Get your fixie in Urban Cyclist magazine

Paul E

It's not less efficient it's an improvement having a starter motor, rather that than hand cranking it.

What's the loss in the drive train for a freewheel then, I bet it's tiny.

It's a good comparison because having a freewheel is a worthwhile improvement for the very small loss in effiency.

iPete

Moving away from the potential for some serious pedantry [because I have no 'science' to back any of this stuff up ] but for those short sharp 'hills' in london a fixed gear feels like it carries more momentum. You are driving the crank but the momentum in the wheel is also driving you. It feels vastly more efficient than my old allez roadie but thats due to lots of reasons, better fit, stiffer frame etc.

Paul in a nutshell, have you ever ridden a fixed bike [as a regular ride]?

pangolin

Summed up nicely by Henri Destrange,

Henri Destrange wrote:

I applaud this test, but I still feel that variable gears are only for people over 45. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on fellows. Let's say that the test was a fine demonstration - for our grandparents! As for me, give me a fixed gear!

ugo.santalucia

iPete wrote:

Moving away from the potential for some serious pedantry [because I have no 'science' to back any of this stuff up ] but for those short sharp 'hills' in london a fixed gear feels like it carries more momentum. You are driving the crank but the momentum in the wheel is also driving you. It feels vastly more efficient than my old allez roadie but thats due to lots of reasons, better fit, stiffer frame etc.

Paul in a nutshell, have you ever ridden a fixed bike [as a regular ride]?

I bet you'd run out of momentum up Muswell Hill...

Arent'these cool for a fixie?

iPete

ugo, don't know Muswell Hill but my quickest time up Box Hill is on my fixie!



& please don't tempt me with more wheels!! :evil:

ugo.santalucia

iPete wrote:

ugo, don't know Muswell Hill but my quickest time up Box Hill is on my fixie!



& please don't tempt me with more wheels!! :evil:

Muswell hill is in Haringey, one of the few thoughies in London, I would say half a mile at 10%... Box Hill is 5-6% even a fat bloke like myself can do it on a single sprocket

gtvlusso

For me;

Fixed riding is about feel.

There is no loss in momentum, going up a hill requires pull and push on the pedals (Hence SPD's). The bike feel is immense, although this could be down to aggressive geometry of most track bikes too!

The crank is almost 'willing' you along, there is no freeze point at 270 degrees like on a freewheel crank - the bike pushes you on.

For the record, I ride my fixed because of the feel of the bike and the road - it is such a basic way of riding with not gizmo's - just leg, bike and ar$e as one. There is very little maint too. It is simpler and economical.

Fixed riding does not do the knees much good, so I also ride a geared Racing bike too. Riding fixed make me appreciate the gears that I have on offer, 14 speed close ratio, and the freewheel. I use the gears more wisely and with less gear changes than if I was riding geared only.

I look like a t1t on a fixed bike as I am a grey haired old s0d.....but I don't really care, just enjoy a simple way of riding.

Clever Pun

DonDaddyD wrote:

Reckon the name of the magazine should be changed from 'Urban Cyclist' to 'Fakenger Scum'...

Anyway, I'll send my photo's in but here's my article:

Details of the bike: Stolen frame, gunmetal in colour. De-stickered halo wheels, white rim. White tyres. Single speed. Bull horn bars wraped in leather bar tape. No brakes. Brown leather Brookes saddle.

Where I ride: On the pan flat roads in London, I haven't got gears so I can't go uphill.

Why I love to ride it: It's counter culture, I'm different with my skinny jeans, mocha chocolate coffee and iPhone, iPad and iPod.

^ that person you describe does more miles than you

Clever Pun

I guess I fit the profile, but I die a little inside with the thought of being in a urban cyclist magazine
I commute 140 miles a week riding fixed as it's cheap, quick and great fitness, I ride the track, quick, fun and again great fitness, I even have a built up vintage frame for showboating and pretty rides when its sunny and my white tires wont get dirty

I don't have a piss weak moustache or hang round hoxton though

Clever Pun

rubertoe wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Fixies = Meh

Its not 1912 the freewheel has now been invented as have derailleurs.


I'd love a fixie, i'm just not man enough

I've been riding SS for a couple of days and it feels slower and lazier than riding fixed. The hills feel harder too.
FG DOES feel better than riding with a freewheel.

Barnet Hill on a fixie will put hair on your chest.

It's not Barnet Hill that worries me, i'ts getting from Camden to Finchely (Archway road, Swains Lane, Highgate West and North Hills and up through Hampstead is where it would hurt)

Smashed that on 50-16.. MTFU grit your teeth and pull up like a mofo at the same time as stomping down... you'll get up there

JamesB5446

50-16? Did you borrow your daughters bike?
I did it on this:

gtvlusso wrote:

There is no loss in momentum, going up a hill requires pull and push on the pedals (Hence SPD's).

You don't pull on the pedals.

The rest of your post I agree with.

pangolin

Yeah you do! I tried the same hill on my old fixed with flats, and with SPD's. Markedly easier with SPD's as I could pull up on them.

Agree that in normal riding (road bikes) people do not pull up on pedals, but you do going uphill on a fixed.

gtvlusso

^^what Pangolin says....

I used to use half toe clips and converse trainers (they dry out quick) - up hill was a nightmare with very little pull up available on the pedals. With SPD's you get push and pull - or you can vary between push only, pull only. TBH, I have done this on racing bakes with Look/SPD/clipless for years, but never really thought about it until riding fixed up a hill.

Try it.

rjsterry

I can confirm that one can very much pull up on the pedals - when my cleats have got worn, my SPDs have let go a couple of times, and I've nearly knee-ed myself in the chin. Also, having ridden almost exclusively with SPDs for the last 15 years, I now keep lifting my feet off the pedals on the rare occasion I use flats.

dhope

I can't ride up a steep hill on a fixed without foot retention. I live at the bottom of a very short 10% hill. My tiny mind can't fathom out how to ride up without pulling on the pedals a bit when fixed.

JamesB5446

Nope. The best riders in the world can decrease the amount of downwards pressure they put on the rear pedal, even they don't pull it up.
It might feel like you are, but you're not.
There have been a few studies on it but I'm failing to find the blog post I read that sums them up nicely without getting too technical.

jds_1981

Not convinced. In general, sure, people don't pull up (& I believe this is what the studies are on.)

When cycling up steep hills on fixed I do. I can attest as others have done that I've pulled my foot upwards out of my spds before when they've been too loose. Similarly when pulling away from lights.

edit: I'm fairly certain that I'm not fooling myself in this scenario as I've tried with pushing down with front foot and also with a good pull up on the back and the difference in acceleration is a lot. Indeed, some hills you have to pull up to get any speed up on.

JamesB5446

http://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fi ... troke.html
This has a bit on it.

iPete

JamesB5446 wrote:

Nope. The best riders in the world can decrease the amount of downwards pressure they put on the rear pedal, even they don't pull it up.
It might feel like you are, but you're not.
There have been a few studies on it but I'm failing to find the blog post I read that sums them up nicely without getting too technical.

This is true that they don't but we are talking about those rare fixie moments when you take on something a bit too steep.

That moment you find yourself on a 10%+ gradient in your 51x17 gear going about 5mph and refuse to give up, I can assure you that you HAVE to lift to keep the gear turning over.

JamesB5446

Fair point, but I'd guess those moment are very rare. If not you have bad technique or the wrong gearing.

PedalPedant

JamesB5446 wrote:

Nope. The best riders in the world can decrease the amount of downwards pressure they put on the rear pedal, even they don't pull it up.
It might feel like you are, but you're not.
There have been a few studies on it but I'm failing to find the blog post I read that sums them up nicely without getting too technical.

My understanding is that you can increase your power output by pulling on the upstroke but at a significant drop in efficiency. It's not therefore advised all the time but can be effective to give you a short term boost. When climbing a hill for example.

Dunno if this is too technical or not:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18418807

PP

rubertoe

Clever Pun wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Fixies = Meh

Its not 1912 the freewheel has now been invented as have derailleurs.


I'd love a fixie, i'm just not man enough

I've been riding SS for a couple of days and it feels slower and lazier than riding fixed. The hills feel harder too.
FG DOES feel better than riding with a freewheel.

Barnet Hill on a fixie will put hair on your chest.

It's not Barnet Hill that worries me, i'ts getting from Camden to Finchely (Archway road, Swains Lane, Highgate West and North Hills and up through Hampstead is where it would hurt)

Smashed that on 50-16.. MTFU grit your teeth and pull up like a mofo at the same time as stomping down... you'll get up there

Which Hill though?

PedalPedant

Paul E wrote:

The drive train is, it's exactly the same as the first fixed wheeled bikes save for advances in chains etc but one big sprocket driving a smaller fixed one on the back wheel with no freewheel is exactly the same, that's the anaogy I was making by satying i should strip off modern things like a starter and pnumatic tyres from my car.

Wouldn't removing the gearbox and the clutch be a rather more direct analogy?

FWIW I've never ridden fixed and with my knackered old knees it seems unlikely I ever will.

PP

PedalPedant

JamesB5446 wrote:

Does having a starter motor make your car less efficient? Because having a free wheel will make your bike less efficient.

I'm struggling to see how a freewheel makes the bike less efficient. Once the pawls are engaged I can't see where any extra losses can be incurred.

PP

rjsterry

JamesB5446 wrote:

Nope. The best riders in the world can decrease the amount of downwards pressure they put on the rear pedal, even they don't pull it up.
It might feel like you are, but you're not.
There have been a few studies on it but I'm failing to find the blog post I read that sums them up nicely without getting too technical.

This one just keeps coming back: as someone else has pointed out, you wouldn't want to use the technique for the whole of a long ride, it may not be as efficient, but in no way is it 'not possible'. The muscles are there, and whilst smaller than some of the other major leg muscles, they are more than capable of doing the job. You can prove it by slackening the straps of your shoes off such that you can pull your feet clear of the insoles; you'll find you can still pedal a full stroke without pushing by pulling your feet against the uppers of the shoes. You can also do single leg drills, with one foot unclipped.

jds_1981

Think a better fixed/geared analogy would be an automatic and manual gearbox. Good at different things. Automatic is the future but it just doesn't feel as good as manual

pangolin

JamesB5446 wrote:

Fair point, but I'd guess those moment are very rare. If not you have bad technique or the wrong gearing.

Wrong gearing, or do 95% of your miles on the flat and have to get home over 1 hill in Richmond Park. Like, oh, lots of us.

JamesB5446

Just poor technique then.

jds_1981 wrote:

Think a better fixed/geared analogy would be an automatic and manual gearbox. Good at different things. Automatic is the future but it just doesn't feel as good as manual

Nope, still different gears.
I don't think any car analogy will work.

gtvlusso

Interesting observations here.

I don't think anyone on a Commuter Chat forum can be painted as having perfect technique, as per the book. But some people on here are pretty quick and have been riding a very long time.

As for pulling up on the pedals, I am pretty sure I do this subconsciously on the fixie from the lights. And I know that I pull up when climbing a steep hill, even on my road bike I do this. probably from riding fixed for so long!

How do I know?

As previous post, I used to wear converse trainers with MK half clips - my feet were always breaking loose and pulling away from the pedal on an hill. Since I have used SPD's for the last 5 years on the fixie, being locked to the pedal has been an epiphany of climbing like a b*stard and using both the push and pull as soon as I had the pull up as an option.

bushu

42 x 16t currently, don't really want smaller than 16t freewheel
Do I just keep trying to spin faster or should I try 52t chain wheel :?

Need to re-read all Sheldon's wisdom methinks