What tyres do the pros tend to use?

snaphappyspen

Just a random question, but do they run slicks mainly? Anyone got an insight?

jibberjim

snaphappyspen wrote:

Just a random question, but do they run slicks mainly? Anyone got an insight?

No-one riding on the road should use anything but "slicks" putting a tread on a road tyre just reduces the grip. It's impossible to aquaplane a road bike so tread is useless.

snaphappyspen

jibberjim wrote:

snaphappyspen wrote:

Just a random question, but do they run slicks mainly? Anyone got an insight?

No-one riding on the road should use anything but "slicks" putting a tread on a road tyre just reduces the grip. It's impossible to aquaplane a road bike so tread is useless.

It is? You learn something new every day!

tremayne

Without contradicting anything already said..

The answer is mostly tubs. However, clinchers are just starting to creep into the pro ranks and I think Specialised particular are trying to either test out or gain exposure for some of their racing clinchers (not a total rip roaring success yet).

I think you might find some tread in some of the spring classics (perhaps in the form of that diamond pattern, not sure the technical name) but otherwise, mostly I'd say you'd be looking at slick or not far off.

rick_chasey

Enough people ride tubs that when someone doesn't it's newsworthy.

Broadly speaking it's because it's easier to ride on a punctured / deflating tub than it is a clincher and they're less (read, not) interested in keeping expenditure down (having to buy whole new tyre every time they get a puncture).

keydon

If you're looking to conquer the earth then Veloflex is your androgenous mate!!

TheBigBean

What does your average pro use in training? The same?

thegreatdivide

jibberjim wrote:

snaphappyspen wrote:

Just a random question, but do they run slicks mainly? Anyone got an insight?

No-one riding on the road should use anything but "slicks" putting a tread on a road tyre just reduces the grip. It's impossible to aquaplane a road bike so tread is useless.

Ever seen a Vittoria Corsa?

pomtarr

I'm reading Nico Roche's book at the moment. I can't recall what race it was but the weather was a stinker on a certain stage and his teammates were all on clinchers for extra safety/grip. He decided to go for tubs as they are lighter and he needed to make up some time on his rivals, but it was the wrong choice and he had a torrid time.

So: AG2R use them, at least in the wet.

FransJacques

tremayne wrote:

Without contradicting anything already said..

The answer is mostly tubs. However, clinchers are just starting to creep into the pro ranks and I think Specialised particular are trying to either test out or gain exposure for some of their racing clinchers (not a total rip roaring success yet).

I think you might find some tread in some of the spring classics (perhaps in the form of that diamond pattern, not sure the technical name) but otherwise, mostly I'd say you'd be looking at slick or not far off.

"starting to creep in" isn't quite correct, try "failing for a long time to gain a toe-hold".

Bugno was seen riding Michelin Hi-Lites in the early 90s in a Giro or 2, then Bonjour or FdJ was riding the first iteration of the Axial Pro in the early 2000s, then Tony Martin won a TT (world champs maybe) on clinchers.

There have been many pilot projects like the ones above but so long as pro teams have mechanics and glue, we'll not see clinchers make much headway at the top any time soon.

Most tyres have a diamond or chevron tread on them but we're talking 0.5mms deep at most. I remember a term called 'siping tread' - anyone remember that or knows what it means?

steerpike

jibberjim wrote:

snaphappyspen wrote:

putting a tread on a road tyre just reduces the grip. It's impossible to aquaplane a road bike so tread is useless.

I guess Vittoria put tread on my Rubino Pro's just for a laugh then.

jibberjim

thegreatdivide wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

snaphappyspen wrote:

Just a random question, but do they run slicks mainly? Anyone got an insight?

No-one riding on the road should use anything but "slicks" putting a tread on a road tyre just reduces the grip. It's impossible to aquaplane a road bike so tread is useless.

Ever seen a Vittoria Corsa?

Yes - the "tread" is there 'cos people thing bikes should have one - you can see from looking at the tread it's not going to displace water - it's a diamond pattern ffs, where would the water go? It just deforms to a slick tyre on contact with the ground.

graeme_s-2

A light cosmetic tread pattern can also add a bit of branding and help see the difference between different tyres at a glance.

There is no performance reason that I'm aware of for putting a tread on a road tyre.

shinyhelmut

Aquaplaning speed = 9 times the square root of tyre pressure so assuming a pressure of 100psi is approximately 90 knots or just over 100mph, assuming I remember my ATPL course correctly.

That is why you don't need tread on a road bike tyre.

lostboysaint

That's assuming that all that tread does is disperse water and has nothing whatsoever to do with helping the tyre deform to offer a more effective contact patch, build up more warmth (I'm not going to use the word "heat" in relation to bike tyres) etc.etc.

jibberjim

lostboysaint wrote:

That's assuming that all that tread does is disperse water and has nothing whatsoever to do with helping the tyre deform to offer a more effective contact patch, build up more warmth (I'm not going to use the word "heat" in relation to bike tyres) etc.etc.

So how does the tread do any of those things?

lostboysaint

jibberjim wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

That's assuming that all that tread does is disperse water and has nothing whatsoever to do with helping the tyre deform to offer a more effective contact patch, build up more warmth (I'm not going to use the word "heat" in relation to bike tyres) etc.etc.

So how does the tread do any of those things?

Do you really think a tyre stays the shape that it has when you pump it up and it's unloaded? Do you really think it maintains that shape when you lean it through a bend? Take any amount of rubber away from a solid tread and it allows deformation. The more a tyre deforms the more movement there is in it, the more heat builds up - generating grip etc.

It's basic tyre design.

frenchfighter

Ladies and gentlemen just read this which will close the debate:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!

Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good-quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while in contact with the road.

People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.

dougzz

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Aquaplaning speed = 9 times the square root of tyre pressure so assuming a pressure of 100psi is approximately 90 knots or just over 100mph, assuming I remember my ATPL course correctly.
That is why you don't need tread on a road bike tyre.

I'm not arguing that bike tyres don't aquaplane, but the above seems completely wrong. Surely a huge factor is tyre width, and wall size in relation to the the width, not to mention water depth, and road surface. Surely a big fat slick on a sports car is much more likely to aquaplane than a narrow tyre on something like a 2CV regardless of tyre pressure? By pressure does this refer to the pressure the tyre is inflated to, or the pressure of the contact area of the tyre, which would then include the vehicles weight. By mentioning 100PSI I infer you're meaning tyre pressure, which again would be a factor but it's hard to believe your formula is in anyway meaningful, because there would be so many other factors involved in determining whether aquaplaning took place.

inkyfingers

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Aquaplaning speed = 9 times the square root of tyre pressure so assuming a pressure of 100psi is approximately 90 knots or just over 100mph, assuming I remember my ATPL course correctly.

That is why you don't need tread on a road bike tyre.

You still flying?

rick_chasey

Pressure as in the pressure the tyre exerts on the road. So big fat tyre = lower pressure for given weight.

frenchfighter

The aviation industry has studied this problem very carefully, and has come up with a general guideline as to when hydroplaning is a risk. The formula used in the aviation industry is:

Speed (in knots) = 9 X the square root of the tire pressure (in psi.)

Tire pressure of 100 psi is 104 mph for Hydroplane speed.

Shiny was correct.

frenchfighter

Very cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWt9IC7mGs

steerpike

frenchfighter wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen just read this which will close the debate:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
[/i]

Ah yes, only a matter of time before Mr Brown made an appearance. Of course, this closes the debate because Sheldon Brown is, well, Sheldon Brown and thus cannot be questioned.

Plenty of tread on my Rubino Pro's, must give them a ring and tell them it's not required - I will point them to the thread as proof.

dodgy

steerpike wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen just read this which will close the debate:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
[/i]

Ah yes, only a matter of time before Mr Brown made an appearance. Of course, this closes the debate because Sheldon Brown is, well, Sheldon Brown and thus cannot be questioned.

Plenty of tread on my Rubino Pro's, must give them a ring and tell them it's not required - I will point them to the thread as proof.

I was going to pipe up then saw the Sheldon link and thought no point. But you've said this twice now, I think the tread is there because people expect to see it.

After all, how many times has the "which tyre" type threads been through this?

Tread is needed off road, but assuming you're on road, then a slick tyre is better. probably the Rubino Pros aren't giving too much grip away, and these companies are in the business of selling tyres, not educating a largely ignorant customer base.

steerpike

dodgy wrote:

steerpike wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen just read this which will close the debate:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
[/i]

Ah yes, only a matter of time before Mr Brown made an appearance. Of course, this closes the debate because Sheldon Brown is, well, Sheldon Brown and thus cannot be questioned.

Plenty of tread on my Rubino Pro's, must give them a ring and tell them it's not required - I will point them to the thread as proof.

I was going to pipe up then saw the Sheldon link and thought no point. But you've said this twice now, I think the tread is there because people expect to see it.

After all, how many times has the "which tyre" type threads been through this?

Tread is needed off road, but assuming you're on road, then a slick tyre is better. probably the Rubino Pros aren't giving too much grip away, and these companies are in the business of selling tyres, not educating a largely ignorant customer base.

I just thinking it's worth challenging oft repeated roadie rhetoric sometimes: Sheldon Brown is gospel. Shaved legs are required. Campag only on an Italian bike. Merino is necessary because it 'wicks'. I'm reading Obree's training manual and he debunks a lot of received wisdom.

From Michelin's bike tyre website: "Sometimes tread features can help provide a harder rubber compound a better mechanical link with the road surface, for better grip"

shinyhelmut

inkyfingers wrote:

You still flying?

In the simulator this week but usually yes.

Jez mon

steerpike wrote:

dodgy wrote:

steerpike wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen just read this which will close the debate:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
[/i]

Ah yes, only a matter of time before Mr Brown made an appearance. Of course, this closes the debate because Sheldon Brown is, well, Sheldon Brown and thus cannot be questioned.

Plenty of tread on my Rubino Pro's, must give them a ring and tell them it's not required - I will point them to the thread as proof.

I was going to pipe up then saw the Sheldon link and thought no point. But you've said this twice now, I think the tread is there because people expect to see it.

After all, how many times has the "which tyre" type threads been through this?

Tread is needed off road, but assuming you're on road, then a slick tyre is better. probably the Rubino Pros aren't giving too much grip away, and these companies are in the business of selling tyres, not educating a largely ignorant customer base.

I just thinking it's worth challenging oft repeated roadie rhetoric sometimes: Sheldon Brown is gospel. Shaved legs are required. Campag only on an Italian bike. Merino is necessary because it 'wicks'. I'm reading Obree's training manual and he debunks a lot of received wisdom.

From Michelin's bike tyre website: "Sometimes tread features can help provide a harder rubber compound a better mechanical link with the road surface, for better grip"

Which is odd, because the road tyres which Michelin make are generally sans tread.

Fundamentally, I don't think there can be much difference between a road tyre with a very small amount of tread, as Vittoria produce and the completely smooth tyres as you see on Michelin pro races. If there was, there wouldn't be so much debate when it comes to different tyre brands.

andyp

steerpike wrote:

From Michelin's bike tyre website: "Sometimes tread features can help provide a harder rubber compound a better mechanical link with the road surface, for better grip"

They're hardly going to write "sometimes tread features can help sell tyres to gullible fools" in their marketing material are they?

dougzz

frenchfighter wrote:

The aviation industry has studied this problem very carefully, and has come up with a general guideline as to when hydroplaning is a risk. The formula used in the aviation industry is:
Speed (in knots) = 9 X the square root of the tire pressure (in psi.)
Tire pressure of 100 psi is 104 mph for Hydroplane speed.
Shiny was correct.

OK, and a 'general guideline' for a 747 weighing 200,000Kgs converts accurately to a bike, mmmm - love your science. I bet that guideline doesn't even convert anywhere near accurately for a car.

tonyf34

dougzz wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

The aviation industry has studied this problem very carefully, and has come up with a general guideline as to when hydroplaning is a risk. The formula used in the aviation industry is:
Speed (in knots) = 9 X the square root of the tire pressure (in psi.)
Tire pressure of 100 psi is 104 mph for Hydroplane speed.
Shiny was correct.

OK, and a 'general guideline' for a 747 weighing 200,000Kgs converts accurately to a bike, mmmm - love your science. I bet that guideline doesn't even convert anywhere near accurately for a car.

As it is the forumla above is correct (devised by NASA no less) for most vehicles and only variations in tyre deflection, loading (comparative to tyre limits obviosuly) and tyre design change that.
However because of the very small contact patch of a bicycle tyre (in this case a HP road tyre), generally very high comparative pressure over pretty much all other vehicles, the speed of aquaplaning for road bicycles is actually much higher than the formulated 104mph.
According to Schwalbe the theoretical aquaplane speed would be over 200km/h.
At the end of the day how many cyclists do we know to have actually aquaplaned (different thing to losing grip) it isn't easy getting to really high speeds in the wet anyway and with the inherrant dangers of not being able to stop for bends/turns you'd never get to those speeds anyway, not even the pros....