Emigration...
Comments
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That's another way of learning a language too...learn all the words for your hobby. I subscribe to TOUR magazine which I suppose is the German language equivalent of CP. It's not the greatest magazine with the same articles 'best tyre' (always, always a Continental), 'best bike under €1000/€2000' etc. coming round on a 12-18 month loop but it does have some excellent tour ideas/guides coering the whole of mainland Europe, not just Germany.
Anyway, I read it because I enjoy reading it. If I don't know a word, I look it up. It's far more interesting way to learn than learning lists of household appliances, vegetables and items of clothing!0 -
Hehe, yes, my plan is to draw rubbish pictures of things for which I should know the words and then stick labels on them. I'm going to start with bikes, food, body parts, and houses. That should cover most things I'll need to survive (in that order).schweiz wrote:That's another way of learning a language too...learn all the words for your hobby.
EDIT - I'm going to avoid 'concepts' for two reasons: one - they do my head in; two - I'm rubbish at drawing them.0 -
My mate's mother is Dutch. He didn't learn much as a child but subsequently learned Dutch to quite a high level through night classes and the like. He lives in the UK.
When he goes to Holland and tries to speak Dutch he says a lot of them refuse to engage and just talk English back. Apparently many don't 'like' a foreigner speaking to them in 'their' language when they think (often rightly) that they can speak better English. Strange eh. My mate in Sweden said a similar thing happens to him all the time, though his Swedish isn't that great. We're not talking detailed business discussions here - simple exchanges in shops and things.
Personally, I wouldn't really bother learning those languages as the native's English level is usually so high. Italian, French, Spanish - different ball game.0 -
Eveything you say is right CM, but the trouble is that you never make friends with any Dutch people that way...(unless you can force them into a situation where there is 1 of them with a group of non-dutch)
It's not a deal breaker, but it does mean you don't integrate much, essentially you could be living anywhere...depends on what your after.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
And, as I said earlier, I think it is actually so much easier when they can't speak English at all - I feel much less embarrassed by not knowing a particular word in French if I know that they're not doing that double-translation thing, and thinking what an idiot I am for not knowing the word for "chain-link remover tool".schweiz wrote:Also, we have a club training camp each year in Cambrils, Spain in May and the travel company we go with is from Switzerland so there are loads of Swiss cyclists there so my language so I have to speak German for 10 days solid or get very bored and lonely!
If you can find like minded people with similar interests language is never an issue because the subject is more interesting than your ability to conjugate correctly.
If you go to live in a small village where no-one speaks english it does make it easier to learn the language, but your vocabulary is then limited to discussing the weather (dah, sunny!) and how big your neighbour's broad beans are!
chain link removal tool = cadeia de ferramenta de remoção de ligação. :shock:my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
ddraver wrote:Eveything you say is right CM, but the trouble is that you never make friends with any Dutch people that way...(unless you can force them into a situation where there is 1 of them with a group of non-dutch)
It's not a deal breaker, but it does mean you don't integrate much, essentially you could be living anywhere...depends on what your after.
Yeah, I agree with that. If I lived in Holland / Scandinavia long term then I would learn the language. But if I was going for a year or two on a posting by my company? Difficult to say if I'd really try to learn it. Plus it would be tough to really make inroads into the language a year or two. At that stage many locals would still be better off talking to me in English.0 -
Holland actually considered changing their official language to include English (along with dutch and flemish) as so many speak it and to improve trade.0
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You could make an entire chain from scratch in the time it takes you to say that.team47b wrote:chain link removal tool = cadeia de ferramenta de remoção de ligação. :shock:0 -
Interesting posts so far. I was born in Kenya and I have travelled around Europe (Northern) extensively. I was back and forward to Sweden for 5 years. My French is okay, my Spanish is improving and I can get by with Swedish but its hardly a well exported language.
Sweden has very short summers and although beautiful in parts, they are pretty square too. Switzerland is stunning but expensive. If I sold up and bought a gite in France, i'd have plenty of spare cash and maybe do self-catering. The area surrounding Annecy is just the right balance.
Britain has evolved into a low-wage high cost society. If you're well off, life is ok but its so dependant on income. To say (Frankthetank) that this place is near bloody perfect, well is just blinkered. Since the 80's, hedonism has pervaded all facets of life and its getting worse. The Petite bourgouis in UK is more like Le Grande petite bourgouis (my first French Oxymoron !?).
I have had so many good experiences abroad becuase if you speak a little of the language, it goes miles. When I spent two months in Paris (with a walking stick prior to hip op no. 2), people used to give up seats and give me a wide berth and were extraordinarily accomodating. When I had to travel back through London on the way home, it was like a game of rugby and people were so bloody rude and inconsiderate.
The grass is not greener on the other side, it has more colour becuase they have not got that island mentality.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
briantrumpet wrote:Hehe, yes, my plan is to draw rubbish pictures of things for which I should know the words and then stick labels on them. I'm going to start with bikes, food, body parts, and houses. That should cover most things I'll need to survive (in that order).
I tried that. One colour of post it note for everything that was 'Der', another for 'Die' and a third for 'Das' with the German name written on but after a couple of days half the post it notes had fallen off and with the rest, I just found I ignored them during the day. After a couple of weeks they were all in the bin. Try it though, everyone has a different way of learning. Maybe you can get your hands on 'Velo' magazine or whatever the French equivalent of Cycling Plus is?0 -
Courage Monsieur wrote:My mate's mother is Dutch. He didn't learn much as a child but subsequently learned Dutch to quite a high level through night classes and the like. He lives in the UK.
When he goes to Holland and tries to speak Dutch he says a lot of them refuse to engage and just talk English back. Apparently many don't 'like' a foreigner speaking to them in 'their' language when they think (often rightly) that they can speak better English. Strange eh. My mate in Sweden said a similar thing happens to him all the time, though his Swedish isn't that great. We're not talking detailed business discussions here - simple exchanges in shops and things.
Personally, I wouldn't really bother learning those languages as the native's English level is usually so high. Italian, French, Spanish - different ball game.
Seriously, that's the worse attitude to have. It realy used to frustrate me when it happened in Luzern. I'd mentally rehearse exactly what I wanted to say, blurt it out and then feel my self satisfied smile wiped off my face as the answer came back in English.
After many years of perseverence, I now just get asked (in German) if I'm Dutch. Given the closeness of Dutch and German, I guess that's kind of a compliment!0 -
And a French cyclist I passed on a hill wrote in his blog that he thought I was Belgian from my accent. So maybe that's the best ploy - cultivate some random non-English accent, whatever language you're learning.schweiz wrote:After many years of perseverence, I now just get asked (in German) if I'm Dutch. Given the closeness of Dutch and German, I guess that's kind of a compliment!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:Switzerland is stunning but expensive.
Switzerland is only expensive if you visit as a tourist. If you're being paid a Swiss wage, relatively, it's a cheap as any European country. At the moment, with the strong Swiss Franc, the price of food has come down, petrol is about CHF 1.80 (£1.20) a litre, VAT is 8% so goods with common trans-european prices are actually cheaper and buying stuff from the UK or the eurozone is a steal! The real costs in Switzerland are when it comes for paying for that labour! The bike shop charges CHF 90 (£60) an hour. To put those values into perspective, my take home salary is more than double than I could expect in the UK.0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
And a French cyclist I passed on a hill wrote in his blog that he thought I was Belgian from my accent. So maybe that's the best ploy - cultivate some random non-English accent, whatever language you're learning.schweiz wrote:After many years of perseverence, I now just get asked (in German) if I'm Dutch. Given the closeness of Dutch and German, I guess that's kind of a compliment!
I think it might be more to do with the fact that the English have a reputation for not learning a foreign language so if you can speak a language with a strange accent then they assume that you're from the low countries who have a far better reputation!0 -
You don't think his mistaking me for a Belgian was down to my natty attire then...?schweiz wrote:I think it might be more to do with the fact that the English have a reputation for not learning a foreign language so if you can speak a language with a strange accent then they assume that you're from the low countries who have a far better reputation!
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Lots of good advice here, cheers. I think I'll give the Netherlands a go when my contract ends this year.0
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robbo2011 wrote:schweiz wrote:To put those values into perspective, my take home salary is more than double than I could expect in the UK.
Yup, we can afford to buy as much Assos gear as we like
Yeah, but discerning Swiss buy from http://www.cervorosso.com instead!!0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
You don't think his mistaking me for a Belgian was down to my natty attire then...?schweiz wrote:I think it might be more to do with the fact that the English have a reputation for not learning a foreign language so if you can speak a language with a strange accent then they assume that you're from the low countries who have a far better reputation!
can you still play the trumpet with that 'tache?
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I play with the mouthpiece clipped in. I can get more power going up scales that way.schweiz wrote:can you still play the trumpet with that 'tache?0 -
To actually answer the question, and being realistic about my industry (wherever there is oil) my options could be:-
*London
*Aberdeen (hells no!)
*Norway
*Vienna (1 company)
*Houston
*Paris/Pau (couple of options)
*Perth/West Oz
The option that I think I'd definitely take is Vancouver, just the best possible place for Mountain Biking in the summer and Skiing in the winter - but unfortunately everyone knows that and the Canadian Oil Industry is not what it once was
I'm thinking London or Norway...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:To actually answer the question, and being realistic about my industry (wherever there is oil) my options could be:-
Ddraver, I know quite a few guys who work in the oil and gas industry. I'm lead to believe if you work offshore you can live anywhere in the world and the company will get you to the rig / support ship. For example... you could live anywhere you want, then fly to Aberdeen Dyce airport for a stint offshore then fly home. Unless you are onshore?
A friend of mine has had contracts all over the world but always lived at the same home address."The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
from my experience of the netherlands, id say it was only some of the elderly (my ex's grandmother as an example) who didnt speak english, but again i expereinced when you are in shops etc and try to speak dutch they just respond in english. the young (in rotterdam and den haag at least) seem to universally speak good english, but at least for me people made an effort to speak in english in group converstaions with my ex's friends so i wasnt left out. i picked up a bit but as we were not living over there, i didnt need to learn it fluently (although i dare say i would have in time regardless)
DDraver interesting comment: " found themselves Dutch partners (which is very difficult)"
how so?
have i missed a once in a lifetime opportunity with my former gf!?! knew i had f*cked up in letting that one go!!
interesting that no one else has said USA like i have! cant all be yankophobes here! would have thought someone would have said Boulder by now.0 -
ben - no I'm onshore - I just find the stuff, someone else goes and get's it
Mantis - this is controversial, but as a nation, they re not the friendliest people to get to know and make friends with. I ve heard an awful lot of stories of people have moved here, full of good intentions about not being one of "those" expats, but they ve all really struggled. Basically they have their groups of friends like School friends, Uni friends, Work friends, Sports club friends and Never shall they mix! In fact if you try and mix them up they really really don't like it!
So if you re in a bar talking to someone, they are out with their XXX friends, and you ll be part of another group. So moving from random chat in a bar (or wherever) to an actual friend is really hard.
The trouble with moving to USA is that I'm too used to having more than 2 weeks holiday a year now. If I went it would be as an Ex-pat with a european company.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:To actually answer the question, and being realistic about my industry (wherever there is oil) my options could be:-
*London
*Aberdeen (hells no!)
*Norway
*Vienna (1 company)
*Houston
*Paris/Pau (couple of options)
*Perth/West Oz
The option that I think I'd definitely take is Vancouver, just the best possible place for Mountain Biking in the summer and Skiing in the winter - but unfortunately everyone knows that and the Canadian Oil Industry is not what it once was
I'm thinking London or Norway...
No Central America or Falkland Islands The one job I did actually apply for abroad before thinking better of it when offered an interview was actually the Falklands when I was young and carefree in the early 90s. The contract included free return flights twice a year by RAF Hercules. The job description for the 2 year contract was almost identical to what I was doing but the salary was double and there was a big tax free lump sum on completion of the 2 years. Can't think why it was so well paid When adding in the total lack of anything to spend the money on I might have made a better financial start to adult life if I'd gone ahead! 0 -
I wondered if anyone considered Norway. I emigrated here almost by accident: came over for a few weeks to support w project, and after 9 months decided to be paid in kroner instead of pounds. Been here 3 years now. English is the working language, and I think the foreigners outnumber the Norwegians, at least in engineering.ddraver wrote:To actually answer the question, and being realistic about my industry (wherever there is oil) my options could be:-
*London
*Aberdeen (hells no!)
*Norway
*Vienna (1 company)
*Houston
*Paris/Pau (couple of options)
*Perth/West Oz
The option that I think I'd definitely take is Vancouver, just the best possible place for Mountain Biking in the summer and Skiing in the winter - but unfortunately everyone knows that and the Canadian Oil Industry is not what it once was
I'm thinking London or Norway...0 -
A large number of people I graduated with moved to Norway, I think every single one of them are still there...
...which is the best endorsement for anywhere I can think of. Most of my friends here are at best ambivalent, and most are desperate to get out!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I emigrated to the IOM just over 5 years ago. No regrets really but the wind can blow and the rain can fall! I love the fact that cycling is not a minority sport over here and I can leave my bike unlocked and it will still be there when I get back to it.
On my commute to work I start on one side of the Island and stop pedalling just before the otherside runs out!0 -
Lived in Dubai now for over 2 years and we love it. Very hot (unbearable almost) in the summer but beautiful weather in the winter. Wife hated it at first but now says it's the best thing we ever did and our 4 year old doesn't really know any different. Was a shock to the system before Christmas for all of us going back to the UK for 4 days before going on to Lapland to see Santa, we were glad to come back and thaw out!0
