Thinking of swapping a hybrid for a road bike.

bobcollege

Hi, not sure if this is in the correct forum, apologies if it isnt.

I'm currently using a 2011 Specialized Sirrus Comp for weekend leisure riding with my wife which I have no issues with but I have started to use the same bike for my commute to work and feel a bit underwhelmed by its performance. I have fitted 23c road tyres instead of the stock 28c.

If I want to get speed up on the flat it seems to be alot of work and and i lose momentum quickly same when I hit even the slightest upward hill I lose momentum quickly even when changing down. I may not have explained this as clear as I could but I hope someone will know where I a coming from.

When I was a kid I remember having a Raleigh Pulsar and I loved it so I am wondering whether a road bikes gears would perform better than a hybrids. Should I swap for a road bike or would I be wasting my money?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

TakeTurns

If you're expecting miracles from a road bike, I'm sorry, but it will not happen. Especially if you're commuting, stopping and starting frequently is going to lose you those couple seconds which you've gained.

The bike which you're currently running is a pretty decent hybrid. If you wanted to upgrade, I'd consider the wheels.

antfly

Losing momentum on hills is down to the wheels more than anything {apart from legs}, it happens the same on a race bike with cheap, heavy, flexy wheels. You could try getting some decent wheels first seeing as even if you buy a road bike it will probably come with cheap wheels anyway. Shimano RS 80 wheelset is a good upgrade, I just put them on my winter bike which was losing momentum on the hills with it's crap wheels and now I fly up. You need fast tyres too.

Barteos

Sorry if it's a bit direct but if you rapidly loose momentum on inclines you are simply heavy and/or lack power or your rear tyre is under-inflated and deflects too much when the weight shift towards the rear of the bike.
The worse you power to weight ratio is the quicker deceleration is going to be.

Wheels have very little to do with it.

NO EVIDENCE exists to support claims that lighter wheels make any meaningful difference in performance comparing to a static weight.
People calculating/simulating the effect of rotating weight usually come to the same conclusion that its effect is too small to affect bike performance in a meaningful way.

blackpoolkev

Most of your effort goes towards overcoming wind resistance.A drop handlebar road bike will encourage a more efficient position ergo more speed.

antfly

Barteos wrote:

Sorry if it's a bit direct but if you rapidly loose momentum on inclines you are simply heavy and/or lack power or your rear tyre is under-inflated and deflects too much when the weight shift towards the rear of the bike.
The worse you power to weight ratio is the quicker deceleration is going to be.

Wheels have very little to do with it.

NO EVIDENCE exists to support claims that lighter wheels make any meaningful difference in performance comparing to a static weight.
People calculating/simulating the effect of rotating weight usually come to the same conclusion that its effect is too small to affect bike performance in a meaningful way.

It's not just about weight it's about stiffness, or are you saying quality of wheels makes no difference at all, which would be silly ? You only have to try it to notice the difference.

Barteos

I'm not claiming that wheels don't make a difference at all but the actual (not perceived) performance gains/losses are overrated and meaningless for most of people.

A wheel with spoke tension of +100kgf which doesn't rub against the brake blocks when climbing is stiff enough.

Markjaspi

I say go for it, I personally went from a hybrid that I'd spent a bit of cash on to make a bit quicker / more comfortable inc. tyres that roll faster, carbon bars, stem & seat post to a budget road bike (Allez Sport 2013).

I was working really hard to achieve 15-16mph on my hybrid and now if I take it easy on my road bike I can achieve that, even on a stop start route with windy weather I average from 18.5 to 19.5mph. And the only real change is I've added some Ultremo ZX HD tyres and of course 1200 miles later I'm a bit fitter.

bobcollege

Right thanks for the replies. I posted the same topic on another forum and the same as this forum I may have not explained myself properly. Even if I read the opening post it looks like I am after a miracle cure for hills, swap my sirrus for a stannah I hear you all say

What I should have asked in the thread starter is "are road bikes gearing more efficient than hybrids when it comes to speed" and from deciphering some of the posts on both forms I have posted I can assume the answer is yes.

Anyway I have decided to get myself a road bike and keep both for the time being and see how I get on.

Thanks all for you help.

Neil.

Ps. I'm not over weight

antfly

Barteos wrote:

I'm not claiming that wheels don't make a difference at all but the actual (not perceived) performance gains/losses are overrated and meaningless for most of people.

A wheel with spoke tension of +100kgf which doesn't rub against the brake blocks when climbing is stiff enough.

My actual gain was 1mph which is a helluva lot, apart from the massive increase in enjoyment which is priceless.

nolight

If you are upgrading from a Specialized Sirrus, you may get SLOWER with the road bike!

viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12890081

Barteos

antfly wrote:

Barteos wrote:

I'm not claiming that wheels don't make a difference at all but the actual (not perceived) performance gains/losses are overrated and meaningless for most of people.

A wheel with spoke tension of +100kgf which doesn't rub against the brake blocks when climbing is stiff enough.

My actual gain was 1mph which is a helluva lot, apart from the massive increase in enjoyment which is priceless.

That's nothing. I recall some people claiming 2mph extra with their "faster" wheels

Addressing the OP question:

Unless you're running out of gears I don't know how the gearing on a road bike would be more "efficient".
Get the gear you find comfortable and spin/mash or if the hill is short put more power to maintain momentum.

There are obviously some macho guys who believe that fitting a small cassette and big chainring makes them faster but that's because they are simply forced to put more power to maintain certain speed/cadence.
Your speed is a function of power not the gear ratio.


You see just like Youtube has their conspiracy nonsense videos that people use as a source of information, bicycle forums have their own myths based on beliefs and feel rather than science.
E.g. most of people still believe that narrow tyres are faster, road pedals transfer power more efficiently, lighter wheels make a noticeable performance difference, stiff is fast, comfortable is slow, if you need more than 2 headset spacers you're old or disabled... etc. All of those little things obviously MAKE A DIFFERENCE of several miles per hour

Get a road bike anyway. You'll like it for more hand/body position options. Don't expect miracles, though and don't confuse feeling fast with being fast. They are often two different things and most of people can't tell the difference.

Markjaspi

I must admit being a novice, I assumed that the move from hybrid to road bike would produce a miracle jump in speed and I remember after the first few rides being disappointed in the inital results.

What I have done / found is that I'm more used to the bikes setup & gear ratios and have learnt how to ride the bike and hence get myself fitter to achieve higher speeds.

Of course I've upgraded parts, but I don't put the increase In speed or ability to tackle hills etc. any better down to kit, it really is about you.

desweller

Check your bearings and keep up with your chain and rear derailleur maintenance. You can lose quite a bit of efficiency in these areas.

antfly

Barteos wrote:

antfly wrote:

Barteos wrote:

I'm not claiming that wheels don't make a difference at all but the actual (not perceived) performance gains/losses are overrated and meaningless for most of people.

A wheel with spoke tension of +100kgf which doesn't rub against the brake blocks when climbing is stiff enough.

My actual gain was 1mph which is a helluva lot, apart from the massive increase in enjoyment which is priceless.

That's nothing. I recall some people claiming 2mph extra with their "faster" wheels

So what wheels do you use, out of curiousity ?

unixnerd

I had a Felt hybrid as a hire bike in Norway recently. It was OK but felt a lot slower than any of my other bikes, even my tourer which has 28c tyres and must be about the same weight. I was quite surprised to be honest. If I were the OP I'd go to my LBS and test a few bikes on the road.

apreading

Then again, the Felt hybrids are REALLY heavy - I was going to buy one until I realised this. My Boardman feels light as a feather by comparison.

nolight

After I upgraded from my Trek hybrid 7-speed bike with 35c tires to 10-speed road bike with 23c tires, my average speed increased 4-5km/h. The big difference is going uphill which the heavy hybrid bike really struggles. If your hybrid is already quite light then you may not see that big a difference.

Barteos

antfly wrote:

Barteos wrote:

antfly wrote:

Barteos wrote:

I'm not claiming that wheels don't make a difference at all but the actual (not perceived) performance gains/losses are overrated and meaningless for most of people.

A wheel with spoke tension of +100kgf which doesn't rub against the brake blocks when climbing is stiff enough.

My actual gain was 1mph which is a helluva lot, apart from the massive increase in enjoyment which is priceless.

That's nothing. I recall some people claiming 2mph extra with their "faster" wheels

So what wheels do you use, out of curiousity ?

Currently on the road (road bike with 26" tyres) I use Hope hubs with 26" Stans Flow 28mm wide rims + Kojak 2" wide tyres (tubeless). My 29er has fat 2.40 tyres on 47mm rims that weigh probably half the weight of a TdF bike. In the past it was everything from Open Pro/Hope Pro3/Sapim CX-Ray/alloy nipples with 25mm GP4000 to Hope Pro3 ZTR 29er rims and Kojak 35mm tyres. Many others wheels too. I like experimenting, testing things and I keep my mind open so I don't get brainwashed by manufacturers, bike mags and bike forums... .
I've never noticed a DIFFERENCE between the wheels worth shouting about. Even when doing a sportive on a 5" full susp. mountain bike I haven't thought for a second "-Damn those wheels are heavy!" Handling could have been different but that's all.

Without a power meter, repeated test runs and some decent methodology we can't say that something makes a xx mph difference especially when science says that it shouldn't.
The best example is rolling resistance where a e.g. 23mm tyre at max pressure will always FEEL faster than say a 25mm or 28mm equivalent at 20-30PSI less... even though the tests would demonstrate that it's not the case.

As for (again) hybrid vs road bikes I think people shouldn't be comparing apples to oranges and fixating on bike categories too much.

A cheap comfort hybrid with 37mm street/touring tyres is no match for most of road bikes.
A lightweight carbon hybrid or even a mountain bike (rigid) with high end road tyres and sporty riding position can be as fast. It's not about the name or category of the bike but selection of components and the setup.

antfly

Road bike with 26" tyres ??
Science does say rotational weight is significant when accelerating, and we do that a lot.

964cup

I'll be interested in your results. I think most of the time it's psychology and fitness; certainly when my legs are working, no-one's overtaking me when I commute on my Sirrus, and I've got way more confidence in traffic than on my roadie (as others have pointed out in the other thread). My VMax is higher on the Sirrus on everything except the steepest climbs. Partly this is because the road bike is a compact, so I need to aim for a higher cadence, but mostly it's because the Sirrus actually has brakes (now upgraded to 180F/160R Magura MTS). I wouldn't dare approach the Archway roundabout as fast, or brake as late, on the road bike.

TakeTurns

964Cup wrote:

I'll be interested in your results. I think most of the time it's psychology and fitness; certainly when my legs are working, no-one's overtaking me when I commute on my Sirrus, and I've got way more confidence in traffic than on my roadie (as others have pointed out in the other thread). My VMax is higher on the Sirrus on everything except the steepest climbs. Partly this is because the road bike is a compact, so I need to aim for a higher cadence, but mostly it's because the Sirrus actually has brakes (now upgraded to 180F/160R Magura MTS). I wouldn't dare approach the Archway roundabout as fast, or brake as late, on the road bike.

I never brake on approach of Archway roundabout coming down from Highgate Hill...so fun

Barteos

antfly wrote:

Road bike with 26" tyres ??
Science does say rotational weight is significant when accelerating, and we do that a lot.

It's not about the wheel size but about the setup

What science really says is that wheels are just small parts of the bigger system and the effect of rotational weight is insignificant when one takes into account the combined weight of the rider and the bike.
It's crazy to fixate on rotating 4-6 pounds and ignore the remaining static 200lb.

Getting a small child to spin a wheel first and then to push/accelerate a 200lb shopping trolley may be the simplest possible experiment demonstrating how dramatically different forces are involved...

newjumper

I have recently sold by hybrid(Giant Escape 2) which was very heavy.
I intend to buy a road bike soon,early December....watch this space!