Best of both worlds?!

concorde

What's the reason why they don't make a pedal that's as good as say a superstar nano flat on one side and as good as the best spd on the other?

They make pedals which have both capabilities but they don't excel in either function. Why can't they make one that does?

Probably an obvious answer, just wondering...

nicklouse

because you end up with the worst of both.

a heavy flat pedal that is never the right way up.

a heavy spd with crap ground clearance and is never the right way up.

concorde

Makes sense on the whole, just seems daft there's not a way round it.

Chunkers1980

Concorde wrote:

Makes sense on the whole, just seems daft there's not a way round it.

There is, a good pedal spanner. The best shoes for each don't work best with each other anyway too.

MountainMonster

What they all said, and I bet it would be ridiculously heavy as well.

nicklouse

Concorde wrote:

Makes sense on the whole, just seems daft there's not a way round it.

but why would you want one?

I used to love selling "dual" use pedals as i knew we would have another sale shortly.

concorde

I don't particularly, unless they truly were the best of both worlds, I'm happy with flats. Few of the boys I ride with use the double sided ones and really like them, clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff. I can see the drawbacks but they swear by them.

The Rookie

My Daughter has dual on her commuter, flats with Van's for dashing between lectures etc, SPD clipped in for heading out to the farm which is 6 miles away.

MountainMonster

Concorde wrote:

I don't particularly, unless they truly were the best of both worlds, I'm happy with flats. Few of the boys I ride with use the double sided ones and really like them, clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff. I can see the drawbacks but they swear by them.

Do they carry spare shoes with them or something? That is ridiculously unnecessary.

bennett_346

Concorde wrote:

clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff.

*sits back with popcorn*

bennett_346

cyd190468 wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Concorde wrote:

I don't particularly, unless they truly were the best of both worlds, I'm happy with flats. Few of the boys I ride with use the double sided ones and really like them, clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff. I can see the drawbacks but they swear by them.

Do they carry spare shoes with them or something? That is ridiculously unnecessary.

You can actually get regular looking shoes with the spd fitting in them. I have a pair of hiking boots that are just like any other pair of hiking boots except they have cleats in the soles. Shimano even make sandles so you can clip in while wearing socks and sandles.

Bet they're shit on flats.

cooldad

bennett_346 wrote:

cyd190468 wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Concorde wrote:

I don't particularly, unless they truly were the best of both worlds, I'm happy with flats. Few of the boys I ride with use the double sided ones and really like them, clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff. I can see the drawbacks but they swear by them.

Do they carry spare shoes with them or something? That is ridiculously unnecessary.

You can actually get regular looking shoes with the spd fitting in them. I have a pair of hiking boots that are just like any other pair of hiking boots except they have cleats in the soles. Shimano even make sandles so you can clip in while wearing socks and sandles.

Bet they're shoot on flats.

I would not take that bet.

MountainMonster

cyd190468 wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Concorde wrote:

I don't particularly, unless they truly were the best of both worlds, I'm happy with flats. Few of the boys I ride with use the double sided ones and really like them, clip in for uphill, flat part for the technical stuff. I can see the drawbacks but they swear by them.

Do they carry spare shoes with them or something? That is ridiculously unnecessary.

You can actually get regular looking shoes with the spd fitting in them. I have a pair of hiking boots that are just like any other pair of hiking boots except they have cleats in the soles. Shimano even make sandles so you can clip in while wearing socks and sandles.

Getting hiking shoes that allow you to put cleats in, and having a shoe designed for flat pedal and spd use are 2 different things. I would never want to ride on a flat pedal with any form of cleat hanging out the bottom of my shoes, regardless of whether there is a giant rubber sole there "to help". I bet their fine if you take the cleat off and use them as normal shoes on the pedal, but given cleat adjustment issues, I wouldn't want to have to take them off every time I want to go downhill.

concorde

They use shoes like this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=55370 on pedals which are double sided. None of them have tried a proper pair of falts shoes, five tens fro instance on their old grippy flat pedals. But they all seem to say grip is similar with this shoe on the flat side to what they're used to with flat pedals and normal trainers.

bluechair84

I think they do make a best of both worlds - it's an SPD with a large flat cage. This way, if you can't engage over a techincal section, you still have the flat enabling you to adjust your position and bail easily. It's dual sided so you never have to find the right side for the terrain. It's not going to be the perfect flat, or perfect cleat, but nothing that tries to straddle two criteria can ever fully satisfy both. As people have said though, to get the best out of such a pedal you'd need a very good shoe.

cooldad

bluechair84 wrote:

I think they do make a best of both worlds - it's an SPD with a large flat cage. This way, if you can't engage over a techincal section, you still have the flat enabling you to adjust your position and bail easily. It's dual sided so you never have to find the right side for the terrain. It's not going to be the perfect flat, or perfect cleat, but nothing that tries to straddle two criteria can ever fully satisfy both. As people have said though, to get the best out of such a pedal you'd need a very good shoe.

But that's not the best of both worlds, that's a compromise. You don't seem to understand the term.

Chunkers1980

And you seem to have missed the point that even when riding with normal SPDs and shoes with cleats you can still ride not clipped in. Having duels will just confuse you as you could be clipped in one side and not the other.

Northwind

Chunkers1980 wrote:

And you seem to have missed the point that even when riding with normal SPDs and shoes with cleats you can still ride not clipped in.

Well you can, in the same way as you can run along behind the bike and turn the pedals with your hands.

bluechair84

cooldad wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I think they do make a best of both worlds - it's an SPD with a large flat cage. This way, if you can't engage over a techincal section, you still have the flat enabling you to adjust your position and bail easily. It's dual sided so you never have to find the right side for the terrain. It's not going to be the perfect flat, or perfect cleat, but nothing that tries to straddle two criteria can ever fully satisfy both. As people have said though, to get the best out of such a pedal you'd need a very good shoe.

But that's not the best of both worlds, that's a compromise. You don't seem to understand the term.

I did qualify my opinion with the notion that there cannot be a best of both but the caged flat does a good job of what the OP was seeking. My original post should have had quotation marks around 'best of both' to suggest that fully. I forgot that there's pedants around here.

bennett_346

Every regular on this forum is obsessed with semantics and grammar.

Northwind

bennett_346 wrote:

Every regular on this forum is obsessed with semantics and grammar.

Now you ken fine well that when you makes a statement like dat, it ort to has an mistake in it's.

concorde

bluechair84 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I think they do make a best of both worlds - it's an SPD with a large flat cage. This way, if you can't engage over a techincal section, you still have the flat enabling you to adjust your position and bail easily. It's dual sided so you never have to find the right side for the terrain. It's not going to be the perfect flat, or perfect cleat, but nothing that tries to straddle two criteria can ever fully satisfy both. As people have said though, to get the best out of such a pedal you'd need a very good shoe.

But that's not the best of both worlds, that's a compromise. You don't seem to understand the term.

I did qualify my opinion with the notion that there cannot be a best of both but the caged flat does a good job of what the OP was seeking. My original post should have had quotation marks around 'best of both' to suggest that fully. I forgot that there's pedants around here.

I know what you're saying, that's what the lads I ride with use, that's what I was talking about. But they're not the best of both, the spd is not the best out there and the cage isn't as grippy as a Superstar nano for instance.

I was asking more why it can not be made better?! Surely what we have now can not be the best option for somebody that wants both. I find it hard to believe they cannon make a thinner one for a start, they look bulky as!

bluechair84

Concorde wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I think they do make a best of both worlds - it's an SPD with a large flat cage. This way, if you can't engage over a techincal section, you still have the flat enabling you to adjust your position and bail easily. It's dual sided so you never have to find the right side for the terrain. It's not going to be the perfect flat, or perfect cleat, but nothing that tries to straddle two criteria can ever fully satisfy both. As people have said though, to get the best out of such a pedal you'd need a very good shoe.

But that's not the best of both worlds, that's a compromise. You don't seem to understand the term.

I did qualify my opinion with the notion that there cannot be a best of both but the caged flat does a good job of what the OP was seeking. My original post should have had quotation marks around 'best of both' to suggest that fully. I forgot that there's pedants around here.

I know what you're saying, that's what the lads I ride with use, that's what I was talking about. But they're not the best of both, the spd is not the best out there and the cage isn't as grippy as a Superstar nano for instance.

I was asking more why it can not be made better?! Surely what we have now can not be the best option for somebody that wants both. I find it hard to believe they cannon make a thinner one for a start, they look bulky as!

Have a look at the Crank Brothers Mallet 3 - not very thick, very good at clearing because they use the Egg Beater, nice broad platform... I know you're saying why can't they be better, but does this not do everything your suggesting is in need of improvement to an acceptable degree?

concorde

Yes indeed, certainly looks like what I envisaged when I thought about the best of both. Not that heavy, good clearance and both types of pedal!

Any drawbacks, I can't see any?!

Cheers

bluechair84

Concorde wrote:

Yes indeed, certainly looks like what I envisaged when I thought about the best of both. Not that heavy, good clearance and both types of pedal!

Any drawbacks, I can't see any?!

Cheers

I'll leave Cooldad to answer that one. He understands better than I do

Northwind

Concorde wrote:

Any drawbacks, I can't see any?!

It's a Crank Bros item with moving parts, therefore, it'll explode on contact with oxygen.

Also, it's still nothing like as good as a flat pedal for flat pedal use. And nothing ever will be, because you can't have the clip high enough to engage a cleat into, without having that reduce the effectiveness of the flat part. And you can't have the flat part high/pronounced enough and spiky enough to work well, without making it hard to clip in.

cooldad

bluechair84 wrote:

Concorde wrote:

Yes indeed, certainly looks like what I envisaged when I thought about the best of both. Not that heavy, good clearance and both types of pedal!

Any drawbacks, I can't see any?!

Cheers

I'll leave Cooldad to answer that one. He understands better than I do

I left it up to my assistant, Northwind.

I, however, would just have used two words to describe the problem: Crank Brothers.

bennett_346

I had crank brothers pedals once. Left side snapped while i was riding DH and nearly took my leg off.

bluechair84

I think PinkBike did a look at the Mallet 3 and mentioned some previous issues like axles going. They seemed to suggest that the new Mallet had solved a lot of the old problems. If they review alright, I'd look into a pair as I really need a better cage around my SPD than the ones I have at the moment. I have no confidence re-engaging on technical sections and just being able to get some purchase on the pins would make a world of difference to me. I see what Northwind says about never having the right height at pin or cleat, but others said earlier, that comes down to the design of the shoe. The perfect dual pedal needs a purposefully designed shoe to work with it. I'd try the Mallet next year pending reviews.

Northwind

You know what though? Those flat things that come attached to new Shimano SPDs, with the reflectors on? They're rubbish, but maybe they could do something similiar that isn't. It'd be tall, and heavy, but it'd give you a genuine convertible pedal.

bluechair84

Northwind wrote:

You know what though? Those flat things that come attached to new Shimano SPDs, with the reflectors on? They're rubbish, but maybe they could do something similiar that isn't. It'd be tall, and heavy, but it'd give you a genuine convertible pedal.

Though being convertible would be no use to you on the trail when your sphincter suddenly goes a bit loose and you need a flat. Might be useful at the carpark if you're not sure what pedal you want to go out with... but I take flats and SPDs with me most journeys so I have the option before setting off. Not a bad idea though