07/12/12 Rider down, Jamaica Rd/Tanner St/Tooley St junction

dhope

Around 8.45 this morning, a lady on a black Scott hybrid being tended to by paramedics on the nasty junction that joins Jamaica, Tanner and Tooley St. The bike was destroyed and the lady unconscious in a neck brace.
Huge lorry stopped on the turn, the sort that we hear horror stories about. It didn't look good.
No clue what caused it, thoughts with the rider.

il_principe

dhope wrote:

Around 8.45 this morning, a lady on a black Scott hybrid being tended to by paramedics on the nasty junction that joins Jamaica, Tanner and Tooley St. The bike was destroyed and the lady unconscious in a neck brace.
Huge lorry stopped on the turn, the sort that we hear horror stories about. It didn't look good.
No clue what caused it, thoughts with the rider.

I used to work around there. Lorries driven by lunatics ever since the Shard began. Reminiscent of the KCL student was was killed there a while back.

Hope she's ok.

bigmat

Passed at around 9.15, road still closed but not much sign of what was happening other than a few police there. Fingers crossed.

condor_rider

Hope she's OK - passed the spot at around 08.30, and I think the accident must only have happened minutes earlier at that point as the first 999 calls were just being made....she was lying on the floor but conscious at that point, so here's hoping she was out cold with shock or something recoverable by the time you passed a few minutes later....

This is a notorious junction - one, if not two, cyclists have been killed at exactly this spot in the last few years. I go through the junction every day, and it's really easy to see how accidents can happen - you need to seriously take the lane off the lights to make sure the vehicle behind you doesn't assume you are going half left rather than straight on into the cycle/bus lane up Tooley St - they really need to sort this junction out as it is obviously catching people out.

dhope

condor_rider wrote:

Hope she's OK - passed the spot at around 08.30, and I think the accident must only have happened minutes earlier at that point as the first 999 calls were just being made....she was lying on the floor but conscious at that point, so here's hoping she was out cold with shock or something recoverable by the time you passed a few minutes later....

This is a notorious junction - one, if not two, cyclists have been killed at exactly this spot in the last few years. I go through the junction every day, and it's really easy to see how accidents can happen - you need to seriously take the lane off the lights to make sure the vehicle behind you doesn't assume you are going half left rather than straight on into the cycle/bus lane up Tooley St - they really need to sort this junction out as it is obviously catching people out.

Very good to hear that she was conscious when you passed earlier.

It's a horrible junction what with the bizarre road layout tempting cyclists to split from the traffic on the left side only to rejoin again moments later and then have to go straight on/right when all other traffic is coming from the right and bearing left.

Pufftmw

There go I but for the grace of god...

That junction is pants. Nervous people will come up the buslane and then have to cross to the right through the red light to make the turn into Tooley. I've seen them keep left until the last moment before turning right and there is little/no indication to the general driving public that cyclists will be crossing in front of them and not going round to the left like they are forced to do.

Hope she's OK.

DonDaddyD

My thoughts are with her and her family.

Paul E

condor_rider wrote:

This is a notorious junction - one, if not two, cyclists have been killed at exactly this spot in the last few years. I go through the junction every day, and it's really easy to see how accidents can happen - you need to seriously take the lane off the lights to make sure the vehicle behind you doesn't assume you are going half left rather than straight on into the cycle/bus lane up Tooley St - they really need to sort this junction out as it is obviously catching people out.

You do have to be quite forceful going through there and vehicles coming from the direction of tower bridge and turning right tend to start easing out if they think you are going left and not right onto tooley street.

I hope she is alright.

TheGutterPress

Went past this earlier, shocking to see, and I sincerely hope the lady is ok. Worryingly, according to traffic reports the road was still closed at 11am for "accident investigation", I guess this highlights the seriousness of the situation. It is a terrible junction, traffic in right hand lane has to go left, and most cyclists in left hand (bus) lane want to go right up Tooley Street - add in some traffic lights to bring it all together, and some large lorries (the lorry involved this morning was a frankly huge articulated Boots lorry - do they need to bring these into C London??) and you have a recipe for disaster. This is the exact same spot the KCL student was killed at last year.

spencer_uk

I went past at approx 08:40 and the ambulances were there. She was moving but didn't look too great. That junction is terrible. I see a lot of near misses there and stupid behaviour.

I hope she is ok - London SE1 site is saying she is not thought to be life-threatening....

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/6 ... Twitter%29

bails87

not thought to be life-threatening....

Relatively good then. and they didn't use that shiver inducing phrase 'life changing injuries'.

dhope

The junction is due to be remodelled as part of Cycle Superhighway CS4 which will link Woolwich with London Bridge. In July Transport for London listed the intersection on its table of the top 100 junctions to be assessed for cycle safety improvements.

Thank goodness for that, the junction desperately needs sorting out.

Gaz1165

I work with the guy who was driving the truck at the time of the accident.
He took the junction in the correct position and the lady on the bike tried to undertake him.
In a truck that big,once you start going around a bend like there. U have blind spots.
A witness at the sceen said there was nothing he could have done.
The lady ended up with atleast one broke leg poss both.
The driver is now suffering from shock.
Everyone says they hope the lady is ok. But forgets about the driver who has to live with the fact he could have killed some one. I hope both end up alright

PBo

This does raise a point that I've never thought of...I do always tend to see bad junctions from the cyclist pov but like many on here, I'm a driver too. Never really thought how it would affect me if I hit someone because poor road layout increased chances of mistakes/accidents. It's probably the nearest many of us would ever come to killing another human.

Sobering, and I do have sympathy for driver too in these sorts of accidents. Thoughts with the cyclist though obviously...

DonDaddyD

Gaz, I think people have the tendency to think of and comment on the person of who is most injured first. That doesn't mean that we have blamed the driver or aren't sympathetic about his position.

When being informed of a collision between vehicle it'd be poor taste to say "oh that poor driver" and not consider the person who could easily lose their life, no?

Paul E

I know who will recover from the incident first.

veronese68

Paul E wrote:

I know who will recover from the incident first.

Really? I don't. Emotional trauma can take a hell of a long time to get over. I'm not implying the cyclist won't also be shocked about the incident.
You'd think someone would get over a prank call fairly quickly too. We know nothing about the emotional state of either of them.
My sympathy to both parties. Let's hope the junction is improved quickly to make this kind of thing less likely.

mybreakfastconsisted

Gaz1165 wrote:

I work with the guy who was driving the truck at the time of the accident.
He took the junction in the correct position and the lady on the bike tried to undertake him.
In a truck that big,once you start going around a bend like there. U have blind spots.
A witness at the sceen said there was nothing he could have done.
The lady ended up with atleast one broke leg poss both.
The driver is now suffering from shock.
Everyone says they hope the lady is ok. But forgets about the driver who has to live with the fact he could have killed some one. I hope both end up alright

This post, based on hearsay, is pure speculation and could adversely effect the investigation.

Paul E

Veronese68 wrote:

Paul E wrote:

I know who will recover from the incident first.

Really? I don't. Emotional trauma can take a hell of a long time to get over. I'm not implying the cyclist won't also be shocked about the incident.
You'd think someone would get over a prank call fairly quickly too. We know nothing about the emotional state of either of them.
My sympathy to both parties. Let's hope the junction is improved quickly to make this kind of thing less likely.

I think she will have just as much if not more emotional trauma from being dragged under the wheels of a big vehicle rather than sitting in the cab.

Yes he will be shocked I am not disputing that but if you drive a large vehicle down inner city roads with vunerable road users about you then this thing might happen.

DrLex

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

This post, based on hearsay...

Yes, and therefore can be weighed accordingly.

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

[...] is pure speculation [...]

No; it's hearsay and opinion. Much like many posts on these fora.

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

[...]and could adversely effect the investigation.

Yes, should say, a ten year old child, conduct such and actively ignore the evidence from the parties concerned and all witnesses.

As Veronese68 has it; sympathies to both parties. Let's hope that this is a junction that TfL will improve for the safety of all road users.

PBo

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Gaz1165 wrote:

I work with the guy who was driving the truck at the time of the accident.
He took the junction in the correct position and the lady on the bike tried to undertake him.
In a truck that big,once you start going around a bend like there. U have blind spots.
A witness at the sceen said there was nothing he could have done.
The lady ended up with atleast one broke leg poss both.
The driver is now suffering from shock.
Everyone says they hope the lady is ok. But forgets about the driver who has to live with the fact he could have killed some one. I hope both end up alright

This post, based on hearsay, is pure speculation and could adversely effect the investigation.

hmmmm, "hearsay" is not pure speculation. And whilst one has to weigh the bias of the drivers side of the story, it came from someone involved, so is not hearsay or speculation.

Please, in gods name, though, explain how a comment on bike radar could adversely effect the investigation? utter bull. it must be at least 2 years since you last really annoyed me, why did you have to go and spoil it?

mybreakfastconsisted

Beware of people claiming special knowledge:

http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.co.uk ... river.html

People are sometimes quick to blame the victim, let's at least have the investigation first.

meanredspider

*grammar pedand alert*

Effect the investigation = carry out the investigation

Affect the investigation = change the investigation in some way

I think you both mean Affect.

ef·fect
/iˈfekt/
Noun
A change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.
Verb
Cause (something) to happen; bring about.
Synonyms
noun. result - outcome - consequence - influence - impression
verb. execute - perform - carry out - accomplish - achieve

af·fect
/əˈfekt/
Verb
Have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".
Pretend to have or feel (something): "as usual I affected a supreme unconcern".
Noun
Emotion or desire, esp. as influencing behavior or action.
Synonyms
verb. touch - influence - pretend
noun. emotion - affection

PBo

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Beware of people claiming special knowledge:

http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.co.uk ... river.html

People are sometimes quick to blame the victim, let's at least have the investigation first.

You have no logical arguing skills whatsoever.

I read that link. How does it factor into the previous comments you/I made. It wasn't hearsay or speculation. It may well have been a blatant lie, but that's different. Anyway, no one on this thread blamed the victim.

You still haven't explained how our thread could affect the investigation....

PBo

meanredspider wrote:

*grammar pedand alert*

.......pedant fail!

My question is correct whether one uses affect or effect....

How can a thread on bike radar change the investigation in some way?

How can a thread on bike radar carry out the investigation?

Both show that mbc is talking crap again.


(Ok I admit it, I didn't spot the use of effect instead of affect and just straight copied mbc's phrase... :oops: )

meanredspider

PBo wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

*grammar pedand alert*

.......pedant fail!

My question is correct whether one uses affect or effect....

LMAO - stabbing away at my iPad keyboard, I'd cocked up grammar twice and didn't notice pedant spelled incorrectly! :oops:

ETA - and the iPad also seems happy with the word "pedand" :roll:

veronese68

I must improve my pedantry. I keep reading what I expect to be there and miss all of the errors.