Mac laptop

gabriel959

UndercoverElephant wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

The point I make is that the spec of my computer is better than anything you can get on a Mac of any price and it works as well. It boots up in less than 15 seconds, its intuitive, fast and I can install as many different bits as I would like. The warranty in most if not all of the components is 3 years at the least too, for nowt.

The fact is bike analogies don't really cut it because it isn't the same thing. That you want style over substance is a fair point, everything else is marketing jargon.

Indeed. A better analogy would be that Gabriel thinks that kitting out a Raleigh Grifter frame with DI2 and deep carbon-rimmed wheels would make the best bike.

Wrong again. The bike analogy just doesn't work because the chassis isn't like the frame on a bike. The motherboard in any case could be your frame. The paintjob is the case.

walkingbootweather

I've had a couple of Apples, neither lasted more than a fortnight. My Orange phone wasn't much better, and as for my Blackberry.......

More seriously, I have never managed to bring myself to buy into Apple computing because you seem to get so much more bang for your buck with a Windows on Linux machine. Apples are great if you just want to turn it on and do stuff, but if you like to play and are able to configure and fix stuff yourself you can get yourself a mighty fine laptop for less than half the price of an Apple.

redhanded

Something worth considering in favour of the MacBook (Pro or Air) is the resale value is really good.

Last year I sold a 3.5 year old Mac Book Pro for about 50% of the original purchase price, so the depreciation was about £150-£200 per year. I've had similar experiences selling other Macs.

I replaced the Pro with an Air as I do a reasonable amount of travelling, and love the reduced size and weight, but I don't do anything particularly demanding in terms of storage or processor requirements.

gabriel959

redhanded wrote:

Something worth considering in favour of the MacBook (Pro or Air) is the resale value is really good.

Last year I sold a 3.5 year old Mac Book Pro for about 50% of the original purchase price, so the depreciation was about £150-£200 per year. I've had similar experiences selling other Macs.

I replaced the Pro with an Air as I do a reasonable amount of travelling, and love the reduced size and weight, but I don't do anything particularly demanding in terms of storage or processor requirements.

That is a genuine positive point about them.

CiB

Blimey - four pages, and all I asked what what's a decent Mac lappy. Just what I expected. Next week I'll ask if I should use Campag or Shimano gears.

The main driver for going down the Mac route is primarily to be able to run the same music s/w that the school uses - Logic is what they use apparently. From what I can gather Logic won't run on Windows or any other platform, so it looks like the Mac Pro would be the answer but the premium for the portability is a bit steep so he might end up with a Mac Mini to live with until he can afford his own ludicrously expensive toys.

Sent from my works Lenova Thinkpad XP SP3. It works, has done for four years and never misses a beat. I wouldn't buy one though.

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

The point I make is that the spec of my computer is better than anything you can get on a Mac of any price and it works as well. It boots up in less than 15 seconds, its intuitive, fast and I can install as many different bits as I would like. The warranty in most if not all of the components is 3 years at the least too, for nowt.

The fact is bike analogies don't really cut it because it isn't the same thing. That you want style over substance is a fair point, everything else is marketing jargon.

So if you've built a computer and can warranty components, good for you. Most laptops have 1 year.

Intuitive is questionable. It's intuitive to you because you're clearly experienced. Undoubtedly, non-Apple machines give more "freedom" for people to play but, 95% of people don't want to do that - they just want something that works. Some people want aesthetic appeal too. If you get off on configuring things (and I know some do) all well and good. The appeal of Macs for me (these days) is that I turn the thing on and it just does the job I want it to do. I've wasted too much of my life fighting Windows. I can understand that it would be frustrating for a tinkerer to not be able to do that but most of us have better things to do with our lives.

The analogy I'd draw with this is my two personal cars: I have a modern Merc. I get in it, turn the key and off I go. It's an auto box with Sat Nav, auto lights, auto wipers, etc etc. It just works with as little fuss and bother as possible. If it goes wrong (which, touch wood, it almost never does) I take it to the dealer because I don't have the capability to mess with it. In the garage I have a 1969 Alfa. It's a race car. Almost nothing is as the factory intended - it doesn't even have a heater. It's a riot to drive and I do nearly every bit of maintenance on it. It's much faster than the Merc and it corners better, brakes better etc etc It's also cheaper than the Merc (possibly). On paper the Alfa makes far more sense than the Merc. In reality, it would be a horrible day-to-day car. That, in extreme, is how I see my experience with Macs and Windows machines. It's not about hype or jargon or anything - it's about user experience

CiB

Don't buy a Land Rover then MRS. Not a Series IIA especially. User experience...?

meanredspider

CiB wrote:

Don't buy a Land Rover then MRS. Not a Series IIA especially. User experience...?

Don't worry - it was never on the cards

il_principe

meanredspider wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

The point I make is that the spec of my computer is better than anything you can get on a Mac of any price and it works as well. It boots up in less than 15 seconds, its intuitive, fast and I can install as many different bits as I would like. The warranty in most if not all of the components is 3 years at the least too, for nowt.

The fact is bike analogies don't really cut it because it isn't the same thing. That you want style over substance is a fair point, everything else is marketing jargon.

So if you've built a computer and can warranty components, good for you. Most laptops have 1 year.

Intuitive is questionable. It's intuitive to you because you're clearly experienced. Undoubtedly, non-Apple machines give more "freedom" for people to play but, 95% of people don't want to do that - they just want something that works. Some people want aesthetic appeal too. If you get off on configuring things (and I know some do) all well and good. The appeal of Macs for me (these days) is that I turn the thing on and it just does the job I want it to do. I've wasted too much of my life fighting Windows. I can understand that it would be frustrating for a tinkerer to not be able to do that but most of us have better things to do with our lives.

The analogy I'd draw with this is my two personal cars: I have a modern Merc. I get in it, turn the key and off I go. It's an auto box with Sat Nav, auto lights, auto wipers, etc etc. It just works with as little fuss and bother as possible. If it goes wrong (which, touch wood, it almost never does) I take it to the dealer because I don't have the capability to mess with it. In the garage I have a 1969 Alfa. It's a race car. Almost nothing is as the factory intended - it doesn't even have a heater. It's a riot to drive and I do nearly every bit of maintenance on it. It's much faster than the Merc and it corners better, brakes better etc etc It's also cheaper than the Merc (possibly). On paper the Alfa makes far more sense than the Merc. In reality, it would be a horrible day-to-day car. That, in extreme, is how I see my experience with Macs and Windows machines. It's not about hype or jargon or anything - it's about user experience

Very well put. Especially the fighting Windows bit. I cannot understand why Microsoft, with all their money, cannot hire people to design a more user friendly OS. I'm not a geek, but I'm ok with computers and have always found windows to be a nightmare. Had a play on a Surface tablet recently, and they're getting there, but 75% of the execution is still woeful. The sooner they ditch Ballmer, the better!

vermin

The 'intuitive' argument: I find Windows entirely intuitive. It's very obvious where everything is, be that programmes, files, settings or anything else. The times I've had the pleasure of using Macs I have been completely lost. Not a clue where anything is. Bamboozled. That comes down to two things; software design and personal use experience. Windows is very simply set out in obvious tree path directories and menus and I've used Windows a lot, ergo I know where things go and how they work. That said, I've just 'upgraded' to Windows 8 and it's all a bit of a mess, to be honest!

The 'it just works' argument: Macs do. That's because only Apple make the hardware and the software, and they control what and where everything points. Its a captive market; for media, go to itunes and give us your money; for software, go to the Apps store and give us your money; you want a portable player; here are our ipods, speakers, etc, give us your money. Of course it's easy, that's what Apple is all about, making it easy and obvious for you to give them your money. The Windows world is, of course, far more competitive, so Windows won't point you in the direction of a particular supplier in the same way.

The Merc vs Alfa argument: That sort of works, but I'd say that the crucial difference would be that each time you wanted to change gear, change direction, turn on the lights or the wipers, you would have to pay Merc 10p. Oh, and, you didn't want to put that bike in the back did you? Sorry, only Merc bikes fit.

meanredspider

I think that's a jaded view of Mac. I hardly think I've paid them a penny for content and plenty of other kit works with Macs (printers, drives, etc etc). You can go down that route in the same way as you can buy your Thule roof bars from the Merc dealer at twice the price with a Merc badge stuck on - but nothing forces you to. You know they'll fit and they might look pretty

gabriel959

I haven't fought Windows for a long time. It just works as you say, you don't have to configure anything these days if you want it that way, bar the password for your wireless network. I don't change security files, or access strange places, heck even the overclocking is done by a GUI these days if you wanted to. Granted I am not a general user but both my mother in law, sister in law, wife, etc who know little of computers seem to cope ok. The only problem I've had in 8 years is some memory failing which got replaced. I build their computers every 4 years or so and I usually spend £400 in decent components.

Either I am just very lucky or you are all a bit ham-fisted when it comes to dealing with computers

vermin

meanredspider wrote:

I think that's a jaded view of Mac. I hardly think I've paid them a penny for content and plenty of other kit works with Macs (printers, drives, etc etc). You can go down that route in the same way as you can buy your Thule roof bars from the Merc dealer at twice the price with a Merc badge stuck on - but nothing forces you to. You know they'll fit and they might look pretty

Jaded view of Mac vs jaded view of Windows...

rjsterry

gabriel959 wrote:

I haven't fought Windows for a long time. It just works as you say, you don't have to configure anything these days if you want it that way, bar the password for your wireless network. I don't change security files, or access strange places, heck even the overclocking is done by a GUI these days if you wanted to. Granted I am not a general user but both my mother in law, sister in law, wife, etc who know little of computers seem to cope ok. The only problem I've had in 8 years is some memory failing which got replaced. I build their computers every 4 years or so and I usually spend £400 in decent components.

Either I am just very lucky or you are all a bit ham-fisted when it comes to dealing with computers

In that case, perhaps you could pop down and get the one PC laptop in the office to connect to our printer. The procedure is fine: work your way through the windows to select the printer, download the driver and install - all fine and dandy. Will it actually send a file to print? Will it f***. All the Macs talk to it fine. The printer - one of those multifunction print/copy/scan/fax jobbies - has a Windows-based PC inside it.

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

I haven't fought Windows for a long time.

EVERY visit to my parents (who are silver surfers) I have to fix something with their PC. It's actually how I got started on the whole "Mac" thing. My HP laptop was running like a dog and Mrs MRS announced she wanted a laptop. I cringed at the idea of forever needing to sort stuff (she's not at all techie) so I decided to try the Mac. I can honestly say that I NEVER have to touch it. Then my very expensive Sony VAIO desktop gave up the ghost so I bought a reconditioned 27" iMac which the whole family use. Apart from being a thing of beauty, it's just wonderful to use. We've also got various iPads (the first of which Charlie was bought when he started his chemo and has paid for itself 100x over) none of which have missed a beat. When my HP laptop thankfully died, I traded it's useless carcass against a MacBook Air (I travel a lot). I simply no longer spend any time on computer maintenance - nothing at all - it's bliss.

And I think the thing to remember is that I come from a background of intensive PC use. My Web business had 15 PCs for instance which I used to network, maintain, configure, back up etc etc in the days of Windows 95/NT etc I'm just done with messing about with it - it's such a waste of a life - in the same way that I don't want to be adjusting tappets, checking points gaps, setting the timing etc on my daily car.

Paul E

I would never go back to a windows machine, as someone else has said, when I go back to my dads, I always have to do something to his desktop or his laptop (my old one) with this MBP I have had to do NOTHING to it since 2009 OS wise, it just works, it's not dumbed down, I don't need to tweak stuff because for me it's already spot on.

Hoopdriver

I have used Apple since the 1980s, as does everyone with whom I work - writers and photographers both. Believe me, there is a reason that virtually everyone in media uses them. If you spend thousands of pounds on lenses and camera bodies there is no point in getting anything less than the best to work on the resulting images. It is not about hype or brand loyalty it is simply going for what does the best job and is the most reliable.

gabriel959

meanredspider wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

I haven't fought Windows for a long time.

EVERY visit to my parents (who are silver surfers) I have to fix something with their PC. It's actually how I got started on the whole "Mac" thing. My HP laptop was running like a dog and Mrs MRS announced she wanted a laptop. I cringed at the idea of forever needing to sort stuff (she's not at all techie) so I decided to try the Mac. I can honestly say that I NEVER have to touch it. Then my very expensive Sony VAIO desktop gave up the ghost so I bought a reconditioned 27" iMac which the whole family use. Apart from being a thing of beauty, it's just wonderful to use. We've also got various iPads (the first of which Charlie was bought when he started his chemo and has paid for itself 100x over) none of which have missed a beat. When my HP laptop thankfully died, I traded it's useless carcass against a MacBook Air (I travel a lot). I simply no longer spend any time on computer maintenance - nothing at all - it's bliss.

And I think the thing to remember is that I come from a background of intensive PC use. My Web business had 15 PCs for instance which I used to network, maintain, configure, back up etc etc in the days of Windows 95/NT etc I'm just done with messing about with it - it's such a waste of a life - in the same way that I don't want to be adjusting tappets, checking points gaps, setting the timing etc on my daily car.

Honestly I haven't had to touch their computers for the past 2 years! May be you buy poor computers, I don't know.

I do appreciate the whole time thingy, wholeheartedly, I also like to have enough money in my pocket to enjoy my life with them and not with my gadgets.

As it stands I have zero problems and a fatter wallet :twisted:

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

Honestly I haven't had to touch their computers for the past 2 years! May be you buy poor computers, I don't know.

Well, I've had computers from Acer, Lenovo, Toshiba, HP, Sony and Dell (amongst others...) HP was a low point but they were generally equally crap. Sony wanted to charge me £300 to replace a failed DVD reader (yes, a £10 component, that took 5 minutes to swap) 2 weeks outside warranty! But it's the operating system that is poor. Installing bloody service packs (avoiding the even-numbered ones, or is it the odds?), updating drivers, defragging, antivirus, selecting USB ports, running firewalls, blue screens of death, conflicts, compatibility modes, running as administrator, subnet masks zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Paul E

meanredspider wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Honestly I haven't had to touch their computers for the past 2 years! May be you buy poor computers, I don't know.

Well, I've had computers from Acer, Lenovo, Toshiba, HP, Sony and Dell (amongst others...) HP was a low point but they were generally equally crap. Sony wanted to charge me £300 to replace a failed DVD reader (yes, a £10 component, that took 5 minutes to swap) 2 weeks outside warranty! But it's the operating system that is poor. Installing bloody service packs (avoiding the even-numbered ones, or is it the odds?), updating drivers, defragging, antivirus, selecting USB ports, running firewalls, blue screens of death, conflicts, compatibility modes, running as administrator, subnet masks zzzzzzzzzzzzz

and that window that comes up to ask you if you want to run whatever you just double clicked, if you haven't dug through several obscure submenus to switch it off. Been there done that, never ever going back.