don't stand a chance do you?

Hoopdriver

crispybug2 wrote:

Having had two bikes stolen last year (Bastards!!) I now never leave my bike anywhere, it's either in my hand or under my ars*, but I was talking to my brother-in-law. He works in one of those care in the community houses where they look after people with mental issues arising from use of drugs. One of the inmates(??) told him the would steal bikes more or less to order to fund his drug habit, he said the 75% of locks he could break by hand, 24% with some extra tools and the 1% that beat him he would fill the lock with superglue to make sure it couldn't be removed on then come back and break the lock at his leisure. You really don't stand a chance do you?

Sure, locks can eventually be beaten with enough gear and tools, but I think your inmate is big noting himself quite a bit.

neeb

lotus49 wrote:

Team4Luke wrote:

it's not acid they use, isn't it that stuff that freezes anything to brittle-ness ?

The only thing that will do this is something extremely cold such as liquid oxygen or nitrogen. It is possible to do this but carrying flasks of liquid gas around isn't exactly user friendly and they would need a fair bit of it.

It would also be extremely unsubtle in a public place, you would have clouds of evaporating liquid N all over the place like dry ice at a heavy metal concert... You'd probably get arrested on suspicion of terrorism...

TheSmithers

bernithebiker wrote:

I drop all the gears too so anyone riding off will get a big gear mash up.

That sir is pure genius! Simple, but genius. When mine and my partner's bikes were pinched, I actually saw the guy getting on hers and riding it off but was just too late to give chase. Your tip may have given me the valuable seconds I needed to catch the scumbag!

djm501

If you've got liquid oxygen you might be able to destroy the lock using the likely massive explosion you will encounter. But that would probably happen before you get to the bike and also yourself and the bike would be in trouble.
Liquid oxygen is nasty nasty stuff and noone who's going to nick a bike is going to have that available.
(Also true of liquid nitrogen but that's at least not a potential detonator on contact with organic materials ;-))

Phil Fouracre

I think we should have an educational - science lesson thread, to lessen the boredom - what do the mods think?