Instagram

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  • Ian.B
    Ian.B Posts: 732
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    You lot seen the forum T&C's?

    The website T&Cs say:
    If you upload, post or otherwise transmit any Content to the Website, you automatically: .........(b) grant Future and its group companies a non-exclusive, royalty free, sub-licensable, perpetual, world-wide licence to use, modify, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such Content: (i) on and through the Website and the Website Service and in all promotional materials relating thereto; and (ii) in any other form or medium (including but not limited to other Future publications) provided that We have obtained your prior permission to do so. You continue to own the Content after it is posted to the Website.
    I think it is the proviso here that distinguishes this site from what Instagram are, as I understand, now proposing to do
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    The key to this (which I think Busta is missing) is that Instagram (or, probably more accurately, their relatively new owner, Facebook) have changed their T&Cs. Your only option, as a user, if you don't agree to these new T&Cs is to delete your account. It's par for the course with FB - they are forever pushing the limits of ownership and privacy to try to improve their stock price...
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    rjsterry wrote:

    There is no verb 'to copyright' - it's not something you do to an image or other artefact after its creation. As someone pointed out above, you can retain copyright, but give or sell a license for limited or unlimited use.

    If you own the copyright of an image then there must be a way you can prove ownership.

    From what I'm led to believe, you are entering into an agreement with instagram that waives any copyright you may/may not have.

    If you're serious about your photography then simply don't use such services.
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    meanredspider wrote:
    The key to this (which I think Busta is missing) is that Instagram (or, probably more accurately, their relatively new owner, Facebook) have changed their T&Cs. Your only option, as a user, if you don't agree to these new T&Cs is to delete your account. It's par for the course with FB - they are forever pushing the limits of ownership and privacy to try to improve their stock price...

    Again, I don't see the problem? If you disagree then delete your account! It's not like they've done this after stealing your photo's is it?

    So who's been wronged??
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    Bustacapp wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    The key to this (which I think Busta is missing) is that Instagram (or, probably more accurately, their relatively new owner, Facebook) have changed their T&Cs. Your only option, as a user, if you don't agree to these new T&Cs is to delete your account. It's par for the course with FB - they are forever pushing the limits of ownership and privacy to try to improve their stock price...

    Again, I don't see the problem? If you disagree then delete your account! It's not like they've done this after stealing your photo's is it?

    So who's been wronged??

    Well - apart from invest time and effort in putting them up there in the first place.

    It's kinda like getting a "free" bus ride somewhere and partway there they say they're changing the T&Cs and there's some catch. If you don't agree, you're free to get off the bus. Some people would feel they were lucky to get a bit of a bus ride and others would feel like they were misled and dumped only partway to their destination - especially if there were other free bus services with no catches. Maybe not a great analogy but hints at why I'm irritated by it
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    meanredspider wrote:
    Maybe not a great analogy but hints at why I'm irritated by it

    Not the best really as being dumped in the middle of nowhere would be criminal.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    Bustacapp wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    Maybe not a great analogy but hints at why I'm irritated by it

    Not the best really as being dumped in the middle of nowhere would be criminal.

    But you get my drift (I hope). If not, then I don't think you're ever going to get it. You don't have to agree but there was enough concern about this for Instagram to respond to those concerns so I'm guessing it has hurt them.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,877
    Bustacapp wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:

    There is no verb 'to copyright' - it's not something you do to an image or other artefact after its creation. As someone pointed out above, you can retain copyright, but give or sell a license for limited or unlimited use.

    If you own the copyright of an image then there must be a way you can prove ownership.

    From what I'm led to believe, you are entering into an agreement with instagram that waives any copyright you may/may not have.

    If you're serious about your photography then simply don't use such services.

    No. This is not what copyright is. A work is automatically under copyright as soon as it is created. Say I take a photo and publish it on Instagram: I'll still retain the copyright, but I will have given them license to use my photo as they see fit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    rjsterry wrote:
    No. This is not what copyright is. A work is automatically under copyright as soon as it is created. Say I take a photo and publish it on Instagram: I'll still retain the copyright, but I will have given them license to use my photo as they see fit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Copyright Law of the United Kingdom? I assume Instagram is American so there's a possible conflict straight away.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ted_States

    ^^The American copyright law seems to require registration at a copyright office. Which to me makes total sense.

    So in the UK you would still have to prove that you produced that image in some way if you wanted to sue?
  • marz
    marz Posts: 130
    Bustacapp wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    No. This is not what copyright is. A work is automatically under copyright as soon as it is created. Say I take a photo and publish it on Instagram: I'll still retain the copyright, but I will have given them license to use my photo as they see fit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Copyright Law of the United Kingdom? I assume Instagram is American so there's a possible conflict straight away.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ted_States

    ^^The American copyright law seems to require registration at a copyright office. Which to me makes total sense.

    So in the UK you would still have to prove that you produced that image in some way if you wanted to sue?

    Nope, in the USA it's this...

    Under the Federal Copyright Act of 1976, photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of creation.

    They is no requirement to register anything with a copyright office. It's your until you give that right away (like signing up for a Instagram account).

    The problem with the new Instragram T&C is that they can not only use your pictures as they wish (providing your face to the makers of haemorrhoid cream) but also advertise to people you may know without informing them that they are advertising and that you have not endorsed the product. All without paying you a penny.

    If this is way facebook and instagram are going to go, they'll be dead in about 8 months.
  • Paul E
    Paul E Posts: 2,052
    I didn't use it much, maybe twice (about a year ago) but this made me delete the account.
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    marz wrote:
    If this is way facebook and instagram are going to go, they'll be dead in about 8 months.

    Not a chance will facebook die unless something much better takes a grip.
  • anti_podean
    anti_podean Posts: 32
    Bustacapp wrote:
    Nope, not trolling. If you are the creator of an image and someone else claims credit for that, then it is either:

    a) Your fault for not copyrighting it.
    b) Your fault for signing your copyright over to instagram by virtue of using their website. Isn't it in their t&c's?
    Read up on the Berne Convention and, for UK residents, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act (summary). Creating a work automatically assigns copyright to its creator. You can pee on a blank canvas then throw some rice on it, and its copyright as an artistic work is immediately yours. No need to sign anything; no need to post a copy of it to yourself in a postmarked envelope left unopen.

    Though you're right that it's disturbingly easy to "agree" to hand over your ownership to content via online services, though I suspect it could be argued successfully in court if you had the means and motivation.

    Instagram's existing T&Cs give them specific limited rights to your images on the service, and ownership remains yours. The fundamental change that their new ToS seeks to make is that while you may own your content, they can do anything they like with it, use it to make money (e.g. an airline pays Instagram to use one of your flattering pictures of them in their next global ad compaign), you won't be able to withdraw consent, and this happens automatically unless you act to prevent it by 16 January, hence the furore. Compare the existing wording (Item 1) and the new wording (Items 2 and 3).

    Facebook tried the same thing a few years ago, but got slapped down for it and did some serious back-pedalling With Instagram being the biggest free photographic resource on the Internet they'd be mad not to try it again. Expect to see the pending ToS wording change very soon along with obligatory back-pedalling. :lol:
  • ShutUpLegs
    ShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    Bustacapp wrote:
    marz wrote:
    If this is way facebook and instagram are going to go, they'll be dead in about 8 months.

    Not a chance will facebook die unless something much better takes a grip.

    People getting a life :?:
  • Paul E
    Paul E Posts: 2,052
    ShutUpLegs wrote:
    Bustacapp wrote:
    marz wrote:
    If this is way facebook and instagram are going to go, they'll be dead in about 8 months.

    Not a chance will facebook die unless something much better takes a grip.

    People getting a life :?:

    Oh no don't disagree with him or tell him he is wrong
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Paul E wrote:
    ShutUpLegs wrote:
    Bustacapp wrote:
    marz wrote:
    If this is way facebook and instagram are going to go, they'll be dead in about 8 months.

    Not a chance will facebook die unless something much better takes a grip.

    People getting a life :?:

    Oh no don't disagree with him or tell him he is wrong
    Maybe he bought the shares. :lol:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    Paul E wrote:
    Oh no don't disagree with him or tell him he is wrong
    1733676-u_mad_bro.jpg
  • Bustacapp
    Bustacapp Posts: 971
    ShutUpLegs wrote:
    getting a life :?:

    never gonna happen.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,877
    And as predicted by Anti Podean, they have U-tuened on the change already.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Let's be honest.

    No-one's going to give a monkeys about my pictures. Do they really want a couple of holiday snaps and a picture of a bike?
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    rjsterry wrote:
    And as predicted by Anti Podean, they have U-tuened on the change already.

    3 steps forward, 2 steps back ;).

    Still get the step forward necessary.
    _
  • mrc1
    mrc1 Posts: 852
    I do love the fact that so many people are tweeting pictures of them closing their Instagram accounts using Twitpic - a service with the same licensing provisions.
    http://www.ledomestiquetours.co.uk

    Le Domestique Tours - Bespoke cycling experiences with unrivalled supported riding, knowledge and expertise.

    Ciocc Extro - FCN 1
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    mrc1 wrote:
    I do love the fact that so many people are tweeting pictures of them closing their Instagram accounts using Twitpic - a service with the same licensing provisions.
    Twits. :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • anti_podean
    anti_podean Posts: 32
    rjsterry wrote:
    And as predicted by Anti Podean, they have U-tuened on the change already.
    Anyone need next week's lottery numbers?

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