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Advice on Trekking Custom Wheels

uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
edited December 2012 in Commuting general
Hi guys,

Can you give me some advice on a HUB for a trekking bike for long trips? It has to be 36 holes and non necessary disk brake. I guess if the HUB has disk will not affect if i use V Brake, right?

I will like to build my own custom wheel for a trekking bike. Actually a bike mechanic will since i lack from experiencie. I will use

RIMS
Mavic 2013 A119 Road Rim
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=71066

they are unexpensive and have quite good reviews.


I have a 700 or 29 bike size (Kona Smoke).
http://www.konaworld.co/bike.cfm?content=smoke

By the way, how do i calculate spoke lenght for my HUB? I will surely use DT Swiss. I found this spoke calculator online.
http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic/uk/calcul.htm

what is lancing?

Sorry for so many questions.

Kind Regards,
Sebastian

Posts

  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I would buy an of the shelf set from an online supplier, will be far cheaper.

    This will do the trick nicely:

    http://www.davehinde.com/road-bikes/whe ... -rims.html
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    Thanks for the fast reply supersonic.

    In fact, those wheels looks quite nice. Just curious, don't you think Shimano Tiagra Hubs are a bit weak for trekking and a fully load bike? They are listed as road hubs and look a bit thin indeed compared to a hub like this one

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=3987

    but i might be mistaken.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    They should be fine, are tough hubs, even described in the ad for touring. Most shimano hubs do not break easily, but can need servicing frequently.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Though check the distance between the frame dropouts on the rear - 130mm or 135mm?
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    Very interesting info Supersonic.
    Thanks indeed. I will have to check the frame dropout to be sure just in case.

    Just to be curious, do you know another brand besides Shimano which make quality hubs but it is not incredible expensive as DT Swiss for example?
  • MichaelWMichaelW Posts: 2,164
    Kona Smoke uses MTB axle spacing of 135mm so 130mm road hubs like Tiagra do not fit.
    Of the Shimano hubs, the best one used to be XT and many still recommend it BUT they may be using the old version. The new version uses an over-sized aluminium axle (for extra stiffness !!) and reduces the diameter of the bearings to fit inside the hub. They may also have made the freehub shell thinner since they now explode at random. Smaller bearings wear more rapidly and are not what a tourist needs.
    The best hub, that retains the traditional steel axle, is LX. They have downgraded the bearing seals from "MTB" grade to "Trekking" grade (again: !!!!) but the seals seem to be adaquate. After 3 months of loaded touring, my LX rear hub was clean and full of grease.
    There is no real alternative to Shimano LX in terms of price/performance. Shimano are cold forged, very strong, reliable and durable. The daddy of touring hubs is Phil Woods.

    Butted spokes come in different widths, usually 14/15 gauge and 13/14 g. I prefer the thicker ones (13/14g) because they are stronger and much more resistant to the odd de-chaining incident.

    Suggest you find a touring wheel builder and request a LX based wheel.
  • rubertoerubertoe Posts: 3,994
    LX hub hand built wheels can be had at Spa
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Another option is to replace the axle on the Tiagra hub for a 135mm unit, using the existing cones and locknuts but with two extra 2.5mm spacers. In some cases you don't even need a new axle, just spacers. the shop might even do it for you.
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    MichaelW wrote:
    Kona Smoke uses MTB axle spacing of 135mm so 130mm road hubs like Tiagra do not fit.

    There is no real alternative to Shimano LX in terms of price/performance. Shimano are cold forged, very strong, reliable and durable. Suggest you find a touring wheel builder and request a LX based wheel.

    Very good info MichaelW. :D Thanks for sharing you knowledge.

    I will search for an LX hub. Is Deore LX the same that LX?

    Shimano FH-M565 Rear Hub
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=86994
    NOTE this is very unexpensive and says LX.


    Just curious, what about the SLX models? aren't the SLX Hubs supposed to be a superior hub compared to XT? There si so many models of SLX hubs that is hard to know.

    Shimano SLX Front Disc Hub M629
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=40558
    NOTE: no info on axle spacing provided.

    Shimano SLX Rear Hub M665
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=28030
    NOTE: Axle Length - 146mm, is that the same that axle spacing?. This look to be an "old" model because its looks.

    Shimano SLX Rear Disc Hub M629
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=40549
    NOTE: this is 29 wheel specific, but 32 holes not 36 version.

    Thanks again for your info!

    Regards,
    S.-
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    rubertoe wrote:
    LX hub hand built wheels can be had at Spa

    Thanks for the link on SPA Cycles. Are those versions of Rigida Rims good for fat tyres?
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    supersonic wrote:
    Another option is to replace the axle on the Tiagra hub for a 135mm unit, using the existing cones and locknuts but with two extra 2.5mm spacers. In some cases you don't even need a new axle, just spacers. the shop might even do it for you.

    Good data Supersonic! Thanks for the info.
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    By the way, i wrote to Chain Reaction asking for advice on Custom Made Wheels and they reply this:

    " If you are looking an light but extremely reliable hub for long distance I would recommend the Hope Pro 3.  These hub are road specific hubs with sealed bearings and are very easy to service.

    Hope Pro 3 Rear Hub - Shimano/SRAM
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17385

    Hope Pro 3 Front Hub
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17383

    Unfortunately we are unable to provide spoke lengths until you have placed your order with us.  Once you have placed your preferred spokes in your basket you need to add the following information into the 'Additional Notes' section.Hub type and Rim type.

    We will then calculate to the correct length for you and have them dispatched in your order. 

    Thanks,"


    It is interesting but Hope Pro 3 models even they look great are a bit pricey and over my budget right now. Do you know that brand?
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I'd avoid Hope. They are not easy to service out in the field - unless you have a cartridge bearing puller. Shimano use loose ball bearings so are very easy to get replacements for. Also have tougher freehubs and hub shells, and the bearings are adjustable - unlike Hope.

    In the MTB world, LX was replaced by SLX, and lies under XT in the range. LX is now the trekking series, as mentioned earlier. Those LX wheels look very expensive to me.

    146mm is the rear axle length - this length is normally used on 135mm quick release hubs.

    Deore is the equivalent of Tiagra.
  • uzapucauzapuca Posts: 103
    supersonic wrote:
    I'd avoid Hope. They are not easy to service out in the field - unless you have a cartridge bearing puller. Shimano use loose ball bearings so are very easy to get replacements for. Also have tougher freehubs and hub shells, and the bearings are adjustable - unlike Hope.

    In the MTB world, LX was replaced by SLX, and lies under XT in the range. LX is now the trekking series, as mentioned earlier. Those LX wheels look very expensive to me.

    146mm is the rear axle length - this length is normally used on 135mm quick release hubs.

    Deore is the equivalent of Tiagra.

    Great info Supersonic. I am glad to know more about Hope hubs and to be sure they will not be a good choice for now.

    Good data on LX and wheels too.

    Thanks!
  • uzapuca wrote:
    supersonic wrote:
    I'd avoid Hope. They are not easy to service out in the field - unless you have a cartridge bearing puller. Shimano use loose ball bearings so are very easy to get replacements for. Also have tougher freehubs and hub shells, and the bearings are adjustable - unlike Hope.

    In the MTB world, LX was replaced by SLX, and lies under XT in the range. LX is now the trekking series, as mentioned earlier. Those LX wheels look very expensive to me.

    146mm is the rear axle length - this length is normally used on 135mm quick release hubs.

    Deore is the equivalent of Tiagra.

    Great info Supersonic. I am glad to know more about Hope hubs and to be sure they will not be a good choice for now.

    Good data on LX and wheels too.

    Thanks!

    If you have 135 mm dropouts, then go for MTB hubs, if Shimano then get the XT, it is worth spending a few more pennies over the basic Deore, which are frankly junk. You might have to get the disc version, as I don't think they do them disc-less anymore
    If you have road dropouts at 130 mm, then Shimano is excellent too, and I would go for 105 (55 pounds for the set) or even Ultegra if you find them on offer... I just bought a set at reduced price 80 pounds.
    Tiagra are not terrible, but considering you save 15 pounds over the 105, it is worth getting the more reliable product
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    XT have smaller bearings, and don't seem to have the load bearing capabilities of Deore. Deore, when serviced, lasts ages. Also a steel axle.

    The SLX would be better.
  • supersonic wrote:
    XT have smaller bearings, and don't seem to have the load bearing capabilities of Deore. Deore, when serviced, lasts ages. Also a steel axle.

    The SLX would be better.
    My experience with Deore is that they were pitted after one year and before that never smooth. All angular bearings are fine for someone who is smaller than an elephant, it is down to whether they have seals or not. Deore are not sealed. One can keep flooding then with tons of grease, but ultimately they are junk.
    As for the axle... Alloys axles have been around for decades and if sufficiently wide they are fine
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    How much experience do you have with XT though? They are not as robust as Deore. Deore are sealed, albeit not as well. I have sets nearly 10 years old, and the latest ones are fine too.

    Which model of Deore are you using that has no seals?
  • supersonic wrote:
    How much experience do you have with XT though? They are not as robust as Deore. Deore are sealed, albeit not as well. I have sets nearly 10 years old, and the latest ones are fine too.

    Which model of Deore are you using that has no seals?


    How robust do you need hem to be? We are not talking downhill here. I was on some generic Deore disc, they only had Deore printed on. Beside the seals, it was very difficult to get them to work well... They would either be too tight or slightly loose... I suspect the roundness of the bearings and the machining of he cones was somewhat vague. From new They felt terrible compared to the Novatec 711/12 I have now... And yes, these are cartridges and won't carry a cow, but do they need to? I have done 5000 miles on these, most with light panniers and they are virtually new, smooth as silk. The seals are superb and the machining tolerances are first class. There is a lot of aluminium and virtually no steel, but they are better and more durable than the junk I was on before. There is a reason Deore cost 20 pounds for the pair.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    There is some known issues with the newer XT, especially with heavier loads, such as the cones moving on the alu axle (despite being locked), which then tightens up and destroys the axle, bearings and hub innards, snaps the QR as well as the freehub jamming too and the bearings wearing quicker. Novatec are not XT, do not use cup and cone on this specific axle so they may not have these issues.

    Deore are more suspect to contaminants, but at before with care last a long time, are easier to get spares for, and can be fully rebuilt with parts from many other hubs if need be. For that reason and the OPs use I'd have them over XT that, when they fail, fail a lot more spectacularly and expensively. This is from a lot of experience and testing with both these named hubs, and various models of each.

    The XT 75x series are a different kettle of fish.
  • I suppose the more demanding one is in terms of mileage and the less he is in terms of performance, the more a simple product is appealing. However, although I have and have had excellent cone ball hubs in the past, which lasted 30 years and still going, I think the low end Shimano has very mediocre machining... They feel bad and they wear fast... Yes, replacements are available, but changing cones, balls and races ends up being not worth it... However, on the road they might make sense over more evolved systems, because they work, although badly, even whit random spares
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