Ksyrium Elite vs. Wheelsmith Race 23

rnath

Excuse yet another wheel advice thread...

Think I'll be treating myself to some new wheels in Jan and I think it's down to these two (£500 absolutely max budget). I'm a 60-100 mile Sunday Surrey-hills kind of rider (in no way a racer), 140lbs. I guess comfort over distance and solid climbing/descending are my main needs. There are plenty of reviews of the Ksyriums on the web, but seemingly little on the Race 23's - just wondered if anyone here has had the chance to compare them? Cheers...

EKIMIKE

You probably won't find anything much stiffer than Ksyrium's. It's a nice sensation cranking it up a hill. But the ride is incredibly harsh. They're also a massive pain (to wallet and plums) if/when they go wrong or need a little maintenance.

On the other hand the Race 23's are about as easy as it get's for maintenance. Plus spares are, and will always be, readily available. They're a small chunk lighter (CX-Ray version for sure). Probably noticeable in feel (i'm not talking tangibles like speed). Light wheels also make for a nice sensation going up-hill but less in terms of cranking, more like sat-down tempo riding.

Here's the deal breaker, according to your specification: the Race 23's are probably going to make for a more comfortable ride. They won't be as brutally stiff and they have the wide rim bed thing going on.

Your brief points towards the Race 23's. I haven't ridden both, but i have ridden a pair of Ksyrium Elite's for years and i've had a small taste of 23mm wide rims. I'd go for the Race 23's.

bmxboy10

My Ksyriums are not harsh, look fantastic, are light and according to the reviews at least will stay true and are bullet proof. Nuff said

EKIMIKE

Well according to my review which has been conducted over 4 years (far longer than any magazine test) they will not stay true and the spokes are eating each other. They also ride harshly in my experience but maybe harsh isn't the ride word for everyone. CyclingPlus deftly beat around this bush:

"The trade-off for stiffness is more direct feedback from the road. They’re not harsh, but more buzz gets through than with some of their rivals..."

If they hadn't put "they're not harsh" in there you'd be forgiven for interpreting those two sentences as: they ride harshly. Typical BS from CyclingPlus :roll:

EKIMIKE

For some reason the word feed.back is censored.

bmxboy10

enter NapD

smidsy

A wheel built with low spoke count tends to be harsher due to the tension needed in the spokes.

I certainly notice a difference between my American Classic Aero 420's and my handbuilt Ambrosio Excellights with 32 spokes. I still like the AC's but they are definitely more 'direct'.

napoleond

solboy10 wrote:

enter NapD

The Ksyrium Elites are fantastic! Stiff, light, stiff, smooth, stiff, sin well, stiff, look amazing. Not had any of the problems Ekimike has had but mine are the 2011 wheels.

However. I'd go for the Wheelsmiths... The guy knows what he's doing. I have a pair of very light (except for the rear powertap pro hub) wheels built by him on IRD rims and they are just as stiff as the ksyriums but much lighter (if it wasn't for the rear hub!). I'd love to try the 23s and as they have an anodised finish they look ace!

ugo.santalucia

There are probably 10-20 of these sets around, while there are tens if not hundreds of thousands Ksyrium around the world, which explains the difference in the number of reviews.

Going for a bespoke product which is not bespoke is a bit of an oxymoron... if you want the Wheelsmith 23, speak to Derek and have them made for you, rather than made as a generic set... for instance you can save a lot of money by swapping the expensive CX Ray spokes with some conventional double butted ones... frankly for your riding the CX Ray are superfluous.
Just to give you an idea, a single CX ray costs 2.50 while one Sapim race costs 50 pence, project that difference over the nearly 50 spokes and you should be able to save nearly 100 pounds.
The black H plus Son rims are very nice and ride very well, the hubs as offered are a taiwanese product, bit of a Bitex copy (one thing they do well in the far east is copying each other's designs) which is designed to be light, but not to last for tens of thousands of miles... I would rather invest the 100 above in a better set of hubs.

As for the Ksyrium... they've been around for ages, they are reliable and have good hubs... if you don't need spares they will serve you well and you will be happy with them, if you do need spares you will regret the purchase.

napoleond

...

Dunno what happened there!

Evil Laugh

So the race 23 are archetypes?

My experience of hplusson is not the best. Brake surface was very narrow and not the best. Both rims cracked at the spoke holes after a year. Be interested to hear if these new rims are any better.

napoleond

I believe they aren't H Plus Son.

ugo.santalucia

Evil Laugh wrote:

So the race 23 are archetypes?

My experience of hplusson is not the best. Brake surface was very narrow and not the best. Both rims cracked at the spoke holes after a year. Be interested to hear if these new rims are any better.

Brake track is actually higher than Velocity rims... Certainly enough to cover the full pad area and more. Pads need to be placed correctly but that is a given.
These are well built, but all rims with no eyelets are at risk of cracking... Spoke tension needs to be kept moderately high. I have seen rims tensioned up to 160 KgF, which inevitably results in premature fatigue cracks. 110-120 is a safer bet... By doing so the NDSide might require more attention as it will lose tension in time, but it is the price to pay to extend rims life
Ultimately it is down to mileage as well... What model was yours?

EKIMIKE

Don't get me wrong, Ksyriums are great when they're working. The problem comes a few years down the line when a couple bits need replacing or maintenance. You'll be pissed off when you've got a few dodgy spokes and a dodgy hub but two perfectly fine rims, plenty of decent spokes and a decent hub but it'll cost you more than they're worth to get the dodgy bits fixed. And it's not likely you're going to get another 4 years out of them before the rims get knackered.

With the Race 23's everything is repairable or replaceable with standard tools and at a sensible price either by doing it yourself, taking them in to the LBS or picking one of a multitude of reputable wheel builders around the country. It just makes more sense.

essjaydee

Oooooh....just had a look on the Wheelsmith site at the Race 23's, and they would look uber cool on my black/white Super6 8)

napoleond

I think they'd look cool on pretty much any bike!

If I didn't have my ksyriums is go for the 23s as my do it all wheel. That said, when my ksyriums start to mess up I'll be making the switch...

T.C.

looking at new wheels myself - same budget - been offered mavic rims - Hope hubs and DT swiss spokes for £390 - local build as well - I lifted a pair yesterday and they were very light - he reckons 1200-

napoleond

No way are hope hubs, Mavic rims and DT spokes anywhere near 1200g! More like 16-1700.

T.C.

what about the overall package though Nap?

napoleond

Yeah they'd be good, reliable, serviceable, noisy (hope hubs sound like a kid's bike). Depends on the quality of the builder.
Seem pricey though considering the cost of the parts...

Evil Laugh

I had sl42.

Braking performance was poor compared to dura ace, Mavic and fulcrum wheels I'd also swap between.

ugo.santalucia

Evil Laugh wrote:

I had sl42.

Braking performance was poor compared to dura ace, Mavic and fulcrum wheels I'd also swap between.

Machining is pretty much the same across the industry (and disappears after a few thousand miles) and the alloys used are remarkably similar in hardness, so there should not be any perceivable difference between rims, but for the position of the pads... in rims with low brake track, the pads need to be bang on... if you swap wheels without readjusting them, chances are one set or the other will not brake too well

Evil Laugh

Well I had to readjust as the da wheels are significantly wider. There was no bite to the braking. The machining looked totally different to me. Much finer on shimano/fulcrum/Campag rims. I fail to believe I would consistently set the brakes up poorly solely on the sl42 rims. But whatever, just an observation, not exactly controlled testing.

Is there confirmation on who makes the race 23 rims? They do look like archetypes.

colinsmith123

What about using the Wheelsmith Race 23 as a race wheel ? The answer seems to be in the title, but you never know