Best AM brakeset for £250

thecremeegg

Looking at the 2012 Carbon X0 brakes as a mate has them and the power is fantastic, but also looked at the Codes. I'm not too familiar with other brands so should I be looking at the Shimanos instead?
I should add I don't care about weight or anything fancy, just decent power and reliability.

supersonic

Shimano XT

The Rookie

Ride something with XT (or SLX or even Deore) and you'd never get anything from Avid......they brake just fine, but the feel and progression and lack of effort on XT is in a different league, I compared the 2 back to back on a demo day and it really hit home.

For more power than XT get Saint or Zee.

lawman

Xt all the way, massive power, easily controllable and so far other than the odd squeal they've been very reliable, both my sets have been spot on. They can be had alot cheaper than avid too. Given how good the prices are on some of the german sites such as rose bikes an how well they perform, I really see no reason at all to pick any other brand atm

thecremeegg

Are the XT decent enough for the odd bit of Downhill style trail? I'm just conscious that I don't want to buy something that I'm going to be annoyed about when I try and use them for some serious stopping. Are the last model saints any good?

The Rookie

Saints are great, and you could buy XT and just swap on a Saint front caliper if you want.

If you're worried about heat build on long decents get ice-tech discs and pads.

lostboysaint

As has already been said, Shimano take some beating. XT are now four-pot so have enough for "the odd bit of downhilling".

white91

SLX?

thecremeegg

Looks like it's the XT I'll go for then. Are the ones for sale on chain reaction the latest model, or are they due for replacement iminently do you know?

peter413

lostboysaint wrote:

As has already been said, Shimano take some beating. XT are now four-pot so have enough for "the odd bit of downhilling".

No they aren't, only Saint and Zee are 4 pot. They still have enough power for downhilling though, a lot of people use them on their DH bikes.

I'm a big fan of the new Saint's and the old Saint's actually. The new Saint's being lighter and IMO better modulated and have more power. Some people prefer the older lever though which can mean they find them more powerful and better modulated, I personally prefer the new ones better though.

lostboysaint

Busted, my knowledge being slightly out of date. Obviously I'm thinking slightly older XT. Sorry

lawman

lostboysaint wrote:

Busted, my knowledge being slightly out of date. Obviously I'm thinking slightly older XT. Sorry

Xt hasn't been four pot for donkeys years!

For DH my mate uses xt's on his Lapierre DH720 and raves about them, 200mm icetech rotors and pads, honestly unless you are seriously needing to slow down some personal heft or stupid speed, xt's will be fine.

Ghostt

Hope M4 up front, X2 on the rear. Controversial!
I'm not a huge fan of Shimano's lever feel, all the ones I've used have this annoying click right at the start of the stroke that I hate. Hope levers feel much nicer, great modulation, plus the 4-pot is super powerful without being on/off like Saints.

lawman

Ghostt wrote:

Hope M4 up front, X2 on the rear. Controversial!
I'm not a huge fan of Shimano's lever feel, all the ones I've used have this annoying click right at the start of the stroke that I hate. Hope levers feel much nicer, great modulation, plus the 4-pot is super powerful without being on/off like Saints.

Controversial indeed! I replaced my tech x2's with xt's and the difference is night and day, the modulation is comparable, but for out and out power the xt's win hands. M4's are heavy and underpowered in my experience too. I personally much prefer the lever shape of the new shimano brakes too. Add in the face you can get a set of xt's for the price of a single hope brake and you can be as patriotic as you like, but there is no way that hope brakes justify the price compared to shimano.

The Rookie

The bikeradar review dyno tests tell you why no-one with any sense would buy Hope, the XTs out power M4s, X2s are nowhere and Saint are off the scale compared to Hope.....

bennett_346

Interesting to see in the BR dyno tests the Elixir 3s are only 5% less powerful than saints, and 7% less powerful than XTs (and lighter!).

Also interesting is that the Hope Tech Evo V2 came out even more powerful than the XTs (although is heavier and costs more). Even the Race Evo M4 and X2 Race Evo were more powerful than XT.

I'm not a hope fan by any stretch of the imagination but this did surprise me.

mcnultycop

I'm a big unit and my Magura MT2s that came on my Canyon are superb. I don't feel like I need any more stopping power. I can't compare them to XTs as I've never used them, but they are notably more powerful than my Deores I've just put on the hardtail, with the same sized rotor (well, up front, anyway). They feel great too, and are about £75 from Biketart.

cooldad

Which Deores? The new ones are phenomenal.

mcnultycop

cooldad wrote:

Which Deores? The new ones are phenomenal.

New ones. M596 from Merlin. They are superb, the Maguras just feel better, to me.

The Rookie

bennett_346 wrote:

Interesting to see in the BR dyno tests the Elixir 3s are only 5% less powerful than saints, and 7% less powerful than XTs (and lighter!).

Also interesting is that the Hope Tech Evo V2 came out even more powerful than the XTs (although is heavier and costs more). Even the Race Evo M4 and X2 Race Evo were more powerful than XT.

Not sure which plots your looking at!
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466 is from the latest group test - there are no Elixir 3's!

cooldad

mcnultycop wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Which Deores? The new ones are phenomenal.

New ones. M596 from Merlin. They are superb, the Maguras just feel better, to me.

Must be - just got some of the Deores to replace some older XT's on the youngsters Spesh Enduro and he reckons they are in a different class.
As someone who grew up with caliper brakes, and got excited replacing side pull with centre pull, pretty much anything feels ok to me..

bennett_346

The Beginner wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Interesting to see in the BR dyno tests the Elixir 3s are only 5% less powerful than saints, and 7% less powerful than XTs (and lighter!).

Also interesting is that the Hope Tech Evo V2 came out even more powerful than the XTs (although is heavier and costs more). Even the Race Evo M4 and X2 Race Evo were more powerful than XT.

Not sure which plots your looking at!
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466 is from the latest group test - there are no Elixir 3's!

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/fitness/ar ... kes-24345/

Note the dates of the articles. Mine is 2012 and includes new XT whereas yours is 2010.

Ghostt

lawman wrote:

but for out and out power the xt's win hands. M4's are heavy and underpowered in my experience too. Add in the face you can get a set of xt's for the price of a single hope brake and you can be as patriotic as you like, but there is no way that hope brakes justify the price compared to shimano.

3 things:
1. According to this the M4s are more powerful than XTs, even Saints. 4th most powerful on test. http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/fitness/ar ... kes-24345/
2. Ok, they're not the cheapest, but I got an M4 and an X2, both latest models, with braided cables for £200, which isn't bad imo.
3. Why is it, on this forum especially, that as soon as Hope are mentioned, people bring up the patriotic/made in England argument? For all you know, I'm not English, plus the Hopes have a big following in the States (have a search on MTBR)

I would be interested to know which X2s you had as well (year/model). Hope brakes haven't been great in the past, the latest EVO/Tech models are much, much better

lawman

Ghostt wrote:

lawman wrote:

but for out and out power the xt's win hands. M4's are heavy and underpowered in my experience too. Add in the face you can get a set of xt's for the price of a single hope brake and you can be as patriotic as you like, but there is no way that hope brakes justify the price compared to shimano.

3 things:
1. According to this the M4s are more powerful than XTs, even Saints. 4th most powerful on test. http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/fitness/ar ... kes-24345/
2. Ok, they're not the cheapest, but I got an M4 and an X2, both latest models, with braided cables for £200, which isn't bad imo.
3. Why is it, on this forum especially, that as soon as Hope are mentioned, people bring up the patriotic/made in England argument? For all you know, I'm not English, plus the Hopes have a big following in the States (have a search on MTBR)

I would be interested to know which X2s you had as well (year/model). Hope brakes haven't been great in the past, the latest EVO/Tech models are much, much better

1) it's widely agreed by a lot of people that ignoring the dyno tests and focusing on actually riding them that hopes are underpowered compared to others. I can tell you right now that I don't think those dyno tests are entirely accurate, as having ridden saints there is no way they are less powerful than both my sets of xts. Also both sets feel much more powerful than my 2011 x2's by some margin. The hopes were good but I felt they lacked power. With identically size rotors te xts are more powerful

2) hope brakes look good but when I sold both my sets of hope brakes, my x2's and my old 2007 minis I used the money from those and bought my 2 sets of xts, one set including ice tech rotors and actually made 90 quid. A set of xts can be had with ice tech rotors for less than £200, so for me an in my experience getting a better performing brake for less money that looks just as good and is just as reliable is a good deal.

3) why is it people with hope products get all defensive over others saying "x" is a superior product? In my personal experience I have found the above points I made and that IMO the xts are a better brake. As I said my x2's were a very recent model an whilst a good brake, and in the black and lime green looked great, I've definitely decided the xts outperform them in every area

mrmonkfinger

lawman wrote:

I can tell you right now that I don't think those dyno tests are entirely accurate

+spuds

Those dyno test appear to show avid codes being less powerful than a juicy, and also that the code is apparently 1.5x more effective in the wet than the dry

I have codes and that result makes less than no sense, so I am "somewhat" suspicious of the dyno graphs.