Limited by lungs on hills, legs on the flat

chrisaonabike

Ok, so this is a fairly consistent pattern, noticed over many rides round my favourite nearby route - Richmond Park and its surrounds to the North and West.

The thing that kills me on the hills - Broomfield in particular - is my ability to get oxygen in. Haven't measured my HR yet, but it's thumping away like crazy and I'm breathing very fast and deep. By the time I get to the top it feels pretty much like I'm at max effort, and it's several hundred yards on the flat at the top before I start to feel like I might not die after all. Legs don't feel too bad, however.

Whereas, on the flat, it's the lactate building up - quads mostly - that stops me really pushing. Unlike on the hills, I'm not really breathing all that hard, but the legs are really limiting.

a) Any ideas why the difference?
b) Is it just a question of keep pushing while it hurts, and I'll get faster on the flat?

I guess I might also try a lower gear and higher cadence on the flat, see if that changes the limiting factor.

alihisgreat

It depends on the hill and I'm not familiar with the ones you're riding..

but sometimes its easier to just smash up it and reach the top gasping than to try and grind it out and pace yourself.

Reane_Machine

If you're building up an oxygen debt when you're breathing deep and hard then it might be better to try and mash it in a lower gear, which will keep you HR a bit lower and maybe your body could clear the lactate faster?

On the flats i'd try a higher gear too, see if you feel more comfortable.

Otherwise I'd say it's just a case of carrying on. More training will mean you get fitter and the muscles may not be as limiting.

lc1981

It's interesting to read this. I find that, after my first year of road cycling, it's pretty much always my legs that are the constraint. My legs will be screaming before I start to get out of breath. The only couple of exceptions I can think of were the club hill climb championship and a ride when my legs felt so good that I was able to push harder than usual. Incidentally, I should be making my first trip to Richmond Park on Sunday or perhaps next week.

Strith

It can depend on a lot of things too though. I'll assume your newish to cycling, but are you new to exercise in general too? I mean I've ridden with some of my mates (ones that don't exercise generally) and after about 3 miles they look like they might die!

Short answer on hillclimbing is that you need to just do more hill climbing. Gearing might help but to be honest broomfield is very short (although steep) and most people just power up it. I used to ride up it fixed doing laps before work sometimes. I know that might sound a bit condescending, but trust me, keep at it and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

If you're legs are giving up on the flat I'd suggest you adjust your cadence and/or speed until you fitness improves.

It all takes time but keep it up through the grim winter months if you can, and if summer ever comes back you'll be in good form.

Mikey23

Sounds like its all going quite well. For what it's worth I came to cycling last year after many seasons of endurance running to quite a high standard and still felt as you described. It will get easier over time as you get stronger and work out how to ride. Hills hurt and so do sustained efforts on the flat

houndlegs

I've always been curious about the lactic thing,how do you know if you have it? What does it feel like?

chrisaonabike

houndlegs wrote:

I've always been curious about the lactic thing,how do you know if you have it? What does it feel like?

Pain. Burning, aching pain. In muscles, during high intensity effort. If the effort continues, the pain gets worse. Eventually it limits the effort.

Stop the effort, the pain disappears more or less instantly.

elderone

I am the same as regards hills and I always use a heart monitor and on steep hills it gets very high and although my legs arnt struggling I always back off when my HR gets into the 90% of my max (171 at 49years old).
As far as just grinding away regardless to the top,well thats not something im going to risk and I will take the time = fitness route and hopefully that will make things easier.
For the flats just try lower gear and higher cadence as this seems the best adviced way to progress.Also hills are the challenge but base miles are whats needed,which is the no glory, slow pace pace to build basic fitness route.well that,s what i,ve read at least

Do get a HRM though and you can train in the zones a lot easier plus help prevention in over doing it.


When used to train and compete in another sport I used to get lactate build up in my arms(slalom canoeing,)and it didn,t go away straight away,but took a good while.It got so bad my lower arms would just refuse to function and my hands would just lock solid,very painful untill settled again.
Lactate tolerence takes years to build and Ithink if yours is going quickly then your at a low tolerence level.Like everything else,the more and harder you work the threshold is pushed back.

Monty Dog

Training adaptation will help with both your lactate tolerance and ability to get up hills, it's just a case of cycling more. Not quite hitting the bottom of the hill as hard might help with getting you over the crest as you'll even out the effort. Certainly worth using an HRM to help gauge your efforts if you know your max - which can be quite different for each individual.

chrisaonabike

elderone wrote:

Lactate tolerence takes years to build and I think if yours is going quickly then you're at a low tolerence level. Like everything else,the more and harder you work the threshold is pushed back.

Very likely. I should probably bear rule 20 more in mind. I've always been very pain averse, so it's a tough habit to break.

I'll report back when I've tried the lower gear/higher cadence approach on the flat - it might be dry enough out to ride tomorrow, so I'm fancying another go at Box Hill.

dynamicbrick

What I've found on climbs is that the faster the breathing the more likely you are to blow yourself out.

Get into the hill fast, and just come up through the gears as you scrub off speed. Concentrate on finding a cadence and sticking with it, getting your breathing in rhythm with cadence. Ignore the road speed, just concentrate on the cadence. As your fitness and strength improve over time you'll find you're not climbing up through the cassette so much.

When I was doing interval running during my rugby playing days, the rule of thumb was 'breathe in for five steps, out for two'. Breathing in a certain way requires practice, just like anything else. Try slowing the breathing on the inhale and get it rhythmic.

Last point, there's a lot of willy-waving macho guff about 'sur la plaque'. Gearing is as much about leverage as it is about speed. Sticking on the big ring and grinding up the hill requires a lot more strength (and thus oxygen in your blood) than spinning up on the small ring.

Can't advise on lactic acid - I've never had it in the legs from cycling, only from weight training (squats, lunges, etc)

amaferanga

You need to work on your fitness and perhaps look at your bike set-up. You may be sitting differently on hills vs flat. And how are your cleats set fore/aft?

ethanhayes

lc1981 wrote:

It's interesting to read this. I find that, after my first year of road cycling, it's pretty much always my legs that are the constraint. My legs will be screaming before I start to get out of breath.

I wish I was like that. The odd time my legs do hurt I find it pretty easy to just power on through that pain. But when my lungs can't keep up I feel very sick, most of the time I have to stop or I'll literally feel like I'm about to come off and die

lc1981

ethanhayes wrote:

lc1981 wrote:

It's interesting to read this. I find that, after my first year of road cycling, it's pretty much always my legs that are the constraint. My legs will be screaming before I start to get out of breath.

I wish I was like that. The odd time my legs do hurt I find it pretty easy to just power on through that pain. But when my lungs can't keep up I feel very sick, most of the time I have to stop or I'll literally feel like I'm about to come off and die

Well, before you wish too much, consider that the point at which your lungs start to hurt may well be far beyond the point when my legs give up!

roger_merriman

Give your self time, ie get out and ride the bike.

I commute to work with the odd extra roll around the North Downs either SS or MTB resting pluse now 50 give or take.