Dangers of riding with the sun in your eyes..

steve6690

I just felt I should post a thread about a serious road collision I attended yesterday. I apologise in advance to those who I'm teaching to suck eggs. For obvious reasons I won't say exactly where this occurred.
The location was a narrow country lane, just wide enough for two cars to pass, and the road was bounded by high hedges with no footpath or discernible verge. The section of road was dead straight for about half a mile and quite steeply uphill. The cyclist was travelling up the hill and was probably 2/3 rds of the way up when he was struck from behind by a car . He was thrown onto the windscreen with considerable force, caving it in. Despite wearing a helmet he sustained major head injuries which were life threatening.
The driver never even saw him. They were heading uphill directly into the sun. We arrived a short while later and were ourselves blinded. The road surface was damp too which made it act like a giant mirror reflecting the sunlight.
I wonder how many cyclists will go out today and ride their regular route without considering the lower winter sun and the effect it has on drivers' sight. Please bear in mind that if you're riding into the sun and can't see where you're going without dark glasses, then the drivers approaching from behind can't see where they're going either. And you can be wearing the most hi-viz kit in the world - you will still be invisible. And then bear in mind that not everyone has the good sense to slow down.
The ongoing investigation has gone to a different police force so I won't get any further information.
Another point : the motorist had no first aid training and wasn't carrying a phone. He had to leave the cyclist there on the ground while he drove off to find help. Thankfully he found someone fairly close by, but that was just sheer luck.
Be careful out there...

Paul 8v

Ouch, hope the cyclist is alright. Never really thought about that before but certainly worth remembering now. I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

steve6690

Paul 8v wrote:

Ouch, hope the cyclist is alright. Never really thought about that before but certainly worth remembering now. I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

paramedics weren't hopeful unfortunately. All the cyclist could have done really was ride at a different time or take a different route.

de_sisti

Paul 8v wrote:

I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

Victim blaming. That's not on.

Paul 8v wrote:

The driver never even saw him.

Perhaps if the driver slowed down and drove according to the conditions.

steve6690

De Sisti wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

Victim blaming. That's not on.

Paul 8v wrote:

The driver never even saw him.

Perhaps if the driver slowed down and drove according to the conditions.

It's not about blame. That comes too late to save anyone. It's about recognising the risk and trying to minimise it. Do what you can to avoid being in the situation in the first place. Being completely blameless will be little comfort to your widow.

Paul 8v

De Sisti wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

Victim blaming. That's not on.

Paul 8v wrote:

The driver never even saw him.

Perhaps if the driver slowed down and drove according to the conditions.

I wasn't blaming anyone you tool, I meant if you found yourself in this situation how could you get out of it, was there anything you could do to ride defensively, in this case there was nothing he could have done unfortunately. Don'ttry and start an argument with someone over nothing. I didn't even say the second thing!

de_sisti

Listen you tool! if that's what you meant, why didn't you say so. If you're going to start name-calling,
then then I'll do the same.

Paul 8v

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? ;-) I was trying to work out what you would do if you ended up in the same situation, on a normal country road I suppose you could try and pull over to a verge or something but you'dnot know about it until it was too late any way if a car was travelling at a normal country road speed. Very sad

dodgy

De Sisti wrote:

Listen you tool! if that's what you meant, why didn't you say so. If you're going to start name-calling,
then then I'll do the same.

I thought it was perfectly clear what Paul 8v meant, but you chose to have a go.

In answer to Paul 8v, I do take into account the sun's position and intensity in winter. Just as most cyclists take note of wind direction and temperature, I really think we should be thinking more about winter sun.

I try to plan my routes to avoid riding into the sun for long periods (the A540 around these parts is a good example, it heads in a NNW / SSE direction). I also will set off a bit later, yesterday for instance, I was ready to go at 9am, but left it until after 10 as the sun was slightly higher, but more importantly in a direction that I wouldn't have to ride into.

Yes ultimately motorises in a perfect world will stop as soon as they have zero visibility, but they don't, do they?

RIP Mel Vasey, who fell victim to this problem some years back.

Paul 8v

It's something I'd never even thought about before I read this, good to make people aware of it to hopefully help avoid that situation. I'm much more worried about getting hit by a car from behind, at least from the front you have time to react and make some sort of evasive maneuver, from the back there'slittle warning

dynamicbrick

Paul 8v wrote:

De Sisti wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

I wonder what the cyclist could have done to avoid it?

Victim blaming. That's not on.

Paul 8v wrote:

The driver never even saw him.

Perhaps if the driver slowed down and drove according to the conditions.

I wasn't blaming anyone you tool, I meant if you found yourself in this situation how could you get out of it, was there anything you could do to ride defensively, in this case there was nothing he could have done unfortunately.

It's that 'it's his fault I had a right to be there' thought process which we saw on the silly BBC documentary and countless youtube helmet-cam warriors.

The motorist had a duty to drive according to conditions (drive as fast as you can see), but similarly as a cyclist you arguably have a duty (not least to yourself) to be aware of your visibility to other road users.

Bozman

Sh*t happens, there are some things that out of your control, you're never going to prevent things like that happening.

chrisaonabike

dynamicbrick wrote:

The motorist had a duty to drive according to conditions (drive as fast as you can see), but similarly as a cyclist you arguably have a duty (not least to yourself) to be aware of your visibility to other road users.

I think there are three different sorts of 'duty' implied here.

- The duty of the motorist to not drive faster than he can see to stop. In this sad case, it's not so much that the cyclist was invisible, it's that *everything* was invisible. Failure to drive according to the conditions is nothing short of reckless - the driver is totally culpable IMO.

- The duty of the cyclist to preserve his own life and limb. That's not so much duty (except towards dependents, I suppose), as self-preservation - generally reckoned to be a good idea. We wouldn't not *drive* along a road just in case some tw4t is going to rear-end us - but choosing not to cycle along it might be prudent given the same risk, since the outcome will be so much worse.

Both of these are different from the situation we read about the other day where the van driver swerved into an oncoming, since he couldn't see the dark-clothed cyclist with no lights against the nighttime background until too late. In this case, the cyclist is at least partially culpable (we don't whether the van was going too fast for the conditions), and failed in his duty to make himself as visible as possible.

A due-care (at least) conviction must surely be pretty much a given in the OP's case, surely.

dodgy

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

A due-care (at least) conviction must surely be pretty much a given in the OP's case, surely.

You'd think, but unfortunately "not being able to see due to blinded by low sun" remains one of the most effective counter arguments to get drivers off a charge against injuring cyclists. It's used all the time.

I know, you know that if you can't see *anything* then you should slow to a stop until you can, but in the real world that doesn't happen. When's the last time you saw a driver pulling over to the side of the road when heading into a blinding winter sun? What they actually do is grip the wheel a bit tighter, perhaps hover over the brake and just hope for the best.

elderone

Well I can coment on this from personal experiance.About 6 weeks ago i was run down by a car from behind in this same situation.The driver said he didnt see me as the sun was in his eyes and just drove into the back of me.Luckily my injuries weren,t to bad(bad enough mind) and bike was wrecked.
Prior to this I,d never given it a thought,but now realise how deadly it is.

Paul 8v

dodgy wrote:

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

A due-care (at least) conviction must surely be pretty much a given in the OP's case, surely.

You'd think, but unfortunately "not being able to see due to blinded by low sun" remains one of the most effective counter arguments to get drivers off a charge against injuring cyclists. It's used all the time.

I know, you know that if you can't see *anything* then you should slow to a stop until you can, but in the real world that doesn't happen. When's the last time you saw a driver pulling over to the side of the road when heading into a blinding winter sun? What they actually do is grip the wheel a bit tighter, perhaps hover over the brake and just hope for the best.

I suppose the danger of this is getting hit up the back by another car (I know all about idiot drivers rear ending people, happened to me twice now!), I find if you pull the sunvisor down and sit up in the seat you can usually get the sun out of your eyes, still need to be very cautious though.

iPete

Certainly a risk not many people take into account. I'm not sure how effective it is but I tend to use a powerful rear light all year round.

Buckie2k5

iPete wrote:

Certainly a risk not many people take into account. I'm not sure how effective it is but I tend to use a powerful rear light all year round.

was just thinking that myself. it could have been enough for the driver to see him at the last minute.

de_sisti

iPete wrote:

Certainly a risk not many people take into account. I'm not sure how effective it is but I tend to use a powerful rear light all year round.

The Dinotte 400L. This is what I use, for safety.

Briggo

Loving all the self proclaimed judge jury and executioners here, you're basing the verdicts off one account with a handful of information.

Secondly, if you're blinded by winter sun you are ment to drive as to the conditions allow so that you can stop as far as you can see, what if you can't see at all are you to stop completely and remain stationary until the sun moves?

Even if you hit the cyclist at 10mph you could still do life threatening damage depending on how you hit them.

Unfortunately it's one of those scenarios you can't do much about.

Paul 8v

De Sisti wrote:

iPete wrote:

Certainly a risk not many people take into account. I'm not sure how effective it is but I tend to use a powerful rear light all year round.

The Dinotte 400L. This is what I use, for safety.

No excuse for not seeing that then!

whitebirdyman

Being a bit risk averse, I tend to avoid this and other situations in which I think I might be in danger because conditions are such that a motorist might struggle even if paying attention.

On Nov 16th in a thread about riding at night I posted "I think that rather than the dark, one of the biggest hazards in winter is the low sun on a clear day which causes glare and gets in drivers eyes just before the sun goes down. Maybe I was being a little over-cautious, but I cut a ride short last week as I realised I could not see into the sun, so probably drivers behind might struggle to see me - lights and reflectors would not help much in that situation."

markos1963

So basically what we are saying here is cyclists are effectively banned from riding in a southerly direction at this time of the year? Not good for me as I live on the N. Norfolk coast.

dodgy

markos1963 wrote:

So basically what we are saying here is cyclists are effectively banned from riding in a southerly direction at this time of the year? Not good for me as I live on the N. Norfolk coast.

Nope, that's not what we're saying, well at least it's not what I'm saying (hint, it's not always bright sunshine and the sun moves from east, to south to west).

By the way, you can ride East or West I think , I live near the North Wirral coast, I have to ride south at the start and north at the end of every single ride, no getting around it! But some roads are more hazardous than others, local knowledge will tell you which.

I'm glad the thread has been brought up, looks like I was one of the few people taking it (the winter sun) into account when planning a ride.

neeb

I never feel safe riding into low sun on a fast road, it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up every time I hear a car coming up behind..

This is a classic case of not-much-use-being-in-the-right-once-you-are-dead... There's no doubt that it should be the responsibility of drivers to always drive in such a way that this can't happen. If you can't see, you should assume that there could be a cyclist or pedestrian right in front of you at any time and drive appropriately. Half of it is just being aware of what could happen and being extremely cautious. However, people being the way that they are, often this is not going to happen, so really you are taking your life in your hands riding in these situations. It is possible to more or less avoid them by knowing the times that these conditions are likely to occur on stretches of road you are familiar with, although in midwinter these times are much longer due to the lower angle of the sun.

This is something which would really benefit from a hard-hitting public information TV campaign aimed at drivers, IMO. It's one of these risks that is greatly reduced just by people being aware of it. If every time someone was driving into low sun they were reminded of an image of a car hitting a cyclist, it would go a long way towards reducing the incidence of such events.

Paul 8v

I think with the Wiggo effect there's a lot more cyclists out on the road, some public information films in the style of the think bike motorbike ones probably wouldn't go a miss. One thing I'venoticed is people won't wait behind cyclists for a safe opportunity to overtake any more, they'll just go no matter what'scoming. This never used to happen so much when I first started driving.

charlie_potatoes

steve6690 wrote:

Sobering words

Thanks for posting steve6690

diy

There is a bit you can do. Bright flashy tail lights can make a difference. Not much but it may have been enough. I was riding on Saturday and spotted a guy in front totally camouflaged by the light. A fairly bright led would have helped me see him.

oldhairylegs

A few of us were out on a ride today when we entered into one of these danger zones. Bright low sun and a damp road acting like a mirror and just for a few seconds it was impossible to see anything, let alone where the road went - even with shades on.

Fortunately, the car that was behind us waited until we were back in the clear before passing us.

Certainly makes you think.

Fingers crossed for the poor guy who wasn't so lucky.

DrKJM

Briggo wrote:

Loving all the self proclaimed judge jury and executioners here, you're basing the verdicts off one account with a handful of information.

Secondly, if you're blinded by winter sun you are ment to drive as to the conditions allow so that you can stop as far as you can see, what if you can't see at all are you to stop completely and remain stationary until the sun moves?

Even if you hit the cyclist at 10mph you could still do life threatening damage depending on how you hit them.

Unfortunately it's one of those scenarios you can't do much about.

There are seldom conditions where you can see nothing. And driving at 10mph is NOT going to kill someone unless you deliberately rev the engine and drive over the body. I know in the real world you can lose visibility suddenly and there is a brief period where there is nothing you can do. Except of course apply your brake and reduce the risk of killing someone.

Frank the tank

Personally I am most wary when riding with the sun low in the sky. In such conditions I've been totally blinded by the sun both direct sunlight and reflected off the road. If I am struggling to see traffic in such conditions so are motorists.

Because of this I endevour to plan my ride times so as to try and avoid the low sun. Unfortunately for some (commuters for example) this cannot be avoided.