Bike Leasing
Comments
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Hello diy,
Your last post is full of so many assumptions and negativity that I'll presume that you've had a bad day and leave it at that.
I hope that you have an enjoyable evening and that tomorrow is better.0 -
Hello again,
The feedback from this forum has been invaluable. Thank you.
We always listen to comments and consider them fully. We've been discussing the points raised about the lease prices and the complications involved in communicating the overall proposition.
Hopefully we've found a way to address both these issues. Wherever possible (and that applies to over 95% of the bikes on offer), we've adjusted the lease so that it's 65% of the RRP. The final option to buy remains at 35%.
Therefore, if ownership is important to you, then you'll not pay more than the RRP, and the monthly costs will be low.
If having a new bike regularly is important, then you'll only pay 65% of the RRP over 2 years.
Either way, you keep the flexibility to choose at the end.
Of course, the savings on insurance, accessories, spares and upgrades will remain.
Thank you again for all your feedback.0 -
There are parts of me that like this, and parts that do not. I'm still undecided which prevails, i'm sure there is a large market for this as many people simply can not wait to save for something, but I find the leasing idea for a bike a bit silly, especially at 120 a month.
Best of luck with your journey, i'm sure many people will benefit.0 -
MountainMonster wrote:There are parts of me that like this, and parts that do not. I'm still undecided which prevails, i'm sure there is a large market for this as many people simply can not wait to save for something, but I find the leasing idea for a bike a bit silly, especially at 120 a month.
Best of luck with your journey, i'm sure many people will benefit.
Hi, Thanks for your good wishes.
One of the points is that £120 per month lets you ride a £5,760 bike. That would be £204 per month with 0% finance with the same deposit amount.
Before this illustration irks those that become annoyed about people spending more than they can afford
, please remember that we only lease to people who can afford it, irrespective of which option they choose to use to get their bike; and someone who can afford £120 per month on a 2 year 0% finance deal would only need to spend £73.21 a month with an equivalent lease (based on a £3k bike). 0 -
bikeleasingco wrote:MountainMonster wrote:There are parts of me that like this, and parts that do not. I'm still undecided which prevails, i'm sure there is a large market for this as many people simply can not wait to save for something, but I find the leasing idea for a bike a bit silly, especially at 120 a month.
Best of luck with your journey, i'm sure many people will benefit.
Hi, Thanks for your good wishes.
One of the points is that £120 per month lets you ride a £5,760 bike. That would be £204 per month with 0% finance with the same deposit amount.
Before this illustration irks those that become annoyed about people spending more than they can afford, please remember that we only lease to people who can afford it, irrespective of which option they choose to use to get their bike; and someone who can afford £120 per month on a 2 year 0% finance deal would only need to spend £73.21 a month with an equivalent lease (based on a £3k bike).
Yes, but that 204 represents a value those people own, rather than just paying you guys. I can see leasing working for cars because they are a) much more expensive and b) much more prone to xpensive failures. A bike, even an expensive one, will not cost huge amounts to repair in the event of a crash.0 -
Hi MountainMonster,
Ownership has it upsides, but it also has it's downsides, and I am not just talking about repairs.
Let's say you get in an average of 6 rides a month. Based on the example of a £5,760 bike again:
Leasing costs £26 a ride over 2 years.
Owning costs £40 a ride over 2 years.
When the bike is in the garage unused it is "dead" money.
The cashflow is the thing. At the end of 2 years you could have anything up to £2,300 tied up in your bike if you'd bought it.
Leasing frees that cash up. You choose what you want to do with it at the end. Remember, if you'd bought it, you'd need to sell it to free up that cash, with no guarantees on how much you'd get. The other important thing is that once you've sold it you still don't own a bike.0 -
Finance discussions aside, if you only ride 72 times a year, there is an argument that the best option to save money is to go out and buy a 2-3 year old 1k bike, which will cost you £3 a ride and make no difference at all to your performance.
I just worked out that my road bike is costing me about 64p per ride.0 -
We are looking into leasing our next car, but to me a bike is different and leasing does not sound great.
I have one car, but I have more than one bike.
I have just bought a bike on credit (0% but yes, I appreciate its costing me about 10% say).
At the end of the 3 years the bike will be worth a lot less if I sell it, but if I keep it, it's still a 3 grand bike to me.
I then buy another bike and demote the current one to winter only use.
Also I am going to play around with wheels and other bits during those 3 years.
It would just be too restrictive to have it on lease.
One of the joys of having a car on a lease (for me) is that you do not really feel like it is yours, and do not care about it as much.
Thats the opposite of how I want to feel about my bike.0 -
yep - 2 years of enjoyment, another 3-4 years of tinkering and upgrades.0
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diy wrote:Finance discussions aside, if you only ride 72 times a year, there is an argument that the best option to save money is to go out and buy a 2-3 year old 1k bike, which will cost you £3 a ride and make no difference at all to your performance.
I just worked out that my road bike is costing me about 64p per ride.
Hello again diy,
I'm not sure that your point is really comparing "apples with apples".
If £1000 is spent on a second hand bike then the cost per ride could be argued to reduce on a sliding scale from £1000 to zero over 2 years.
Leasing a £1000 bike will cost £650, so the cost per ride equation will always favour leasing over 2 years. After 2 years it will begin to swing the other way, but it will still take another 58 weeks for the equation to balance out assuming 6 rides/month.
I've been taking a look at some of your videos and your diy lighting systems. I applaud you on the information that you provide and your advice to cyclists for finding ways to cut the costs of lighting systems for their bikes.
However, whilst this makes for a great and very intersting hobby, I'm not sure that the demographic that we're focused upon as a business is keen to produce diy lighting systems that they can festoon on their high value bicycles. They tend to want something new, often branded, and with a warranty.
Your cycling paradigm seems to be focused upon second-hand, make and mend, and generally not new.
Of course, cycling lends itself to that very well. However, we are focused upon new, premium, and making expensive things more accessible and affordable.
You clearly achieve what you set out to do very well. We do what we do very well also. It is very difficult to compare one with the other, as they are both simply options for cyclists to make, that operate within different facets of the sport/hobby.
Best regards
Paul0 -
Hi Carbonator,
I am happy to hear that you're found yourself a great bike and that you're pleased withe deal you got. I hope that you get years of fun from it. I thought that I'd highlight a few of the points that you raised so that you can see why leasing might be an option for you to consider next time.
3 year 0% finance usually costs around 15% of the RRP for the retailer.Carbonator wrote:I have just bought a bike on credit (0% but yes, I appreciate its costing me about 10% say).
Perception is everythingCarbonator wrote:At the end of the 3 years the bike will be worth a lot less if I sell it, but if I keep it, it's still a 3 grand bike to me. I then buy another bike and demote the current one to winter only use. However, your garage will become a nice depository for your family's cash. I'm not sure what your partner would think about that, probably not too favourably.
Naturally, it's entirely your choice what you do with your money, however, you clearly see the point of cashflow otherwise you would probably not have chosen 3 years of 0% finance. Your £3k bike will likel be costing you £75 per month for 3 years.
That bike would cost you £68.75 for 2 years and then just £37.50 for the third year. If you chose to buy it after 3 years, you will still only have paid £3k, but your cashflow would have been better.
After 3 years you'll have replaced a few things on it no doubt. Please note that you can replace parts and upgrade with leasing, and it costs a lot less.Carbonator wrote:Also I am going to play around with wheels and other bits during those 3 years.
It would just be too restrictive to have it on lease.
Leasing does not take the pleasure of ownership or the passion out of cycling. If anything it enhances it as you can enjoy it all the more knowing that you're being smart with your money. I completely understand your point about car leasing as it often costs more in the long run. Bike leasing does not.Carbonator wrote:One of the joys of having a car on a lease (for me) is that you do not really feel like it is yours, and do not care about it as much.
Thats the opposite of how I want to feel about my bike.0 -
@ bikeleasingco you are missing my point, it may have needed some emoticons. I started by saying "Finance discussions aside", as in not discussing fiance, cash or leasing. My point was that its a bit sad that someone would spend 5 grand on a bike that they only use 1.3 times a week.
Don't get me wrong if I thought a 5-10 grand bike would make me faster, cooler, sexier then I'd buy one. I actually think the opposite. I have more respect for the guy who leaves me for dead on his vintage Peugeot than the fat bloke on his S-Works that I pass with ease.
For me the flasher the bike the greater the expectation on the rider.0 -
diy wrote:@ bikeleasingco you are missing my point, it may have needed some emoticons. I started by saying "Finance discussions aside", as in not discussing fiance, cash or leasing. My point was that its a bit sad that someone would spend 5 grand on a bike that they only use 1.3 times a week.
Don't get me wrong if I thought a 5-10 grand bike would make me faster, cooler, sexier then I'd buy one. I actually think the opposite. I have more respect for the guy who leaves me for dead on his vintage Peugeot than the fat bloke on his S-Works that I pass with ease.
For me the flasher the bike the greater the expectation on the rider.
Hi diy,
I understand, but plenty of our customers are lean, damned fast cycling machines!
People who lease tend to be as fit and passionate about cycling as the person on the vintage Peugeot. They just like new bikes.
That being said, we do have one customer who has a £5.5k bike that he goes out on about once a month! The rest of the time it is in his dining room (his wife won't let him have it in the lounge!) as a work of art on the wall!
It takes all sorts.0 -
diy wrote:@ bikeleasingco you are missing my point, it may have needed some emoticons. I started by saying "Finance discussions aside", as in not discussing fiance, cash or leasing. My point was that its a bit sad that someone would spend 5 grand on a bike that they only use 1.3 times a week.
Don't get me wrong if I thought a 5-10 grand bike would make me faster, cooler, sexier then I'd buy one. I actually think the opposite. I have more respect for the guy who leaves me for dead on his vintage Peugeot than the fat bloke on his S-Works that I pass with ease.
For me the flasher the bike the greater the expectation on the rider.
No offence DIY but I have to say that I find that attitude the biggest load of crap on this site.
Just buy the bike you like/the best you can and enjoy riding it.0 -
This is the same with everything in life. Some people spend £80 a month on gym membership and go once a week. Others buy a season ticket for £800 and go twice a month for only 10 months of the year!! Cycling is not the most expensive hobby. Might be worth working it out on a mileage basis. 'A ride' could be 10 miles, or it could be 100!diy wrote:@ bikeleasingco you are missing my point, it may have needed some emoticons. I started by saying "Finance discussions aside", as in not discussing fiance, cash or leasing. My point was that its a bit sad that someone would spend 5 grand on a bike that they only use 1.3 times a week.0 -
Carbonator wrote:No offence DIY but I have to say that I find that attitude the biggest load of crap on this site.
Just buy the bike you like/the best you can and enjoy riding it.
None taken, my point is that its a bit sad that people spend a fortune on something they hardly use. I personally would feel uncomfortable riding a top end bike when I'm nothing like a top end rider.0 -
diy wrote:Carbonator wrote:No offence DIY but I have to say that I find that attitude the biggest load of crap on this site.
Just buy the bike you like/the best you can and enjoy riding it.
None taken, my point is that its a bit sad that people spend a fortune on something they hardly use. I personally would feel uncomfortable riding a top end bike when I'm nothing like a top end rider.
I hope this does not come across wrong, as it is certainly not meant to, but does this mean you never go for the higher end things in life if you arn't the best? I ask simply because if I have the cash for them, I go for it ( to a certain extent). Prime example is the kitchen utensils. I am definitely not Gordon Ramsey or other world class cook, but when I was looking for a knife set I bought ones which were more expensive simply because they looked nicer and I figured I would treat myself. They still get used as they were meant to, but they were not budget, nor am I an amazing cook. Do you never see a point to treat yourself to something nicer? We work so much these days but some people seem to be reluctant to buy nicer stuff.0 -
MountainMonster wrote:diy wrote:Carbonator wrote:No offence DIY but I have to say that I find that attitude the biggest load of crap on this site.
Just buy the bike you like/the best you can and enjoy riding it.
None taken, my point is that its a bit sad that people spend a fortune on something they hardly use. I personally would feel uncomfortable riding a top end bike when I'm nothing like a top end rider.
I hope this does not come across wrong, as it is certainly not meant to, but does this mean you never go for the higher end things in life if you arn't the best? I ask simply because if I have the cash for them, I go for it ( to a certain extent). Prime example is the kitchen utensils. I am definitely not Gordon Ramsey or other world class cook, but when I was looking for a knife set I bought ones which were more expensive simply because they looked nicer and I figured I would treat myself. They still get used as they were meant to, but they were not budget, nor am I an amazing cook. Do you never see a point to treat yourself to something nicer? We work so much these days but some people seem to be reluctant to buy nicer stuff.
I have noticed in the past year or so this increasing trend to make a direct correlation between a cyclist's bike and his or her level of cycling fitness. It's bizarre and those who do it will always struggle to portray anything than jealousy. You don't have to be a racing driver to own a Ferrari. You don't have to be Mo Farah to run in a pair of £100 trainers. You don't have to be Jimi Hendrix to own a top-end guitar. Same, same you don't have to be a pro, an amateur pro or a crit racer to own a nice bike.
I'm interested to know (from those that hold this belief) what the parameters are. When is it acceptable to own a nice bike? Is it relative to average speed over a 100 miler (of course average speed is a no-no)? Is it number of miles covered in the previous 12 months? Is it number of feet climbed in a given period?
I've just spunked a ridiculous amount of money on a new bike, which arrives on Friday. I've justified it to the person that matters - the person that earned the money to buy it - me. Does my cycling level justify a £3.5k bike? Don't know as there is no chart or table to check against. At least I couldn't find one anywhere.
I started road cycling in 2001 on a £250 Claude Butler. In 2005 I treated myself to an upgrade - a £400 Giant. Then in 2009 I upgraded again to a £700 Specialized, followed by a £1100 Cannondale soon after. Last year I purchased by first carbon bike - a £1600 Kuota. 4 months in i've decided i don't like it, so I've thrown some cash at a new one.
Over the last 12 years my cycling has improved (fitness, speed, handling etc). I reckon those people that hold this theory would accept that i started 12 years ago on an 'acceptable' level of bike. But am i 14 times better now than i was then? No. If i was, I'd probably be racing at a reasonable level. So is my bike now too good for me?
As I said, it can amount to no more than jealousy. I can't see any other explanation as to why anyone would give a flying f*** what anyone else is riding. Jealousy can be good of course - it can make you strive - but when it manifests itself in sneers and jeers it's ridiculous.
Right, i'm off to purr over my new bike.. 0 -
I'm not having a go at people who want to buy them. I totally get that some people even "need" the high end bike to motivate themselves to use it. I'm saying I have more respect for the guy on the old bike who is actually a very fit rider. I spend money on stuff too - I've said in other threads I am a 50% tax payer, so you can see this is not about being jealous of other people's wealth. I could spend £10K on a bike tomorrow, but I wouldn't enjoy owning it as much as I would getting a 2nd hand bargain for £500.
Generally I would say in life I find the budget bargains delight and high end products disappoint. Its really down to the fact that a £10k bike will not be 10 times better than a 1k bike. So many people dream of owning a high end car - I've had a few and most have been disappointments. Generally in everything there is a sweet spot where the demand/supply model sets a price to be most competitive. I think there are several in cycling but once you go above ~£3.5k, you are very much in the realm of marginal improvements. same for cars, anything over £40-50k motorbikes over £10k, TVs over £1,200 etc. The customer base is substantially reduced, the costs are increased by things which do not affect quality or performance.0 -
Hello again,
Firstly, I think it's worth saying that someone spending 10 x more on a bike does not realistically expect to gain 10x more performace. There is nothing linear about it. Also, there is seldom anything objective about measuring it. It's a subjective, feeling thing.
My main objective is to help people feel good riding their bike. Leasing customers feel good. They get to tick off boxes for a bling new current model year bike, at bargain prices, and the knowledge that they've been smart with their money.
Let's say someone goes on ebay and spends £750 on a second hand bike. They would have to pay out £750 straight away and they'd have to take the risk that the bike didn't fail on them in some way, and of course, that it was not stolen!
Leasing would let that same person get a brand new bike that was worth £1154. They'd only pay £115.40 as an initial payment and then they'd be able to spread the remaining costs out over 24 months at £26.45. It would be covered by warranty and it would defintely not be stolen.
If they wanted to extend for another year, then that monthly payment would drop down to just £14.43 a month.
The way my customers see it, they have a number of options:
1. Spend £45.16 a month to get a new bike on 2 year 0% finance. They recognise that they would own the bike at the end but that they'd need to sell it to get their next bike (the same as not owning a bike at the end). They also see that every month they lease they keep an extra £18.71 in their pocket; that's £449.04 over 2 years. When they realise that the lease payments would need to keep running for another 16.5 months for the same amount of money to be spent on leasing as on buying, they understand the cashflow benefits. So do their families.
2. Spend £29.67 a month to get a new bike on 3 year 0% finance. Leasing customers see that they pay £3.22 less per month over 24 months and then £15.24 a month less in the 3rd year (presuming they choose to extend a year).
After 3 years, a leasing customer pays £260.16 less. Whilst they recognise the cashflow benefits, they also recognise that leasing gives them the flexibility to choose this option, as well as the option to buy at the end of 3 years at £260.00. So they can see that their family's cashflow is better, they've spent no more money, and it's really easy for them to change their bike or buy it.
3. Buy a second hand bike. Obviously, this option carries risks. Leasing customers choose to avoid these risks, use the money to get a better bike, or use the money to clear a lump sum from a debt and instead make use of the cashflow advantages of leasing to enjoy their bike without having to worry about the financial side of things. There are often times when life throws a curve ball and a lump of cash comes in very handy. Leasing lets our customers have that money available rather than having it tied up in their bike, even a second hand bike.
So, that's how leasing puts a smile on our customers' faces. Once they look at it from every angle, they realise that it adds up to a no-brainer. If they're self-employed then it's even more so.0 -
I really don't understand the idea that someone shouldn't own a 2 or 3k bike unless they are semi pro or a racing rider. Surely someone should be able to ride whatever bike they want/can afford whatever their level of ability. I certainly like the idea of leasing and will be looking into when I come to upgrade my bike in the summer.0
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Well said djhermer.
I was about to ask the same question (about linking cost of bike to ability) so you saved me a lot of typing lol.
I too can only really put it down to jealousy.
I am just sick of hearing people talking about passing someone on a 5k bike riding a Triban. Its always on a hill too!
Or saying that 'Sora' is fine for a bigginer.
The two things are not really linked imo.
I have no more respect for someone sprinting up a hill on a Triban, than on a 5k bike. Any respect is due to their ability alone.
To DIY, now that you have been pushed on it you are talking about 3.5k bikes and 40-50k cars, but that sounds very different to what you have said in the past.
So what would you say was ok for a non pro to spend on a bike? Please do not mention 2nd hand.
Personally I think road bikes start at about £1000, and anything up to about 3k should not get anyones noses twitching!0 -
I just have to adopt the de facto position of respecting everyone....you see, everyone passes me....uphill, downhill, along the hill. I just love the ride!Carbonator wrote:I have no more respect for someone sprinting up a hill on a Triban, than on a 5k bike. Any respect is due to their ability alone. 0 -
diy wrote:I'm not having a go at people who want to buy them. I totally get that some people even "need" the high end bike to motivate themselves to use it. I'm saying I have more respect for the guy on the old bike who is actually a very fit rider. I spend money on stuff too - I've said in other threads I am a 50% tax payer, so you can see this is not about being jealous of other people's wealth. I could spend £10K on a bike tomorrow, but I wouldn't enjoy owning it as much as I would getting a 2nd hand bargain for £500.
Generally I would say in life I find the budget bargains delight and high end products disappoint. Its really down to the fact that a £10k bike will not be 10 times better than a 1k bike. So many people dream of owning a high end car - I've had a few and most have been disappointments. Generally in everything there is a sweet spot where the demand/supply model sets a price to be most competitive. I think there are several in cycling but once you go above ~£3.5k, you are very much in the realm of marginal improvements. same for cars, anything over £40-50k motorbikes over £10k, TVs over £1,200 etc. The customer base is substantially reduced, the costs are increased by things which do not affect quality or performance.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. I'm in the same boat as you, but I just respect everyone equally unless their a twit.0 -
diy wrote:I'm not having a go at people who want to buy them. I totally get that some people even "need" the high end bike to motivate themselves to use it.
Er, did you just say you are not having a go at people who want to buy a nice bike (say 2-3k) ...... then have a go at them?
Would I be right in thinking that you have an issue with modern materials and designs DIY?
Sorry for going off topic bikeleasingco. Needs its own thread really, but hopefully you will lease more bikes if we accept a carbon frame bike with BB30 and 105 componentry is not a big ask these days lol0 -
diy wrote:I'm not having a go at people who want to buy them. I totally get that some people even "need" the high end bike to motivate themselves to use it. I'm saying I have more respect for the guy on the old bike who is actually a very fit rider.
I'm reasonably decent as a rider and have modern, expensive bikes (bought with my money - I would never borrow money for something as trivial as a bike) and old bikes (the Raleigh Record Ace costing me a grand total of £120 though the fettling bill upped the overall a bit!) - I like them equally. My Look might be best overall but the Raleigh has the edge in some areas. I'm not sure why anyone would respect me more or less depending on which I happened to be riding!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Horses for courses I say..
If you can afford to buy the bike of your dreams in cash then so be it..this service isn't for you clearly.
I cannot afford a top spec bike but with the help of BLC I have one..I got my Argon 18 Gallium Pro framset about a year ago from BLC and love it, I think I pay around £45 a month of which I would have usualy blown on some crap through the month anyways (takeaways, pointless magazines etc...it all adds up) One thing for certain is I wouldnt have got 2.5K to buy the frameset myself so bike leasing is perfect for me.
I usually like the latest and greatest out there so having a lease is just right, at the end of the lease I will hand this frameset back and more than likely go for the 2013 version of the same thing. If i had bought it out right I would have to sell the framset myself which I wouldn't get near as much as I would like towards a new frame..so would be saving yet again.
Personally, i couldnt care less about the ins and outs or the fine details of how it all works..all I know is I pay relatively little a month and get an awesome bike in return which gets a lot of use and fits me perfectly. I get a new shiny bike every two years and dont have to deal with selling them off once I've finished with them.
I'm so sold on the idea, I have a second lease...a commencal Meta AM...and the same, when this lease ends, I will get another one.0 -
Carbonator wrote:Personally I think road bikes start at about £1000, and anything up to about 3k should not get anyones noses twitching!
me too. There is a lot of good stuff around £2k got my eye on a few at http://www.paulscycles.co.uk having just watched a bike that can be had new for £1,200 (1,800 rrp) go 2 years old for £1,000 on ebay the TCO can be pretty low.
I prefer modern to old.
I don't understand why anyone would buy used unless its 40% cheaper.0 -
I very recently acquired a new bike through the BLC facility. The financial arrangement suits me and in theory leasing means that for a one-off payment I paid the expected depreciation - leaving me with a residual at the end of 24 months projected to be equal to the second hand value of the bike. At this point giving the option to trade-in and get the latest model, or buy the bike completely.
BLC works exactly like the leasing arrangements widely available for cars. An attraction of leasing is the attribution of some of the cost to my business, so there is in my case some tax benefit.
In terms of bike delivery - this was speedy, the mechanic delivered to my home, set up my bike expertly and gave me excellent advice. The bike, a Felt f55x, was said to be unavailable by my LBS, but BLC has a contract direct with the manaufacturer (or its agent - I'm not sure which) and sourcing was not an issue.
For anyone wanting to spread the cost of bike acquisition on reasonable terms BLC is an option - especially if you are thinking of getting a £9,500 Bianchi or something!0
