Campag 10 speed shifters- differences ?

JamesB

Looking for mid range pair levers but am confused what`s difference Veloce QS Ergopower v. Powershift Ergopower; and Centaur Ergopower 10 speed v. Centaur carbon Ultra shift Ergo (apart from having carbon bits !)
and being much more expensive

Want levers that do multiple cog shifts down and preferably also up. currently have a set of oldish Record on best bike and enjoy facility of multi shifts up and down but from what I can see neither Veloce nor Centaur offer that facility.

Advice on these confusing variations much appreciated. ps also using with cable operated disc

ugo.santalucia

Don't they all do multiple shift?
If you are set on 10 speed, my advice is to source old record or chorus on EBay. Modern veloce/centaur are crap... Full of plastic inside... Not build to last. You can also find spares for those older ones.

JamesB

Ugo, thanks

Once again a straight to the point answer ! I am considering ebay chorus / record old styles as well and your comments

Modern veloce/centaur are crap... Full of plastic inside

do rather push me more in that direction What`s Campag up to these days ? From what I`ve read Power torque is also nbg and requires expensive tools to sort out , why ???

ugo.santalucia

JamesB wrote:

Ugo, thanks

Once again a straight to the point answer ! I am considering ebay chorus / record old styles as well and your comments

Modern veloce/centaur are crap... Full of plastic inside

do rather push me more in that direction What`s Campag up to these days ? From what I`ve read Power torque is also nbg and requires expensive tools to sort out , why ???

I don't know... I think they are competing on price rather than offering better quality... Veloce used to be ace 10 years ago, now is really bottom end

rolf_f

Anything pre Powertorque should be fine (and pre-Powertorque also means multi downshifts). The last Ultratorque Centaur and Veloce are very nice - no plastic I can see and the current shaped hoods which I think are better than the old shape. Sometimes I think about 'upgrading' my 2010 Centaur to Record but I can't actually think of any sensible reason to do it!

I think Power-torque was deliberately introduced to give some point to the range of Campag groupsets. When it was all Ultratorque, the only really sensible (ie non bling related choices) were Veloce for 10 speed and Athena for 11. Nothing else actually served any real practical point.

Now you have Veloce for cheap, Athena for cheap 11 speed and Chorus for nice 11 speed. I wouldn't buy a new Campag Groupset less than Chorus now (which is annoying as I'm perfectly happy with 10 speed).

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

Anything pre Powertorque should be fine (and pre-Powertorque also means multi downshifts). The last Ultratorque Centaur and Veloce are very nice - no plastic I can see and the current shaped hoods which I think are better than the old shape. Sometimes I think about 'upgrading' my 2010 Centaur to Record but I can't actually think of any sensible reason to do it!

Plastic inside... gears made of plastic, that's what I am talking about... don't care about the outer lever... that's aesthetics, it's the plastic gear inside that wears quick... used to be steel even at the bottom of the range... now you need to go higher to get something decent... probably Chorus

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Anything pre Powertorque should be fine (and pre-Powertorque also means multi downshifts). The last Ultratorque Centaur and Veloce are very nice - no plastic I can see and the current shaped hoods which I think are better than the old shape. Sometimes I think about 'upgrading' my 2010 Centaur to Record but I can't actually think of any sensible reason to do it!

Plastic inside... gears made of plastic, that's what I am talking about... don't care about the outer lever... that's aesthetics, it's the plastic gear inside that wears quick... used to be steel even at the bottom of the range... now you need to go higher to get something decent... probably Chorus

I wasn't talking about the outer stuff either. I don't really know anything about Powertorque but 2010 Ultratorque Centaur hardly wears quickly. As I said, I can't see any plastic in the Ultratorque mechs and Campag didn't really distinguish between them either in any significant way. They are probably pretty much identical inside.

Now there are two different mechanisms - Veloce to Athena and Chorus to Super Record. Current Chorus is pretty much the same as Centaur and Veloce from 2 years ago (number of clicks aside).

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Anything pre Powertorque should be fine (and pre-Powertorque also means multi downshifts). The last Ultratorque Centaur and Veloce are very nice - no plastic I can see and the current shaped hoods which I think are better than the old shape. Sometimes I think about 'upgrading' my 2010 Centaur to Record but I can't actually think of any sensible reason to do it!

Plastic inside... gears made of plastic, that's what I am talking about... don't care about the outer lever... that's aesthetics, it's the plastic gear inside that wears quick... used to be steel even at the bottom of the range... now you need to go higher to get something decent... probably Chorus

I wasn't talking about the outer stuff either. I don't really know anything about Powertorque but 2010 Ultratorque Centaur hardly wears quickly. As I said, I can't see any plastic in the Ultratorque mechs and Campag didn't really distinguish between them either in any significant way. They are probably pretty much identical inside.

Now there are two different mechanisms - Veloce to Athena and Chorus to Super Record. Current Chorus is pretty much the same as Centaur and Veloce from 2 years ago (number of clicks aside).

We don't talk the same language... I am talking about the ergo shifters... The gears inside... The mechanism is made of plastic in the lower range...

mercia_man

James, I can definitely recommend getting cheap old Record 10-speed. When I originally built up my Orca in 2008, I fitted carbon Centaur 2007 QS ergo levers after reading a positive Cycling Plus review. I didn't like them at all. I'm sure they were the plastic internal sort that ugo speaks about. The change was very light and indistinct and it was easy to accidentally change two cogs rather than one. The front mech shift was not ratcheted and fine trimmable like previous ergo levers - it was more of an on/off indexed movement, with the change from big to little ring giving a loud noise which resonated through the carbon frame. Horrible.

I replaced the Centaurs with Record 10-speed levers which Merlin were selling off cheap on the introduction of 11-speed. A huge improvement - back to the traditional Campag positive click feel of my old 9-speed Veloce on my touring bike but lighter action. You can change multiple gears on the cassette with no accidental changes and fine trim the front mech. The metal internals of the older levers are all the same apart from the use of bearings rather than bushes for Record and older Chorus.

ugo.santalucia

Mercia Man wrote:

James, I can definitely recommend getting cheap old Record 10-speed. When I originally built up my Orca in 2008, I fitted carbon Centaur 2007 QS ergo levers after reading a positive Cycling Plus review. I didn't like them at all. I'm sure they were the plastic internal sort that ugo speaks about. The change was very light and indistinct and it was easy to accidentally change two cogs rather than one. The front mech shift was not ratcheted and fine trimmable like previous ergo levers - it was more of an on/off indexed movement, with the change from big to little ring giving a loud noise which resonated through the carbon frame. Horrible.

I replaced the Centaurs with Record 10-speed levers which Merlin were selling off cheap on the introduction of 11-speed. A huge improvement - back to the traditional Campag positive click feel of my old 9-speed Veloce on my touring bike but lighter action. You can change multiple gears on the cassette with no accidental changes and fine trim the front mech. The metal internals of the older levers are all the same apart from the use of bearings rather than bushes for Record and older Chorus.

That is exactly what I meant with my scattered blathering...

JamesB

Thanks all onto ebay watch now !!!

look565wong

Hi James,

This might seems out of the blue, reading your post suggested to me you're on the look out for some Campagnolo group-set, preferably Chorus or above?

If you are then I might have just the thing(s) you want. If not then I apologise for jumping into unnecessary conclusion.

I have a complete used Record 10s UT compact group set I'm going to sell soon.
Let me know if you're interested & I'll PM you with more details.

Regards

Chung

JamesB

Just the shifters

look565wong

No worries!

Good luck on your search!

Cheers

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am talking about the ergo shifters... The gears inside... The mechanism is made of plastic in the lower range...

Oh I'm confused; of course it is Ultra shift vs Powershift. But they are all Ergos; Campags fault for silly naming conventions. I think maybe you are confusing the Powershift Ergos made now with the Ultrashift Ergos from 2010 and earlier.

Certainly, what I can see of my Centaur Ultra Ergos is all metal. There are very few spare parts listed for Ergo shift levers that distinguish between the groupsets (the only bits that seem to differ between models are the external parts plus a cartridge bearing for the Record and Chorus shift lever that is presumably a bushing on the lower models and costs less than a tenner as a spare part; the gear and ratchet are the same for all models). It's remarkable how little extra you do get with the higher range shifters.

Incidentally, why do people complain about Campag needing all sorts of special tools when Shimano even require a special tool for the plastic end cap on the Hollowtech axle end?! All it needs is a slot for a screwdriver!

Idler

Post 2010 Centaur (and Veloce etc?) - ie Powershift levers, no longer allow multiple shifts. Also agree that quality has suffered as the price was reduced. For 10 speed shifters you really need to go Chorus or Record (2010 Centaur is now hard to find and usually goes for around 10 spd Chorus price anyway). The only disadvantage is the Chorus/Record shifters will have the older shape.

I have 2005 Centaur on one bike and that is the best shifting groupset I have (others are 2010 Centaur and 10 spd Chorus).

Idler

Sorry - one more thing. Post 2010 Centaur etc do not allow the same degree of front derailleur trimming (probably more important than multiple shifts actually).

JamesB

How do old Xenons measure up ? ie the old shape 10 speed?
Missed out on ebay Chorus which went for >£150 :shock:

ugo.santalucia

JamesB wrote:

How do old Xenons measure up ? ie the old shape 10 speed?
Missed out on ebay Chorus which went for >£150 :shock:

How old? If it's Xenon 10 it can't be that old... To give you an idea Veloce 9 was awesome, but Veloce 10 not so... I can't really remember when they "upgraded"... maybe 2004?
Basically when they got rid of the ratchet on the front shifter, things went downhill with the escape mechanism that was awful and the more recent one which is crap too