Which Battery Charger?

spen666

Before Christmas sometime there was a thread about bike lights which drifted into a discussion of battery chargers. Several people recommended one particular one- I think it cost circa £30

Can anyone rember the charger and where I get it

tincaman

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007WSFWPG/ref=asc_df_B007WSFWPG11401700?smid=A2ZHCPP6GSHNPV&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22242&creativeASIN=B007WSFWPG

Nitecore Intellicharge i4 V2
by JETBeam

davis

here

Kieran_Burns

davis wrote:

here

That's the one. Got it and it is faultless.

There are some VERY scary chargers out there that force so many damn amps through the batteries I'm surprised that they don't melt.

mudcow007

Kieran_Burns wrote:

davis wrote:

here

That's the one. Got it and it is faultless.

There are some VERY scary chargers out there that force so many damn amps through the batteries I'm surprised that they don't melt.

have you ever seen a lipo battery go up in smoke :shock:

i fly rc planes which have lipo batteries, only way to charge them suckers is to put them in a fireproof bag

davmaggs

I have the BL700 sitting on my desk at work. Spend the money on it, you won't regret it.

I messed about with a cheap Ross thing for several years and no doubt spent money on surplus electricity to over charge and to then replace wrecked batteries.

I also like the Eneloop batteries. Worth shopping about on those as prices do vary, and to make sure you get the newer versions as they did upgrade them.

CarlosDSanchez

BL-700 for me as well. Excellent, you can charge AAA or AA at the same time and at different amp's as well.

stuaff

Got the Technoline BC-1000, the BL-700's big brother (faster charge options, otherwise pretty much identical). Terrific bits of kit, highly recommended.

spen666

Thanks everyone - that's the charger I was thinking of.


Do I invest in it?

Kieran_Burns

Team America.

tailwindhome

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

davis

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Team America.

I'd make love to you right now, if you could promise you'd never die?

*confused face.

kelsen

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Team America.

Durkha durkha?

davmaggs

TailWindHome wrote:

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

Google will give you the specs for the BL-700.

wgwarburton

TailWindHome wrote:

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

In a word: "control".

In many more words:
Batteries (NiMH & NiCd) don't like to be fast-charged, overheated or overcharged, nor do they like to be topped up when only partially discharged (unlike lead-acids, which don't like to be fully discharged). The BL700 is "smart" enough to monitor the voltage and temperature in order to avoid the former (unless you need them charged quickly, in which case you have the control to override the trickle charge and do it faster). If the battery has lost capacity, possibly due to partial discharges, then you can set it to attempt to refresh the cell by automated repeated discharge/charge cycles until capacity levels off. It will then report the capacity achieved, so you can decide whether to use them and what for.
I think this is also useful to allow you to best-match sets of batteries around the same actual capacity- this means they ought to be fully discharged at about the same time so, intead of losing longevity on good ones as a result of repeated partial recharging of the set when one underspec. cell is flat, you can cycle them all optimally.

Hope that helps.

If anyone knows of an equivalent that can handle Cs + Ds, please let me know.

Cheers,
W.
PS in case anyone's feeling pedantic- I do know the difference between batteries and cells, let it go.

fossyant

7dayshop also do a smart charger - 808LCD which is also very good for the money. Been using two for about 3 years regularly, and they charge each cell properly. Also has a refresh facility and it checks for bad batteries too. Still using same rechargeables in most of my lights after 3 years, no run time degradation, or bad batteries.

tailwindhome

davmaggs wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

Google will give you the specs for the BL-700.

Whereas Buns gave an explanation which [sort of] made sense to me.

Don't let that put you off being a tw at again in the future though...

tailwindhome

WGWarburton wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

In a word: "control".

In many more words:
Batteries (NiMH & NiCd) don't like to be fast-charged, overheated or overcharged, nor do they like to be topped up when only partially discharged (unlike lead-acids, which don't like to be fully discharged). The BL700 is "smart" enough to monitor the voltage and temperature in order to avoid the former (unless you need them charged quickly, in which case you have the control to override the trickle charge and do it faster). If the battery has lost capacity, possibly due to partial discharges, then you can set it to attempt to refresh the cell by automated repeated discharge/charge cycles until capacity levels off. It will then report the capacity achieved, so you can decide whether to use them and what for.
I think this is also useful to allow you to best-match sets of batteries around the same actual capacity- this means they ought to be fully discharged at about the same time so, intead of losing longevity on good ones as a result of repeated partial recharging of the set when one underspec. cell is flat, you can cycle them all optimally.

Hope that helps.

If anyone knows of an equivalent that can handle Cs + Ds, please let me know.

Cheers,
W.
PS in case anyone's feeling pedantic- I do know the difference between batteries and cells, let it go.

Two supplementarys if I may

1) For bike lights is it worth looking for 'better' batteries than the normal Duracell Nimh rechargeables...

2) For applications such as kids toy cars, Nintendo Wii controllers and such like is it worth investing in a charger like the BL700 and whatever batteries you would recommend?

wgwarburton

TailWindHome wrote:

Two supplementarys if I may

1) For bike lights is it worth looking for 'better' batteries than the normal Duracell Nimh rechargeables...

To be honest, I don't know. My gut feeling is that if you were to do the sums it probably wouldn't work out cheaper but would likely be less hassle/stress. On this basis I use Sanyo Eneloops for my bike and Maplin's hybrids for toys...

2) For applications such as kids toy cars, Nintendo Wii controllers and such like is it worth investing in a charger like the BL700 and whatever batteries you would recommend?

Yes. The more rechargeables you use the more benefit there is in looking after them and the easier it is to capacity-match them into sets. In fact, it'd probably be worthwhile getting lots of inexpensive cells and cherry-picking the best ones into sets for the bike while using the others for household gadgets.
The hybrid ones have the advantage that their shelf-life between charges is long enough for them to be useful after a few weeks in a drawer!

Cheers,
W.

jejv

davis wrote:

here

I find it fascinating that folks keep providing that link though the same thing is available for less here: http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/ ... y-Charger/

Which the OP could have discovered by searching BR.

TailWindHome wrote:

What does a 'good' charger do better than this, or that this doesn't do?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/b ... d=12909960

If you have a charger like that:
- Can't tell if it's nice to the batteries or not: cheap chargers often poorly designed, 'cos iss a charger innit.
- Can't tell if batteries knackered. Not good if you go out at night for a couple of hours, expecting 5 hours of light life, and only get 45 mins.
- Can't recover capacity on used batteries.
- Can't charge new conventional NiMH cells correctly for rated life/capacity.

Fot a bit more cash, I'd recommend: Maha C-9000
But the LaCrosse BC-700 / Voltcraft IPC-1L / Technoline BL-700 should be fine.

TailWindHome wrote:

1) For bike lights is it worth looking for 'better' batteries than the normal Duracell Nimh rechargeables...

2) For applications such as kids toy cars, Nintendo Wii controllers and such like is it worth investing in a charger like the BL700 and whatever batteries you would recommend?

For most purposes I'd recommend Low Self Discharge cells Such as Sanyo Eneloop or GP ReCyko.

Because:
- Umm - when they're not in use they don't lose much charge.
- They seem - to me - much more robust than conventional NiMH cells. Hold capacity over time, even when abused. Better than conventional NiMH, particularly better than high-capacity conventional NiMH.

While the nominal capacities for Low Self Discharge NiMH may be ~20% less than conventional NiMH, in most applications, the usable capacity is going to be higher.

An exception would be an RC car or plane, where the batteries are charged just before use, and the device is run until the battery is flat.

TailWindHome wrote:

is it worth looking for 'better' batteries than the normal Duracell Nimh rechargeables...

Not sure that Duracell are known for rechargeable batteries, unlike GP or Sanyo. Check candlepower forums.

For performance & value for money in UK, look for "GP Recyko" on ebay. Very similar performance to Sanyo Eneloop, but a lot cheaper. These are ~2000mAh cells at AA size.
Sanyo "Eneloop XX" may be best (2500mAh AA claimed), but more expensive, and Sanyo claim fewer recharge cycles.

Buy different batteries for different applications ? No. Unless in some of your applications the maximum charge of a freshly (in the previous few hours) charged cell is important. For applications like TV remotes, clocks, smoke alarms, conventional NiMH are usable, but not so great. Low-Self-Discharge NiMH are much more versatile.

Probably simpler & cheaper to buy a bulk load of identical cells & use them for everything (see ebay, above).

Then you have less trouble matching cells.

WGWarburton wrote:

The more rechargeables you use the more benefit there is in looking after them and the easier it is to capacity-match them into sets. In fact, it'd probably be worthwhile getting lots of inexpensive cells and cherry-picking the best ones into sets for the bike while using the others for household gadgets.

The point of matching cells in a battery is that the battery is a strong as the weakest cell. In a battery with very mismatched cells, the weakest cell can be killed by reverse charging from the stronger cells. If you don't have a charger that can measure cell capacity, you can't match cells, and can't easily tell that the weak cell died.

I put stickers on all our cells, and write on them the recorded capacity and the date. Which might seem OCD, but without doing that, if you have dozens of the things, it's impossible to know if they're usable. So if I take a cell out of something to charge it, and the last capacity date is more than ~9 months ago, I'll cycle it on a charger to check the capacity.

Cells past their best go in radios (remember them ?) & toys. Good cells are for night hikes & cycling.


Charge rates. Low charge rates are kinder to cells, but it's harder for the charger to tell when the cell is charged (dV/dt &| dT/dt). Something between 1/4 & 1/2 of nominal capacity per hour. E.g. 2000mAh cell charge at 500-1000mA.

Capacity. If there's a number written big, say "2700" on the side of the cell, that is not the capacity of the cell. That's marketing guff. Ignore it.
Look for small print on the (same) cell that says "standard charge: 16 hours at 250mA". That's telling you the nominal capacity. In Ah, it's 10 times the specified current. So 2500mAh in this case.
The "16 hours" is to do with standards for testing battery capacity.
If the cell doesn't have this small print on it, don't buy it.

New "Low self discharge" batteries are supplied partially charged. The packet says something like "ready to use".
They'll likely be at 60-80% charge. I'd cycle them a couple of times before use, which will increase the capacity (your inteligent charger will do this). Then write the recorded capacity on the cell. If the charger gives a choice of discharge currents, choose the current closest to 20% of the nominal capacity. The standards for cell capacity are based on discharge at a 5-hour rate.

New conventional batteries should be charged at a 10 hour rate: at a rate that delivers the nominal capacity in 10 hours. This is the "standard charge: 16 hours at 250mA" stuff that should be written on the side of the cell.
Again, your smartcharger should have a program for this: "Break-In", perhaps. Conventional calls are not supplied "ready to use", or even "ready to put in a fast charger".

The "Break-in" program may also recover some abused cells, that your (properly engineered) charger refuses to fast charge.

The "Cycle" or "Break-in" programs on a proper charger will take a day or two to run.

So more than one inteligent charger may be useful.

In any case, candlepower forums are more authoritative than BR.

DrLex

jejv wrote:

I find it fascinating that folks keep providing that link though the same thing is available for less here: http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/ ... y-Charger/
[...]

Thank you for this link - I had been meaning to get a charger, and had noted recent discussions. The ability to buy one for well under £30 swayed my decision when looking for the link. Then spent the saving on getting Eneloops from Amazon... :oops:

Kieran_Burns

DrLex wrote:

jejv wrote:

I find it fascinating that folks keep providing that link though the same thing is available for less here: http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/ ... y-Charger/
[...]

Thank you for this link - I had been meaning to get a charger, and had noted recent discussions. The ability to buy one for well under £30 swayed my decision when looking for the link. Then spent the saving on getting Eneloops from Amazon... :oops:

Think of it as buying a charger and getting free batteries