Dressed in black again

unixnerd

So this morning the BBC news has an interview with a member of Sustrans about safer cycling. The presenter cycles in dressed in head to toe dayglo-black! We had a similar advertising campaign in Scotland recently to encourage drivers to give children more space when they cycle to school, naturally the girl on the bike was in dark brown to make her easy to spot.

When will they learn.....

daviesee

Your lights should be brighter than your jacket.

king_jeffers

Assumed he was just in business dress?

Find these things frustrating, safety concerns are always being raised yet nothing seems to be done to implement them.

il_principe

Yawn. The presumption that all cyclists should wear yellow is getting a bit boring. Reflectives and adequate lights are whats important. I see plenty of people who seem to think that wearing fluro yellow negates the need for lights or reflectives...

Kieran_Burns

Il Principe wrote:

Yawn. The presumption that all cyclists should wear yellow is getting a bit boring. Reflectives and adequate lights are whats important. I see plenty of people who seem to think that wearing fluro yellow negates the need for lights or reflectives...

+1

It's a case of victim blaming to insist that cyclists should wear BRIGHT YELLOW CLOTHING!!!!111ELEVEN!!!!

While it IS advisable, it should not be seen as a requirement. It's a passive defence at best and only works when lights are pointed at it. Active bright lights are the thing that should be seen as de facto requirement when cycling in the dark, and DRIVER awareness as the other at all times.

gtvlusso

What 'il Principe' said....

Black bike, black clothing, black heart......except my socks, they were green and white hooped rugby socks. I have a load of them from my rowing days.

MrSweary

Il Principe wrote:

Yawn. The presumption that all cyclists should wear yellow is getting a bit boring. Reflectives and adequate lights are whats important. I see plenty of people who seem to think that wearing fluro yellow negates the need for lights or reflectives...

This.

Also, I recently discovered Scotchbright stick on patches. Think my rucksack must make me look like a Christmas tree from behind now...

CiB

Someone on here not so long ago claimed that what matters in daylight is solid blocks of colour, not broken-up patches of hi-viz that are more easily lost against a non-uniform background. It made sense to me; all black, all red even all yellow is fine for daytime rides. At night, yeah, slap on the reflectives & the multitude of lights.

unixnerd

Reflectives and adequate lights are whats important

Our friends in the BBC and government advertising didn't have either of these I'm sorry to say. It shows a lack of thought more than anything else.

I often wear a dark green top in the winter because it was bought for me as a present and it's ideal other than it's colour. Had I bought it myself I'd have got a brighter one. But if I'm wearing it even in the daytime I'll use lights.

The main thing is to prevent accidents in any way possible. Cyclists have a right to wear black and car drivers shouldn't hit them.....

meanredspider

I hear what you guys are saying but aren't you all assuming it's dark? At least for reflectives to work... Don't think the OP mentioned anything about being at night.

In daylight, you see someone in bright clothing long before you see their light (unless we're talking a zillion Watt thing and then I think you're into a dangerous path of having daylight running lights on bikes)

bigmat

Much as I dislike hi-viz, in daylight it is, well, highly visible. One thing I have noticed is when cycling past a glass fronted shop, where you can look across and check out your reflection (you know, just checking position!) - its striking how much easier it is to pick yourself out from the crowd in a hi-viz jacket. I don't think it should be a requirement, unless and until all cars are only sold in fluorescent yellow as well, but it certainly makes sense to be as visible as possible. I like to think that in broad daylight my bright blue jacket should be enough, but at the back of my mind I know hi-viz would be safer (of course I assume I am invisible to other road users and ride accordingly...)

Come dusk / dark, lights and reflectives. The latter perhaps more important on street-lit roads. Front lights barely necessary to be honest.

spatuluk

Agree with the above. Fluorescents only work against a dark-ish background, with lots of light. At night, all the lamps are pointing in the wrong directions to make it fluoresce, so it's the reflective strips and lights that do all the work.

I'm not even convinced they're a good idea in daylight.. my peripheral vision tracks contrasting colours the best, so when it's light, I notice dark stuff a lot more than I notice bright stuff. That might just be me, tho. :P

il_principe

meanredspider wrote:

I hear what you guys are saying but aren't you all assuming it's dark? At least for reflectives to work... Don't think the OP mentioned anything about being at night.

In daylight, you see someone in bright clothing long before you see their light (unless we're talking a zillion Watt thing and then I think you're into a dangerous path of having daylight running lights on bikes)

Yeah, I do have a pink gilet that I'll sometimes wear on winter training rides. Figure pink is miles better than yellow, especially in Autumn when IME the yellow can blend into the autumnal colours.

unixnerd

Front lights barely necessary to be honest.

On an major road in the country I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Biggest scare I've ever had was years ago when riding along on a dull afternoon in the green jacket I mentioned above. One car coming towards me overtook another and almost hit me doing one heck of a speed, I can only assume they didn't see me. That's why I use a front light if I'm not in hi-viz. I got one heck of a fright, they must have been doing over 80 and passed within inches of me.

il_principe

Having said all this, the BBC guy this morning was reporting from a Sustrans path, rather than a busy road...

gtvlusso

TBH - Riding completely naked will get you noticed more than any flouro clothing.

F*cking cold, mind

For that reason, I am out.

bigmat

unixnerd wrote:

Front lights barely necessary to be honest.

On an major road in the country I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Biggest scare I've ever had was years ago when riding along on a dull afternoon in the green jacket I mentioned above. One car coming towards me overtook another and almost hit me doing one heck of a speed, I can only assume they didn't see me. That's why I use a front light if I'm not in hi-viz. I got one heck of a fright, they must have been doing over 80 and passed within inches of me.

I was referring to urban commuting, in the dark. You shouldn't need a front light in broad daylight - would need to be super bright to even be visible. Do you reckon the car overtaking at 80mph would have missed the guy on a bike but spotted the light?

meanredspider

BigMat wrote:

I was referring to urban commuting, in the dark.

I actually think urban might require lights every bit as bright else you get "lost" in the headlight of vehicles behind you. Being poorly-lit when everyone else is well-lit is possibly one of the most dangerous scenarios.

Out where I am, a rear light doesn't need to be very bright before it's really obvious because there's almost no other light about. Obviously a good front light is important to see with though.

Kieran_Burns

gtvlusso wrote:

TBH - Riding completely naked will get you noticed more than any flouro clothing.

F*cking cold, mind

For that reason, I am out.

When you say out....

daviesee

BigMat wrote:

Come dusk / dark, lights and reflectives. The latter perhaps more important on street-lit roads. Front lights barely necessary to be honest.

This is nonsense.
I meet a few commuters going the other way on a bike path in the dark without lights and I can't see them until the last 20m and I am looking for them. Car drivers don't stand a chance once the path runs out.
I have been sorely tempted to stop them and vigorously explain the error of their ways.

And yes, they have yellow jackets.

Paul E

I wear whatever keeps me warm/cool/dry there are reflactives on most of my clothes here or there colour really doesn't come into it, the rest is taken care of two rear lights one on constant one flash and the same on the front, I have reflective strips on my helmet front and back too.

kiwimatt

Just to lighten the mood I passed a chap this morning I can only describe as 'banana man'. It was pitch black and torrential rain and he was making good time on a sit up and beg, clad completely head to foot in high viz yellow, long trousers, jacket, matching yellow helmet cover and twin panniers also in high viz yellow with reflectives. My memory may be paying tricks on me but he may also have been sporting a hi viz buff.

Never seen anything like it (but saw him from half a mile back...)

kieranb

I thought this was going to be about pedestrians who step out into the road or cross through heavy traffic wearing dark clothing etc, a very hard to see whilst either cycling or driving, at least when I go running I wear a hi-viz gillet and arm bands.

unixnerd

I thought this was going to be about pedestrians who step out into the road or cross through heavy traffic wearing dark clothing etc, a very hard to see whilst either cycling or driving, at least when I go running I wear a hi-viz gillet and arm bands.

Dual use cycle paths are bad for that. What's worse is when they have a dog on one of those super long leads. I was coming home in the dark and only at the last minute did I realise the dog on one side of the path was connected to the human on the other by a very thin and almost invisible lead. I stopped with my wheel actually touching the lead.

I do think it's up to the cyclist to go at a safe speed for the conditions on those paths though, people have to be allowed to walk dogs somewhere (despite the fact I'm more of a cat person!). I'm probably warier of pedestrians that of drivers, especially tourists in my village.

Paul E

unixnerd wrote:

I thought this was going to be about pedestrians who step out into the road or cross through heavy traffic wearing dark clothing etc, a very hard to see whilst either cycling or driving, at least when I go running I wear a hi-viz gillet and arm bands.

Dual use cycle paths are bad for that. What's worse is when they have a dog on one of those super long leads. I was coming home in the dark and only at the last minute did I realise the dog on one side of the path was connected to the human on the other by a very thin and almost invisible lead. I stopped with my wheel actually touching the lead.

I do think it's up to the cyclist to go at a safe speed for the conditions on those paths though, people have to be allowed to walk dogs somewhere (despite the fact I'm more of a cat person!). I'm probably warier of pedestrians that of drivers, especially tourists in my village.

You haven't experienced the road that runs alongside London Bridge station, it's like playing lemmings, they just don't look and some even just stand in the bike lane.

unixnerd

You haven't experienced the road that runs alongside London Bridge station, it's like playing lemmings, they just don't look and some even just stand in the bike lane.

Ah no, in Scotland we have a better version of that. There's a rule that if you're a young mother with a baby and you want to cross the road you're allowed to stand on the kerb and put the pushchair into the road in order to stop the traffic. If you're also smoking or listening to an iThingy you have a higher priority. I wish I was joking.....

suzyb

meanredspider wrote:

I actually think urban might require lights every bit as bright else you get "lost" in the headlight of vehicles behind you. Being poorly-lit when everyone else is well-lit is possibly one of the most dangerous scenarios.

Yes imho.

A couple of weeks ago whilst waiting at a junction on a stretch of unlit road a cyclist on a brompton passed. He had very dim lights and had been completely invisible due to the headlights of the cars behind until he was right on the junction. With the speed the cars were going, had they been indicating I would probably have nipped out right in front of him

unixnerd wrote:

Ah no, in Scotland we have a better version of that. There's a rule that if you're a young mother with a baby and you want to cross the road you're allowed to stand on the kerb and put the pushchair into the road in order to stop the traffic. If you're also smoking or listening to an iThingy you have a higher priority. I wish I was joking.....

You forgot to mention, if they are on the phone they are allowed to walk straight out onto the road without even glancing up.

chilling

kieranb wrote:

I thought this was going to be about pedestrians who step out into the road or cross through heavy traffic wearing dark clothing etc, a very hard to see whilst either cycling or driving, at least when I go running I wear a hi-viz gillet and arm bands.

My ride starts in Soho, those people don't even recognise the road as being for vehicles. My first mile is pretty much a slow slalom between the groups of people sauntering down the middle of the road or leaping from the pavement without looking.

Paul E

chilling wrote:

kieranb wrote:

I thought this was going to be about pedestrians who step out into the road or cross through heavy traffic wearing dark clothing etc, a very hard to see whilst either cycling or driving, at least when I go running I wear a hi-viz gillet and arm bands.

My ride starts in Soho, those people don't even recognise the road as being for vehicles. My first mile is pretty much a slow slalom between the groups of people sauntering down the middle of the road or leaping from the pavement without looking.

Mine used to, there was no point trying to get any speed up as it would be too dangerous with people walking about like zombies

bushu

unixnerd wrote:

Dual use cycle paths are bad for that. What's worse is when they have a dog on one of those super long leads. I was coming home in the dark and only at the last minute did I realise the dog on one side of the path was connected to the human on the other by a very thin and almost invisible lead. I stopped with my wheel actually touching the lead.

I do think it's up to the cyclist to go at a safe speed for the conditions on those paths though, people have to be allowed to walk dogs somewhere (despite the fact I'm more of a cat person!). I'm probably warier of pedestrians that of drivers, especially tourists in my village.

Exactly what i think, reckon I stand out okay in outer suburbs, the odd cycle lane, plenty of lights on the street & my bike flashing away. It's when I make contact with path I worry most, even slowly & taking care past pedestrians I'm usually met head on by a pair of plonkers in HV vests and puny front lamp or dog walkers on the M1 flyover where the cycle lane converges with footpath :roll:

Also tend not to worry on the roads as even with my nugget protector i think the speeds we go at and being stopped by a big lump o' metal, be brownbread anywho