Prototype fox enduro suspension.

lawman

Some prototype "enduro" forks and shock from Fox. will be interesting to see what they come up with, the fork looks like it has an RLC damper but I may be wrong. Would like to see high and low speed compression on the shock, think the market need a properly adjustable light weight air shock, likewise the fork.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features ... /sspomer,2

I remember a while Rockshox had a proto fork that no one was allowed to photograph or talk about, interesting to see how things develop around enduro, 1x11 drivetrains (hopefully from shimano) and now enduro specific forks, looking good for the future!

supersonic

All this specificness is absurd. We don't need a new shock and fork for every riding type the manufacturers decide to invent. That said, a fully independent LSC dial (and HSC) would be handy, but why it should be limited to just 'Enduro' I do not know.

lawman

I think for racing its kind of needed, but for everyday it's not needed to be so specific and defined. All the marketing gets people confused, enduro is racing in my eyes, yet all-mountain is similar terrain for fun. It's open to the consumer to interpret to a certain extent.

I agree, one of the main things that's put me off the CTD damper in new fox forks, much prefer my rlc. A rear shock that is lightweight with hsc and lsc, so something like a lightweight air sprung RC4 would be a great shock.

ilovedirt

How are their current forks and shocks not already fine for enduro?

bennett_346

ilovedirt wrote:

How are their current forks and shocks not already fine for enduro?

This is what i was thinking.

Anyway sounds like classic fox marketing.

CTD was the nail in the coffin for me. They can fark off trying to charge me significantly extra to reduce adjustability and not improve performance.

EH_Rob

If this thread was an article in the Sun it'd be called:

Mountain bike company in marketing cack shocker

Unbelievable.

lawman

ilovedirt wrote:

How are their current forks and shocks not already fine for enduro?

Fox have a gap in their shock line, the DHX air has never performed as well as it could so I think it's Fox playing catch up with RS/X-fusion/Cane Creek and BOS. They need a truly adjustable air shock for longer travel bikes, the RP23 and CTD are great air shocks, but they have a limit, so I think we'll see a re-designed DHX air with 3 or 4 way adjustment. I hope its not just a CTD with a piggyback as that kind of defeats the point, but a shock with adjustable, incremented HSC, LSC, LSR and HSR would I imagine be of more use to enduro racers looking for that little bit extra.

XC and DH guys have race specific shocks and forks, so why shouldn't enduro racers? The way some people interpret the marketing, they sometimes miss the point. These are specific to a discipline, a growing one at that. Fox certainly seem to have lost alot of US sales since the CCDB air came out, so I would imagine they're also trying to claw some sales back. If all that means we get a better performing shock, whats bad about that?

bennett_346

Just a rebadged DHX air then.

Meh

ilovedirt

lawman wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

How are their current forks and shocks not already fine for enduro?

Fox have a gap in their shock line, the DHX air has never performed as well as it could so I think it's Fox playing catch up with RS/X-fusion/Cane Creek and BOS. They need a truly adjustable air shock for longer travel bikes, the RP23 and CTD are great air shocks, but they have a limit, so I think we'll see a re-designed DHX air with 3 or 4 way adjustment. I hope its not just a CTD with a piggyback as that kind of defeats the point, but a shock with adjustable, incremented HSC, LSC, LSR and HSR would I imagine be of more use to enduro racers looking for that little bit extra.

XC and DH guys have race specific shocks and forks, so why shouldn't enduro racers? The way some people interpret the marketing, they sometimes miss the point. These are specific to a discipline, a growing one at that. Fox certainly seem to have lost alot of US sales since the CCDB air came out, so I would imagine they're also trying to claw some sales back. If all that means we get a better performing shock, whats bad about that?

Alright, I understand the need for a new air shock with more adjustable damping (CTD with piggyback would be pointless, the point of the piggyback is so that it holds oil which can be used for compression damping, otherwise it would just add weight). I don't see why they need a new enduro specific fork though, they already have the 32, 34, 36 all with FIT or CTD, I don't see what else they can possibly come up with that would be in any way useful?

lawman

ilovedirt wrote:

lawman wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

How are their current forks and shocks not already fine for enduro?

Fox have a gap in their shock line, the DHX air has never performed as well as it could so I think it's Fox playing catch up with RS/X-fusion/Cane Creek and BOS. They need a truly adjustable air shock for longer travel bikes, the RP23 and CTD are great air shocks, but they have a limit, so I think we'll see a re-designed DHX air with 3 or 4 way adjustment. I hope its not just a CTD with a piggyback as that kind of defeats the point, but a shock with adjustable, incremented HSC, LSC, LSR and HSR would I imagine be of more use to enduro racers looking for that little bit extra.

XC and DH guys have race specific shocks and forks, so why shouldn't enduro racers? The way some people interpret the marketing, they sometimes miss the point. These are specific to a discipline, a growing one at that. Fox certainly seem to have lost alot of US sales since the CCDB air came out, so I would imagine they're also trying to claw some sales back. If all that means we get a better performing shock, whats bad about that?

Alright, I understand the need for a new air shock with more adjustable damping (CTD with piggyback would be pointless, the point of the piggyback is so that it holds oil which can be used for compression damping, otherwise it would just add weight). I don't see why they need a new enduro specific fork though, they already have the 32, 34, 36 all with FIT or CTD, I don't see what else they can possibly come up with that would be in any way useful?

FIT just refers to the closed cartridge, CTD is the actual adjustment from the damper. From the pictures the fork looks like a 34 chassis with a revised talas system and an RLC like damper. The 26" 34 only comes with CTD atm, so I guess a different damper could be being used and a more progressive talas system, as the current talas forks is quite linear, as are the floats for that matter.

My guess is the new fork will be an "enduro" tuned 34, possibly with a lightened chassis, but definitely a new damper, possibly a developed version of RC2 as found in the 36. There is a market for more tune-able forks and shocks, so CTD will cater for XC and trail, and perhaps a new damper or re-tuned RC2 damper will cater for harder riders. Just a guess, as it would rememdy the linearity issues the current CTD 34 has, and perhaps the new, updated damper could appear in the 36 as well, which has been the same for a few years now.

supersonic

CTD has been a backstep and people are not liking it.

MountainMonster

I can see both sides of the argument. Companies need to push the boundaries to find what really can be done on bikes, but us as consumers don't need this sh!t.

rockmonkeysc

It will be good if they make their forks modular, like Rockshox. So if you buy a bike and it comes with a bottom end Float fork you should be able to fit an upgraded damper to bring it up to the top spec.
I bought a Giant Reign X with a basic Lyrik R and for less than £200 I upgraded it to the same spec as the RC2DH version just by fitting the MiCo compression damper and dual flow rebound damper.

supersonic

Also with RS we have always had 'race' top end versions of forks ie World Cup or Team editions, from SID, through Reba, Rev, Boxxer and so on. All Fox need to do is add a top end 34. To me the 36 160 was a good heavy duty 'Enduro' fork, but Enduro does cover quite a large spectrum when you look at the bikes used, so to make a fork or shock specific seems even more odd.

Thewaylander

Fox are odd,

Gone right off them recently, want to dump my Talas for a Lyrik or 55 rcti3 jobby. Fox forks just have useless small bump sensitivity from the ones i've ridden recently(including a 2011 kashima float).

Gonna prob go coil fork too, air just hasn't been anywhere near as good as even the cheapest worst tuned coil forks i've been of late.

I think though for the article its just a branding job to bring back actual damping instead of there currently awful 3 stage crap with out looking like them saying woops we were wrong your not all idiots and can read instructions and turn a few nobs..

bennett_346

CTD made me laugh when it was announced. Essentially you're paying extra for less adjustability and some fancy writing on the top of the suspension unit.

The idea that only "Enduro" riders (whatever enduro actually is - who knows) want something with this much adjustability is also strange to me.

I've had CTD on my shock for years anyway, it's called Open - Propedal - Lockout though.

lawman

Seems odd how you're all bashing fox for simplified damping... Was it not rockshox who came out with rct3 first? Prices have been pretty much static on the majority of fox forks for the last 2/3 years, yet improvements have been made in the form of kashima, low friction seals and new oil. My 32 float rlc is by far the best fork I've ever ridden, it's supple, well supported through the mid stroke and nicely progressive. It's also got the best through axle on the market, it's made by shimano and we all know shimano have made the best qrs since time began! Yes you pay a tad more for fox over rockshox, but IMO you get more for your money.

CTD was a step back, even ill admit that, but I can see why they did it. What I want, and I'm sure others do, is adjustability for both fork and shock that is more tune-able than CTD, yet offers a similar level of symmetry, I.e. you have the same adjustment on fork and shock. Top end have adjustable everything, and then filter out some adjustment lower down the range. Chances are a chap buying a near £800 fork is gonna know what to do with it

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

Seems odd how you're all bashing fox for simplified damping... Was it not rockshox who came out with rct3 first? Prices have been pretty much static on the majority of fox forks for the last 2/3 years, yet improvements have been made in the form of kashima, low friction seals and new oil. My 32 float rlc is by far the best fork I've ever ridden, it's supple, well supported through the mid stroke and nicely progressive. It's also got the best through axle on the market, it's made by shimano and we all know shimano have made the best qrs since time began! Yes you pay a tad more for fox over rockshox, but IMO you get more for your money.

CTD was a step back, even ill admit that, but I can see why they did it. What I want, and I'm sure others do, is adjustability for both fork and shock that is more tune-able than CTD, yet offers a similar level of symmetry, I.e. you have the same adjustment on fork and shock. Top end have adjustable everything, and then filter out some adjustment lower down the range. Chances are a chap buying a near £800 fork is gonna know what to do with it

They did come out with RCT3 first, are you looking for me to defend that based on the fact it is RS not Fox? Couldn't care less what brand was on what fork, the performance is the main thing and to me any simplification is a step back.

Prices have only been static as these improvements have been made as they were very overpriced to begin with and needed something new to justify that price.

Thewaylander

Well your lucky, i've not ridden a supple fox with a well supported mid stroke(god i sound like im talking about summat rude here) yet.

Just expensive for what they are. and i find the maxxle axle up front far easier to use than the fox one its bloody fiddly is what it is..

supersonic

RCT3 is still more adjustable the CTD, it is a different system.

lawman

Thewaylander wrote:

Well your lucky, i've not ridden a supple fox with a well supported mid stroke(god i sound like im talking about summat rude here) yet.

Just expensive for what they are. and i find the maxxle axle up front far easier to use than the fox one its bloody fiddly is what it is..

You must have had a bad set, most of the FIT fork's I've tried have been great, and tbh, I'd trade the small bumps for the better mid-stroke any day of the week. I hate my maxle, its far fiddlier than the fox 15mm axle, the fox 20mm axle is a right pain I'll grant you that, but the 15mm is awesome.

Personally I prefer the performance of Fox kit, and if the prototype stuff is a step back towards more adjustability then I'm all for it. Don't Rockshox have a proto enduro fork too?

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/r ... ado-35263/

supersonic

Hard to tell what it is from that, jsut a prototype on that type of bike. Could be testing a refined chassis or anything really.

That said RS could do with a lightened Lyrik. 150mm revs stretch the chassis out a lot.

lawman

It's definitely a 34 chassis by the looks of it though, could be abit lighter I guess.

A lightened lyrik or beefed up Rev would sell well. But then wasn't that what the pike eventually became?

Northwind

lawman wrote:

A lightened lyrik or beefed up Rev would sell well. But then wasn't that what the pike eventually became?

Pike never really became anything, it sailed serenely on, unchanging through the years, like Steve Peat's nose. Then one day it was suddenly gone, like Steve Peat's form.

It's not a bad idea, this- DHX Air was never that good, and if they were to launch a new one people would still say "It's a DHX air, they're pish". Rockshox have the Monarch Plus which is supposed to be an upgraded/harder hitting air shock, but realistically just competes with the RP23 (because the RP23 is so damn good).

As far as this "enduro specific" thing, that's cobblers, enduro is just riding your bike. Having said that, I'd pay good money for a Van RC with a propedal lever.

lawman

Northwind wrote:

It's not a bad idea, this- DHX Air was never that good, and if they were to launch a new one people would still say "It's a DHX air, they're pish". Rockshox have the Monarch Plus which is supposed to be an upgraded/harder hitting air shock, but realistically just competes with the RP23 (because the RP23 is so damn good).

As far as this "enduro specific" thing, that's cobblers, enduro is just riding your bike. Having said that, I'd pay good money for a Van RC with a propedal lever.

The DHX was/is a huge let down. If this new shock is essentially a RP23 "plus" with independently adjustable High and low speed compression, then it could be an awesome shock. I can see why DH riders would want to keep the adjustment of a coil shock with the lighter weight of an air shock, so it seems odd that there are so few light weight air shocks with the adjust-ability most coil shocks have. The only ones I can think of that truly offer this, are the vivid air, CCDB air and the x-fusion vector, most of which are too heavy for trail use, just gimme a rp23 weight shock with a fully adjustable low and high speed compression damper and I'll be a happy man!

benpinnick

RCT3 is ace. Having spent the day at TF today, and looked properly at the internals of a Talas, I can safely say I am never going to run one again. The amount of seals and gubbins needed inside a talas is a joke. Ive converted my Revs to DP coil, and to be honest if they were 10mm longer and 2mm fatter, I think that would be the ideal enduro fork.