Who's to blame? Hitting ped on cycle path.

unixnerd

So on tonight's BBC documentary near the end it showed two women walking along with their backs to a cyclist. One suddenly moves into the cyclists path and he hits her. I'm almost certain that's a signed dual use path in Aberdeen.

Do pedestrians have any different responsibilities on a signed cycle path compared to a normal pavement (where there shouldn't be any cyclists)? In other words, who's to blame in law?

big_p

it was 100% the cyclists fault, he should have announced his presence.

jds_1981

Think that clip has been discussed a few times in a few places before. Cyclist was going too fast.

At the same time - what was the pedestrian doing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGO3bt6YPKo
It's like walking in London, other people just stop or change direction randomly which can get close even if you're just walking past them at a reasonable pace.

crossborderreiver

There isn't anything to stop people walking on cycle paths. I'm sure if the cyclist had approached the pedestrians from the front the lady would have seen the bike coming and wouldn't have moved into the path of the bike. The pedestrian clearly didn't hear the cyclist approaching from behind. On seeing pedestrians ahead, the cyclist should have been prepared for the possibility that a pedestrian could stray into his (I assume) path. The cyclist could have called out to make the pedestrians aware of his presence. The cyclist should also have slowed down and should have waited for acknowledgement of his presence by the pedestrian before passing.
At the end of the day it isn't really a matter of law, just good (or in the case of that cyclist, bad) manners.

3b4bikes

I agree the cyclist bears the lions share of responsibility, but don't think its accurate to say the cyclist was 100% at fault. The pedestrian was on a signed, shared-use path and wandered aimlessly into the bikes path. If she had stepped out into the road like that and been hit by a car you would hardly blame the driver.

Having said all that, the cyclist was going too fast and was aware of the pedestrians. He should have realised they might not be aware of him and could easily do something erratic or stupid. This is precisely the reason I avoid using these kind of paths.

Mikey41

Cyclists fault 100%. Approaching pedestrians from behind too fast, giving no warning that he was there. Pedestrians are unpredictable sometimes, slow the hell down when around them.

3b4bikes

I agree that the cyclist was at fault. All I am saying is that it oversimplifies to say its 100% his fault. Just as the cyclist should have shown greater awareness and responsibility so should the pedestrian. I have had a pedestrian talking on a mobile phone nearly walk into me on my bike and then got upset because it made her jump!

Initialised

I don't have a bell, I yell bike or make my brakes squeal or lock my rear wheel to get their attention. But on a shared path bikes generally have to give way to peds and horses.

This is why we either need ped free bike tracks or better driver training to make the roads safer.

Kieran_Burns

I had a VERY near miss tonight and I'm still not sure who was to blame (I said me at the time and apologised)

Turning right off a main road, there's a car waiting to turn right in the side road (so waiting for me to clear)

Here (I'm basically doing the same maneouver as the Cavalier in the photo)

Where the transit van is in this photo, there is a car parked. It's full dark and there are oncoming cars in front of me (plenty of time to get across though)

Right as I get on to the side I am suddenly confronted by a Lady crossing the junction behind the car waiting to pull out (right to left - going TO the shop). How hell I missed her... it was sheer luck (and only by inches). I simply didn't see her until it was too late. She was in dark clothes, it was night and I had headlights all around.

Scary, scary moment.

antfly

Is that anecdote really relevant ?
Cyclist's fault entirely, just ring a bell or something.

kwitshadie

There are 10,000 walking paths where I live and exactly one safe bike route into the city. Why anyone would pick that route for inattentive walking at rush hour I do not know, but they do.

I have had a (crazy?) pedestrian deliberately jump into my path in order to stop my bike and then call me "fat" and other insults that, even if true, had nothing to do with sharing a bike path. I've had an individual who must have been high do leaps of fright back and forth all over the path when I called out & startled him. I have been yelled at by people who apparently need hearing aids. A lot of strollers listening to ear pods wouldn't hear you if you had airhorns. And people walk, dressed in black, at night on this unlit bike path where bike headlights can only pick up so much. I've had people get mad because they think calling out means "Get out of my way".

Legally? It's probably the cyclist's fault. Morally? I always call out, in plenty of time for them to turn around and look if they wish, "passing on your left (or right)" and if there is a bike behind me I'll add "and one following". But you can't avoid them all.

prj45

Pedestrians have priority on cycle paths, so the cyclist was at fault shoulda been more careful, slowed down and made their presence aware.

prj45

Initialised wrote:

This is why we either need ped free bike tracks or better driver training to make the roads safer.

Hold on, many drivers want cyclist free roads!

BillyMansell

prj45 wrote:

Pedestrians have priority on cycle paths, so the cyclist was at fault shoulda been more careful, slowed down and made their presence aware.

Dumbest...statement...ever!

On shared paths all parties have a responsibility to each other but in law a cyclist has responsibilities to pedestrians that aren't reciprocated. This does not give pedestrians an absolute right to priority on shared paths and not to be mindful of their responsibilities other users of the shared path.

As to who was responsible in this case, my own view is both parties failed in their responsibilities to each other to possibly varying degrees but I'll leave that up the the lowest common denominator at the court of public opinion on YouTube to decide.

UndercoverElephant

Really? I thought prj45 was spot-on.

BillyMansell

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Really? I thought prj45 was spot-on.

Whilst in law cyclists have a responsibility to pedestrians that pedestrians don't have to cyclists, It's dangerous to interpret this as meaning pedestrians have priority on shared paths (we're not talking about footpaths or towpaths here as they have different rules regarding priority).

Similarly, it's argued that pedestrians have a right to use the road(to at least cross rather than as a path) where as cars use the roads under licence, therefore a similar inequity in responsibility but it would be dangerous to interpret this as meaning pedestrians have priority on the roads.

In both cases, rather than assuming priority, a cursory glance could save a pedestrian from death or injury.

3b4bikes

Nail on the head BillyMansell. Cyclists, drivers & pedestrians all need to take responsibility and take other road/path users into consideration. The mentality that its always someone else's fault or responsibility is the problem

Long_Time_Lurker

I watched this with the missus - she a solictor, specialising inthis sort of stuff.
I'm suprised we got through the whole thing, we both sat there swearing at the tv for the most part.

In that instance, the cyclist is 100% to blame. On public access paths, cyclists must always give way to pedestrians.
Unless someone could prove that the woman moved in the way on purpose, the cyclist was going too fast and was not in control.
The cyclist is supposed to be aware at all times, so that they can take action to people behaving unpredictably (within reason).

cookdn

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I had a VERY near miss tonight and I'm still not sure who was to blame (I said me at the time and apologised)

Turning right off a main road, there's a car waiting to turn right in the side road (so waiting for me to clear)

Here (I'm basically doing the same maneouver as the Cavalier in the photo)

Where the transit van is in this photo, there is a car parked. It's full dark and there are oncoming cars in front of me (plenty of time to get across though)

Right as I get on to the side I am suddenly confronted by a Lady crossing the junction behind the car waiting to pull out (right to left - going TO the shop). How hell I missed her... it was sheer luck (and only by inches). I simply didn't see her until it was too late. She was in dark clothes, it was night and I had headlights all around.

Scary, scary moment.

Kieran, I think I passed you last night in the opposite direction just after this little incident (I was in the car :oops:). You had just left East Leake heading towards West Leake and Kegworth (just going down that incline you were making out to be a hill ).

From the your description it sounds like you both SMIDSY'd each other. The ped was looking for motor vehicles and didn't see you and you weren't looking for peds wearing night camouflage sneaking between queuing vehicles. One of those things, I'm glad it wasn't any worse than giving each other a bit of a scare.

Best regards
David

Kieran_Burns

I was in my Nightvision jacket (bright yellow), with a vision 1 and the Mj808e on the front. I'd be interested to know what the lights were like from the front as I'm conscious of how bright they are (it was about 6pm when I was in East Leake) if they aren't angled correctly.

gtvlusso

prj45 wrote:

Pedestrians have priority on cycle paths, so the cyclist was at fault shoulda been more careful, slowed down and made their presence aware.

Yup - 100% cyclist responsibility on shared paths.

bails87

I think the cyclist was unlucky with that one. The ped stepped into his path, he turned to avoid her, and then she started running in order to stay directly in his path. If she'd just carried on walking he would have missed her. If she, at any point, had looked to her right she'd have seen the cyclist and probably not been hit.

That said, the cyclist was going too fast, past a 'junction' where it would be reasonable to expect either the ped to turn right or expect a ped or cyclist to be coming out of the side road/path. When I go past peds on shared use paths I always call out 'on your right/left' and slow down.

It's odd that if you were to show an equivalent video but on a road with the cyclist replaced by a car and the ped replaced by a cyclist, most people would say the cyclist was at fault, not the overtaker.

gtvlusso

On one of the shared cyclepaths that I use; There is several playparks leading off it, indicating that kids will be about, there is also an entrance to a park, dog walkers and so on. The Path is overladen with trees and hedges on each side, most of the exits off the path are blind or very dark. It is quite heavily used by pedestrians. Yet, it has a Strava segment!!!!

The amount of times that I see people blatting down the path with all these blind exits and entrances. Somene even hand made a sign asking cyclists to slow down. There will be a serious accident one day.

vermin

The cyclist could see the peds; the peds couldn't see or hear the cyclist. No-brainer.

mr_ribble

Its Wiggle's fault.

godders1

Cyclist, without a shadow of a doubt.

On a shared use path (I ride on a fairly busy one every day) you have to accept that pedestrians might not have road sense (or path sense) and so they’re not going to shoulder check or indicate their intentions. You might say they should be more aware but we are simply not conditioned to focus and concentrate when walking on a path in the same way that we are when cycling or driving.

So on shared use paths I think it’s the cyclists responsibility to ride at sensible speeds, make our presence known and anticipate things like potential exit points.

cookdn

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I was in my Nightvision jacket (bright yellow), with a vision 1 and the Mj808e on the front. I'd be interested to know what the lights were like from the front as I'm conscious of how bright they are (it was about 6pm when I was in East Leake) if they aren't angled correctly.

It was a bit earlier than that (about 1745-1750) and the chap I saw definitely didn't have a Nightvision jacket on. I have one and as soon as you are hit by any sort of reasonable light source you fluoresce like a 60's space ship 8). On that basis the ped needs to visit their optician.

(ps. I want your commute as mine sucks in comparison )

Kieran_Burns

cookdn wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I was in my Nightvision jacket (bright yellow), with a vision 1 and the Mj808e on the front. I'd be interested to know what the lights were like from the front as I'm conscious of how bright they are (it was about 6pm when I was in East Leake) if they aren't angled correctly.

It was a bit earlier than that (about 1745-1750) and the chap I saw definitely didn't have a Nightvision jacket on. I have one and as soon as you are hit by any sort of reasonable light source you fluoresce like a 60's space ship 8). On that basis the ped needs to visit their optician.

(ps. I want your commute as mine sucks in comparison )

For God's sake don't look at the post I just put in "The War" thread then.... 8)

Bustacapp

jds_1981 wrote:

At the same time - what was the pedestrian doing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGO3bt6YPKo
It's like walking in London, other people just stop or change direction randomly which can get close even if you're just walking past them at a reasonable pace.

Note to self: Only ever walk in straight lines following the shortest logical path to reach destination. Anything else is merely selfish and inefficient.

:rolleyes:

meanredspider

I don't know if it has been said anywhere yet but I think there's naturally more onus on the person passing the other person: they're far more "in control" of the situation. Again, naturally, someone on a bike is likely to cause more harm and is also less able to react. Peds do have some responsibility to be aware of what's around them even to other peds though. As has been said (I believe), these principles scale up to bikes & motor vehicles on the road.

Kieran_Burns

If you watch my vids of me cycling the Tissington Trail you'll see I always slow down and always ring the bell. The bell's an essential piece of equipment.

I really try to assume nothing and make sure people are aware I am there.

It's actually pretty impressive that when you ring the bell, how people automatically move left and give you room. (there have been some comedy moments where people on the left go right and people on the right go left, also on film - but we share a laugh at this)

I always say thanks as well... a bit of effort, and some courtesy go a LONG way to making it all work.