help with self bike fitting

prhymeate

I know that a lot of people say that a bike fitting is one of the best things to do when you first get a bike but the bottom line is that I can't afford one at the moment. I have a video with basic setup advice though and I'm trying to apply it to my current bike setup.

I am 6'4" with a 90cm/35.5inch inside leg and I weigh 90kg. I own a 63cm Triban 3.

When I first purchased the bike in the summer, I found that I had a lot of neck and shoulder pain because for my legs to feel like I was getting as much power to the pedals as possible the saddle ended up being so much higher than the handlebars and I had to stretch to reach the hoods. My neck ached just looking ahead of me. The bike came with a 120mm stem and I went and purchased a 90mm stem with a 25 degree rise which is essentially for mountain bikes. I'm sure that goes against all road bike rules but it was either that or feel really uncomfortable.

To apply the rule that there should be a straight line down from my knee through to the pedal axel I have to move my saddle as far forward as it will go. When it is at a comfortable height I am left with a saddle that is about 3 inches above my handlebars. If I didn't have the short raised handlebar stem, then the distance would be just over 4 inches.

I imagine it would be much more comfortable if the saddle and handlebars were at the same level, but it seems impossible to achieve without the saddle being really low and my legs being really cramped, or somehow raising the handlebars even more which isn't possible, let alone impractical.

Does anyone have any pointers as to how I can improve my position? Am I making any massive mistakes, or is this pretty much why people pay for fittings instead of asking online?

smidsy

Saddle and handlebars should not be level, the saddle should always be higher than the bars.

If you are struggling with this then I suspect a road bike geometry/position is not for you. Or you have a bike frame too big for you

elderone

Im a beginner also and when i got my first bike i just looked on utube at bike setups and done what was in vids and its been pretty good so far.Some aches and pains are natural as you progress further in distance and i think it takes abit of time to understand your fit.when i pick up my new bike it will be set up for me at the shop so maybe a differnece may show it self.
As for the seat being higher than bars thats just the way road bikes are and you have to fiddle about and try to find the best position for you.This is assuming your bike is correct size for you.
Not much help im afraid but short of a bike fit it,s just trial and error.
good luck

prhymeate

cheers for the replies. I was under the impression that the saddle and handle bars should be at the same level, or at least close to. If I had a flat handlebar stem then the height difference between the saddle and handlebars would be impossible to ride in comfortably. Even with the current setup it's too cramped to ride in the drops for more than a few minutes.

I've done 1,000 miles between July and now if that makes any difference to how much I should be accustomed to riding a road bike.

smidsy

Look at photos of road bikes (i.e with drop bars) and you will see what I mean. The saddle is normally a good way above the bars.

I am not talking pro's here either, just look in the 'your road bike' section on here of peoples bikes.

The saddle height is dictated by its relationship to the cranks (based on your leg length) and the bar height is dictated by your reach which is also adjusted by the stem length/angle and bar type/sizes available.

It's all interlinked and is why so many people end up paying for a fit.

chrisaonabike

smidsy wrote:

Saddle and handlebars should not be level, the saddle should always be higher than the bars.

Why is this?

Mine are at virtually the same height now that I've flipped the stem. The bars weren't all that much lower beforehand.

I flipped the stem to reduce the neckache I was getting - it does seem to be a bit better.

smidsy

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

smidsy wrote:

Saddle and handlebars should not be level, the saddle should always be higher than the bars.

Why is this?

Mine are at virtually the same height now that I've flipped the stem. The bars weren't all that much lower beforehand.

I flipped the stem to reduce the neckache I was getting - it does seem to be a bit better.

It's the way a road bike is designed to be to achieve an aerodynamic position for speed.

There are ofcourse always exceptions (due to peoples bodies) and that is the problem with forums you give an answer and suddenly its you full and total one.

I may have been slightly 'definitive' in my language but essentially if you are getting the saddle and bars at the same level you are negating the design efficiency of a road bike.

Also you should position saddle in relation to crank and then bars in relation to reach. There actual heights are not dictated by each other more by your body dimensions.

rolf_f

smidsy wrote:

It's the way a road bike is designed to be to achieve an aerodynamic position for speed.

This doesn't take into account the geometry of the rider. A short legged, long torso'd rider will need a much smaller height difference between saddle and bars than someone of more normal proportions (or indeed a short torso'd, long legged rider like me). This is why bike fits are needed!

marz

When seated on the saddle with your hands resting in the drops, if you look straight down are you looking at top tube behind the headset or fork and hub in front of the headset? If you arms are reaching forward to reach the drops and looking down you see top tube and not front hub the frame may be too big for you.

smidsy

Rolf F wrote:

smidsy wrote:

It's the way a road bike is designed to be to achieve an aerodynamic position for speed.

This doesn't take into account the geometry of the rider. A short legged, long torso'd rider will need a much smaller height difference between saddle and bars than someone of more normal proportions (or indeed a short torso'd, long legged rider like me). This is why bike fits are needed!

Indeed, seems I was editing as you were posting. Hey Ho.

elderone

On my bike i have tilted the drops towards me and i find it more comfy that way.But im a short arSe.If your stuck with the bike you have then it is just try to get the best fit for you or pop into your local bike shop and ask advice,as it dont cost to ask.

prhymeate

marz wrote:

When seated on the saddle with your hands resting in the drops, if you look straight down are you looking at top tube behind the headset or fork and hub in front of the headset? If you arms are reaching forward to reach the drops and looking down you see top tube and not front hub the frame may be too big for you.

When I look down, the handlebars obstruct the view of the front hub. This is with a short stem with a 25 degree rise though, not the flat 120mm stem that came with the bike. I found that too low and too much of a stretch.

night_porter

It is easy for a new rider to be confused by the term Road Bike, there are in fact many different types of Road Bikes I have listed a few below and they all have different geometries for different types of riding/riders. There are no rules about how you should ride or how you bike should be setup, in fact if you set it up too aggressively and it prevents you from riding then it really isn't setup correctly.

Some types of Road Bikes ALL with dropped handlebars:

Racing bike - short head tube forces bars to be lower than the saddle to reduce aerodynamic resistance because rider has a flatter back. Good for shortish but fast/flat out riding e.g. crit racing

Cross bike - bigger tyred with mud clearance but still fairly aggressively styled because the races only last for 1 hour

Sportive - longer head tube reduces the difference between to saddle and the bars to give a more comfortable and relaxed riding position. This increases wind resistance because rider is more upright but still gives a lower option when in the drops. Better for longer rides as neck isn't craning so much and endurance is more important than speed.

Audax - Similar to Sportive but usually has clearance for mudguards and bigger tyres, when combined with a rack to carry all of your spares and food without the need for a backpack. Again better for longer but unsupported riding typically over 100 miles in distance.

Light Touring - Again higher head tube added to a longer wheelbase so that extra weight can be carried without upsetting the stability of the bike when under load. The saddle will almost definitely be level with the bars and the non-aggressive geometry lends itself to repeated long days in the saddle with comfort at the forefront of it's purpose.

Plenty more types but I am fed up of typing now.

These are not hard and fast rules, anyone can ride any type of bike however they wish but imho if a bike is uncomfortable then do what you need to fix it for you or you will stop riding. Bike fitting can only work depending on the fitter understanding what type of riding YOU want to do. If you want to be the most "efficient" over the shortest distance then that is fine but being the most efficient over a longer distance will be different.

Jim C

First rule of bike fit- there are no rules. The first paragraph of Night Porter is good stuff. Bars and saddle don't need to be in a specific position relative to each other. Have a look outside a cyclist cafe of a weekend and you'll see all sorts of set Ups.
Without spending big money on a bike fit, try to find a 45 degree MTB stem. It may not look 'right' to some. But that's no big deal if it makes ur bike more comfortable.
For bike fit Adrian Timmis and my recommendation - Brian Rourke

MichaelW

At 6'4", no-one makes a bike that is too big for you.
One of the best bike-fit guides is by Peter White. This is not just for racing but for all styles of riding and all sizes of rider.

Big bikes tend to suffer from several flaws:
Small cranks, low bottom brackets, slack seat-tube, short chainstays, narrow bars.

There is one specialist maker of big bikes, Zinn and he specializes in the huge.

Pituophis

Rolf F wrote:

smidsy wrote:

It's the way a road bike is designed to be to achieve an aerodynamic position for speed.

This doesn't take into account the geometry of the rider. A short legged, long torso'd rider will need a much smaller height difference between saddle and bars than someone of more normal proportions (or indeed a short torso'd, long legged rider like me). This is why bike fits are needed!

I fall into the short ar*e category myself unfortunately, and the difference in my seat and bars hight is negligible :oops:
Whether it's because I came to the sport from mtb's or because I am "a bit older", I don't know, but it is just the most comfortable position for me.
Obviously I'm far from quick though :roll:

Sorry, didn't see how old this thread was, and now can't see how to delete it :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

lotus49

Pituophis wrote:

Sorry, didn't see how old this thread was, and now can't see how to delete it :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Since it was started on Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:52 pm I wouldn't describe it as all that old . I suspect you were looking at the OP's joining date rather than the date of the first post.

There doesn't seem to be any way to delete posts on this forum by the way.

Pituophis

Ha cheers. I wondered how I could have got onto such an old thread !?

prhymeate

Thanks again for all the replies guys, I will have a read through the Peter White guide when I get a chance. Went for a short ride after making a couple of changes and it did feel more comfortable but I think I can still improve things.

Pituophis wrote:

Ha cheers. I wondered how I could have got onto such an old thread !?

haha, no worries. I just did the same thing, saw your post and looked at the date of the post above you and couldn't figure out why it was in 2003...especially when it was me that started the thread!

smidsy

Also rule #44 :-)