How many of you have never turned to carbon?
mosa
Posts: 754
Looking for another carbon bike which I know is going to cost quite a bit! I have a trek 1,2 which I supposedly bought as a winter hack but I've never been out (lost interest) as its only for fitness how many of you have always rode aluminium and still keep up in club runs etc achieving decent/good av mph? I know it seems easier when riding a carbon but could I just stick with what I've got ? ( of course I know the answer) I suppose I just want convinced to save my pennies
My bikes
2018 Trek Emonda SL6 Pro
2018 Trek Emonda SL6 Pro
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I have a 2004 aluminium Specialized Allez. It has 9-speed 105 and weighs a little over 9kg. I don't have a carbon bike. I keep up fine on club runs and last year I won multiple races on it. You don't _need_ a carbon bike. A good aluminium bike that you like to ride will be just (or at least almost) as fast.0
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Ive a carbon bike for the summer. A steel fixed wheel for the winter, and an alu cyclocross for messing about on.
All of these bikes are faster than my mates Tarmac Pro SL4. It' s about the rider - not the bike.
The differences between carbon and aluminium in speed terms isn't measurable.0 -
Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!0 -
Its not about the bike !!!
Your also look pretty silly with a fully tricked out carbon race machine and get wipped by the alloy / steel brigade :oops: .
training is far more important; I fit rider will kick ass regardless of what they ride.
Having said that theres a lot to be said for the mental fact of knowing your on a lighter faster bike !0 -
16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
You should have witnessed some of the "pro's" I blew off last year on a MTB with slicks on!!
Pro's can justify the "marginal" gains, who else can I suppose is the question here, Is it a need or a want?B'TWIN Triban 5A
Ridgeback MX60 -
16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
I can only assume that this is a joke. Otherwise you've just made a great job of proving that you know SFA about cycling. Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
Are you taking the mick or serious? The pros use carbon because they are forced to by the manufacturers. They are hardly faster, geometry and the rider dictate much more than the frame materials. I can keep up on my heavy aluminium Virtuoso with the club runs perfectly fine, no one drops me.0 -
MountainMonster wrote:16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
Are you taking the mick or serious? The pros use carbon because they are forced to by the manufacturers. They are hardly faster, geometry and the rider dictate much more than the frame materials. I can keep up on my heavy aluminium Virtuoso with the club runs perfectly fine, no one drops me.
We may have been sucked in by some poor trolling, or a poor attempt at humour.Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
I'm just wrestling with this issue at the moment. Have been using a defy 4 for over a year and love the bike. Only been to a couple of club runs and struggled to keep up. Hoping that if I invest my pennies in a shiny carbon with better components then it will give me a small boost in speed and performance. But I could be deluding myself...0
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Been riding an ally Trek 2.1 since I started seriously cycling 9 months ago. Can now keep up on fast paced Devon club runs on it as my fitness has improved. Have just bought and built up a second hand 5.2 Madone frame as a better bike. The difference is greater than I expected if I'm honest - not sure how much of that is psychological though. Can definitely feel the ride is smoother and seems to climb better. Also feels like a much better power delivery out of the saddle.
However as many others have said - the engine is key. I don't think a carbon bike would be the difference between getting dropped or not.0 -
I ride a Aluminium 2012 Giant Defy 1 and can't imagine a sportive rider needing anything more capable because its just superb... add a £300-£400 set of wheels and you're laughing
But I say if you can afford it then why not? If I won the lottery (or got a bigger student loan from the Gov) then I'd be riding around on a nice carbon bike, or a Caad10 with nice wheels.0 -
16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
This is completely untrue.
Firstly, there are some very light aluminium and steel bikes so there isn't a massive weight difference to start off with. Secondly, the bike just doesn't make that much difference. It's true that a couple of kg lighter will make it a bit easier to get up hills but it will make almost no difference on the flat.
Stick Wiggo on a Raleigh Chopper and he would still beat most of us.0 -
Bearing in mind you lost interest before, why do you think buying a carbon bike would stop that happening a second time?mosa wrote:Looking for another carbon bike which I know is going to cost quite a bit! I have a trek 1,2 which I supposedly bought as a winter hack but I've never been out (lost interest) as its only for fitness how many of you have always rode aluminium and still keep up in club runs etc achieving decent/good av mph? I know it seems easier when riding a carbon but could I just stick with what I've got ? ( of course I know the answer) I suppose I just want convinced to save my pennies
If you really get back into riding a road bike, that would be the time to splash out not now.
People talk about carbon bikes as though they will turn an average rider into Mark Cavendish - it simply isn't true.0 -
My bike is a carrera virtuoso ali and i got it to get into cycling for fitness/healthe benefits.Whats actually happened is I have got hooked on cycling and although still slow etc i have ordered a carbon bike(giant defy comp2).Im not in any way expecting to be faster or better on it but now cycling is my new hobby/passion i dont mind getting something to make me feel better about my self and my hobby.
Funny thing is i,ve done more miles on my carrera since starting than i have on my R1 motorbike which cost a lot more than either of my bikes.
You dont need one,but if you can,why not.Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori0 -
@alihisgreat ... Mines a defy 4. I think it has the same frame but shimano 2300 based groupset which is very much entry level. Lovely bike and no probs with aluminium. and do I need to change it and will I get something significantly better, faster and more comfy by spending another £1500? Or am I just buying into the hype .... Been asking myself this all week0
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Mikey23 wrote:@alihisgreat ... Mines a defy 4. I think it has the same frame but shimano 2300 based groupset which is very much entry level. Lovely bike and no probs with aluminium. and do I need to change it and will I get something significantly better, faster and more comfy by spending another £1500? Or am I just buying into the hype .... Been asking myself this all week
Just test ride a few nicer bikes to see if its worth it... when I was looking at bikes I felt that ~£1k is the minimum spend for a decent bike that didn't feel like an entry level bike.. you should be able to get something very nice for £1500 if you shop around.0 -
Yup, seen a few and will probably go for it in the next few days particularly with 2012 stock being shed but it is an awful lot of money!0
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op...
imho save your money
there's no need for a carbon bike to go fast, i've got two bikes, one al, one steel, and if i ever have a problem keeping up it's because of me not the bike!
aside from needing a bit more oomph to get up a hill, a couple of kg extra vs. a uci limit bike will make little difference, going downhill it actually helps, and unless you're on the front with the fast group there's not going to be much in the aerodynamics either, ok, the heavier wheels will limit acceleration a bit, but if you're not racing that doesn't really matter
if you start racing and decide you want to upgrade, or just simply want to have a bit more bling, that's fine, but there's no shame in aluminium
mikey23...
how about secondhand? as long as you know your size, there are often good bikes advertised in cycling weekly, plus the br for sale section etc.my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Mikey23 wrote:Yup, seen a few and will probably go for it in the next few days particularly with 2012 stock being shed but it is an awful lot of money!
Take your time there's no rush!0 -
Good thinking... I'll invest the money in a six year investment bond instead!0
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ALIHISGREAT wrote:I ride a Aluminium 2012 Giant Defy 1 and can't imagine a sportive rider needing anything more capable because its just superb... add a £300-£400 set of wheels and you're laughing
But I say if you can afford it then why not? If I won the lottery (or got a bigger student loan from the Gov) then I'd be riding around on a nice carbon bike, or a Caad10 with nice wheels.
I also have an aluminium Defy although it is definitely not factory fresh as it has a lot of upgrades on it. It's perfectly capable and I can keep up on club runs no problem. I might upgrade to carbon in the future although I'm note really in any rush as it's great bike and I feel very comfortable riding it.0 -
My winter Bianchi Via Nirone weighs around 9kg now. My Sempre weighs around 7.5kg IS 1.5kg really that much of a difference? I can bet my weight fluctuates between a kilo in a month depending on how active I have been. To say Alu bikes are heavy is so untrue Cannondales CAAD frames are so light I would put them over a cheap carbon frame any day.0
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ALIHISGREAT wrote:Mikey23 wrote:@alihisgreat ... Mines a defy 4. I think it has the same frame but shimano 2300 based groupset which is very much entry level. Lovely bike and no probs with aluminium. and do I need to change it and will I get something significantly better, faster and more comfy by spending another £1500? Or am I just buying into the hype .... Been asking myself this all week
Just test ride a few nicer bikes to see if its worth it... when I was looking at bikes I felt that ~£1k is the minimum spend for a decent bike that didn't feel like an entry level bike.. you should be able to get something very nice for £1500 if you shop around.
Talking of levels of bikes how does one tell the difference between an entry level, mid level and top end bike? From what I've seen it's something like this by amount spent:
Entry Level < £4000
£4000 < Mid Level < £8000
£8000 < Top End
In truth anything in the £1k to £2K price range is still well within entry level range.0 -
Yes, surely this is a send up. Please say it is. Otherwise, yes, you have demonstrated comprehensively that you know sweet FA about bicycles and cyclingMattC59 wrote:16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
I can only assume that this is a joke. Otherwise you've just made a great job of proving that you know SFA about cycling.0 -
thescouselander wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:Mikey23 wrote:@alihisgreat ... Mines a defy 4. I think it has the same frame but shimano 2300 based groupset which is very much entry level. Lovely bike and no probs with aluminium. and do I need to change it and will I get something significantly better, faster and more comfy by spending another £1500? Or am I just buying into the hype .... Been asking myself this all week
Just test ride a few nicer bikes to see if its worth it... when I was looking at bikes I felt that ~£1k is the minimum spend for a decent bike that didn't feel like an entry level bike.. you should be able to get something very nice for £1500 if you shop around.
Talking of levels of bikes how does one tell the difference between an entry level, mid level and top end bike? From what I've seen it's something like this by amount spent:
Entry Level < £4000
£4000 < Mid Level < £8000
£8000 < Top End
In truth anything in the £1k to £2K price range is still well within entry level range.
Its hard to put a price bracket on it really.. I agree that up to £2k is 'entry level' given that MAMILs will likely spend up to £2k on their first bikes.. but it makes more sense to describe the cheapest proper road bikes as entry level i.e. the £500-£1k price range.
Once you get up to £1k you can get a nice bike with a decent frame and finishing kit, 105 groupset, and wheels that you'll still find on bikes selling for £2k hence it won't feel like an entry level bike.0 -
MattC59 wrote:MountainMonster wrote:16mm wrote:Why do you think the pros use carbon? You can't expect to get anywhere fast on aluminium, or even worse steel!
Of course it will cost a bit, but it'll be worth it when you're flying past everyone!. Forget the Ali bike and get a decent carbon bike, and carbon wheels. It all adds up, with 20 watts here and there. Start upgrades with Frame and Wheels then move to bottle cages, seat post and pedals. Only old, fat & slow blokes ride Ali bikes and will tell you the bike doesn't matter, just as you leave them standing at the first hill!!! It's all about marginal gains, but it's taken Team Sky to prove this!
Are you taking the mick or serious? The pros use carbon because they are forced to by the manufacturers. They are hardly faster, geometry and the rider dictate much more than the frame materials. I can keep up on my heavy aluminium Virtuoso with the club runs perfectly fine, no one drops me.
We may have been sucked in by some poor trolling, or a poor attempt at humour.
Whoosh! 0 -
4k is the point that entry level stops ??? ye gods...
I would say that wheels are a better upgrade than frames, switching from a mid price ali to a budget carbon frame isn't worth it cos you only drop a few hundred grams and no real benefit in stiffness etc"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
thescouselander wrote:
Talking of levels of bikes how does one tell the difference between an entry level, mid level and top end bike? From what I've seen it's something like this by amount spent:
Entry Level < £4000
£4000 < Mid Level < £8000
£8000 < Top End.
I think your splits are out. For me anything over £2000 is starting to go away from entry level and having just spent a little over £3k my Basso Astra seems way more than entry level (its 4th out of 5 in their range, so 1 below top frame).Yellow is the new Black.0 -
I've tested a few carbon bikes and hired them whilst on holiday but I'm still to stray from alu and steel. Whilst I've always enjoyed the ride, I've never felt the pull enough to buy.
I'm in the market for a new bike at the minute and keep returning to the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX (both last year and this year's new model) but haven't pulled the trigger as I can't test ride them; obviously, not everyone has the same riding style. No doubt I'll end up with something in steel...0
