43yr old bloke and trying to shift a bit of weight

Raffles

Last thing I want to happen is that I turn into a Keira Knightley type sitting munching on a lettuce leaf

LegendLust

bobones wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

bobones wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Jeez there's some old myths and crap being spouted here.

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit. I mean I could consume just enough Mars Bars to have a calorie deficit but it wouldn't mean I'd shift weight. In fact I'd probably put weight on.

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

Actually, you're the one spouting the myths. It really is this simple: if calories in < calories out you will lose weight. Your line about Mars Bars is proof that you don't know what you're talking about.

The problem is everyone on here is talking about losing weight. As athletes you don't want to be losing 'weight' as this implies losing muscle mass as well. You should instead be thinking about losing 'fat'.

And losing 'fat' and still maintaining health, muscle mass and recovering well from hard sessions isn't as simple as calories in - calories out.

Go and do some research on fat metabolism, hormone balance and the role of insulin in storing fat.

You said "don't count calories and don't worry about a calorie deficit". That is bad advice. You could do all the things you say to try to lose fat and not muscle mass, but at the end of the day, if you don't have a calorie deficit you won't lose weight. You're the one who is complicating it when it really is that simple. Counting calories does not exclude you from eating a well balanced, healthy diet, or even targeting fat loss. However, it will focus your mind on exactly how much you are consuming and will enable you to lose weight at a progressive and sustainable rate.

Really. I would suggest that depriving your body of what it needs when it needs it is bad advice.

I went to see a Sports Nutritionist who is very highly regarded, and not once did he talk to me about counting calories and calorie deficit. (in fact a very well known ex Tour rider now coach doesn't take on any new rider until they've been to see this nutritionist). I got down to my lowest weight ever after seeing him, but more crucially for a cyclist my power to weight ratio was far better - I got my body fat down to 8% and gained a little muscle mass. More importantly I didn't suffer with any niggling colds or illnesses through the season, and recovered fully after each session so I could train harder.

What he told me totally blew my mind and I've been following his guide and advice ever since. It goes against most 'myths' out there and is too complicated for me to explain. Not only that I paid good money to see him, so why should I give all his advice out for free?

If you PM me I can give you his details - you never know, you might not have to count calories again!

paulg99

Raffles wrote:

Im 12 stones 12 pounds and in pretty decent shape,but id love to get right down to 12 stones exactly and am finding it hard. In the spring / summer I can get out with the club 2 or 3 times per week and this keeps weight in check. This time of year the weather is dire and the pounds can creep back on. This leaves weight reduction by diet as a method im going to have to look into as I cant get out cycling as often. My job is boring office type and this definitely doesnt help. Is it best to eat heartily earlier in the day and when it comes to teatime have a small meal and not eat anything after it until breakfast ? Ive never dieted before so im kind of green in this area. Any eating habits or dietary advice you can share to help keep the weight at bay and with a view to weight loss ? If I can get to 12 stones dead then I think hills will be a lot less of a challenge.

How tall are you?

If I was only 12st12lb I'd be chuffed!

I also work in an office and have for most of my working life, and I don't eat breakfast. There just isn't enaough excercise going on for me to burn it off during the day and the cycle part of my commute isn't long enough on the way in. I do tend to eat a main meal at lunchtime in preparation for a longer route home in the evening and then a light'ish tea. What sort of meals are you eating at the moment and what excercise are you getting?

If you eat too many carbs (like me :roll: ), as has been mentioned, without getting the requisite amount of excercise to make use of it then the weight will probably stubbornly remain on you.

Without seeing what you eat and the excercise you are getting it would be impossible to tell you what to try changing.

paulg99

Raffles wrote:

Are carbs so centrally crucial to getting weight down ? I love pasta and would readily use it as cycling fuel. In my minds eye I had first thought "cut down on saturated fat" whereas plenty here are suggesting "cut down on carbs"

I think you lose weight in proportion to how much you need to lose it in that a fat tub will see pounds literally fall off. Im in pretty decent shape so I am finding it more of a challenge to scrape pounds off

No they are not crucial, but you shouldn't overdo them.

Bread in the morning, pasta at lunch followed by potatoes in the evening with not enough excercise will not help you long term.

Protein is far more effective for keeping you fuller and fueled for excercise then carbs (imo).

drlodge

To the OP, I'm similar: 45, was 12/12 in April and now down to about 12/02. Was doing about 100 miles a week and the weight slowly fell off. Now that I'm cycling less in these cold dark evenings, the weight loss has stopped...the trick is to burn more calaories and/or eat less. I'm eating like I always have so I need to do more miles to lose more weight.

Simples.

giant_man

It's about metabolism and age, and as you get older your metabolism changes. When I was 20 I could - and did - eat 3 mars bars every day without gaining weight. Now I'm older weight gain is unfortunately easier, but I've lost two stone in six months just by eating differently. Cut out the crap, eat more veggies and the weight will come off.

t.m.h.n.e.t

LegendLust wrote:

Put simply, Going out riding fasted turns your body's metabolism into consuming fat for fuel. Once back from the ride you then consume the majority of your days carbs (along with protein), this is when your body is crying out for them and won't store them as fat. The rest of the day you then shift your nutrition from carbs to protein and fats.

Losing fat is a lot more complicated than simple calories in - calories out. It's also to do with hormone balance, metabolism and insulin.

I'm burning fat typing this, as you will be when you come to read it. So please don't make statements that you "turn stuff on" because it's simply not true nor accurate.

LegendLust wrote:

Jeez there's some old myths and crap being spouted here.

Not bad at it yourself.

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit. I mean I could consume just enough Mars Bars to have a calorie deficit but it wouldn't mean I'd shift weight. In fact I'd probably put weight on.

So just "eat less" based on a bit of a guess based on thin air and it'll fall off? Why do you refuse to understand how calorie deficits have an important role to play?

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

Tis not. Up to a certain point where energy requirements exceed the bodies ability to provide it, you will always be burning fat. Not quite sure what you know about the human body ( it appears to be very little) but carbohydrates are the absolute preferred fuel for it. Your posts have made it apparent that you are aware of this.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

Types of carbs are important yes. The time you consume them relative to starting and finishing exercise is also something to consider.

Go and do some research on fat metabolism, hormone balance and the role of insulin in storing fat.

I would suggest doing this yourself.

I went to see a Sports Nutritionist who is very highly regarded, and not once did he talk to me about counting calories and calorie deficit. (in fact a very well known ex Tour rider now coach doesn't take on any new rider until they've been to see this nutritionist). I got down to my lowest weight ever after seeing him, but more crucially for a cyclist my power to weight ratio was far better - I got my body fat down to 8% and gained a little muscle mass. More importantly I didn't suffer with any niggling colds or illnesses through the season, and recovered fully after each session so I could train harder.

What he told me totally blew my mind and I've been following his guide and advice ever since. It goes against most 'myths' out there and is too complicated for me to explain. Not only that I paid good money to see him, so why should I give all his advice out for free?

If you PM me I can give you his details - you never know, you might not have to count calories again!

Why am I not surprised that you suddenly clam up after defending your mysterious nutrition expert. Did you get anything but "knowledge" within what you paid for?

This is the second or third thread you've bleated about your expert,but have offered very little by way of information. You do seem to be trying to pass on referrals though.

LegendLust

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Put simply, Going out riding fasted turns your body's metabolism into consuming fat for fuel. Once back from the ride you then consume the majority of your days carbs (along with protein), this is when your body is crying out for them and won't store them as fat. The rest of the day you then shift your nutrition from carbs to protein and fats.

Losing fat is a lot more complicated than simple calories in - calories out. It's also to do with hormone balance, metabolism and insulin.

I'm burning fat typing this, as you will be when you come to read it. So please don't make statements that you "turn stuff on" because it's simply not true nor accurate.

LegendLust wrote:

Jeez there's some old myths and crap being spouted here.

Not bad at it yourself.

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit. I mean I could consume just enough Mars Bars to have a calorie deficit but it wouldn't mean I'd shift weight. In fact I'd probably put weight on.

So just "eat less" based on a bit of a guess based on thin air and it'll fall off? Why do you refuse to understand how calorie deficits have an important role to play?

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

Tis not. Up to a certain point where energy requirements exceed the bodies ability to provide it, you will always be burning fat. Not quite sure what you know about the human body ( it appears to be very little) but carbohydrates are the absolute preferred fuel for it. Your posts have made it apparent that you are aware of this.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

Types of carbs are important yes. The time you consume them relative to starting and finishing exercise is also something to consider.

Go and do some research on fat metabolism, hormone balance and the role of insulin in storing fat.

I would suggest doing this yourself.

I went to see a Sports Nutritionist who is very highly regarded, and not once did he talk to me about counting calories and calorie deficit. (in fact a very well known ex Tour rider now coach doesn't take on any new rider until they've been to see this nutritionist). I got down to my lowest weight ever after seeing him, but more crucially for a cyclist my power to weight ratio was far better - I got my body fat down to 8% and gained a little muscle mass. More importantly I didn't suffer with any niggling colds or illnesses through the season, and recovered fully after each session so I could train harder.

What he told me totally blew my mind and I've been following his guide and advice ever since. It goes against most 'myths' out there and is too complicated for me to explain. Not only that I paid good money to see him, so why should I give all his advice out for free?

If you PM me I can give you his details - you never know, you might not have to count calories again!

Why am I not surprised that you suddenly clam up after defending your mysterious nutrition expert. Did you get anything but "knowledge" within what you paid for?

This is the second or third thread you've bleated about your expert,but have offered very little by way of information. You do seem to be trying to pass on referrals though.

So if I'm talkin bollox where am i going wrong?

t.m.h.n.e.t

LegendLust wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Put simply, Going out riding fasted turns your body's metabolism into consuming fat for fuel. Once back from the ride you then consume the majority of your days carbs (along with protein), this is when your body is crying out for them and won't store them as fat. The rest of the day you then shift your nutrition from carbs to protein and fats.

Losing fat is a lot more complicated than simple calories in - calories out. It's also to do with hormone balance, metabolism and insulin.

I'm burning fat typing this, as you will be when you come to read it. So please don't make statements that you "turn stuff on" because it's simply not true nor accurate.

LegendLust wrote:

Jeez there's some old myths and crap being spouted here.

Not bad at it yourself.

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit. I mean I could consume just enough Mars Bars to have a calorie deficit but it wouldn't mean I'd shift weight. In fact I'd probably put weight on.

So just "eat less" based on a bit of a guess based on thin air and it'll fall off? Why do you refuse to understand how calorie deficits have an important role to play?

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

Tis not. Up to a certain point where energy requirements exceed the bodies ability to provide it, you will always be burning fat. Not quite sure what you know about the human body ( it appears to be very little) but carbohydrates are the absolute preferred fuel for it. Your posts have made it apparent that you are aware of this.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

Types of carbs are important yes. The time you consume them relative to starting and finishing exercise is also something to consider.

Go and do some research on fat metabolism, hormone balance and the role of insulin in storing fat.

I would suggest doing this yourself.

I went to see a Sports Nutritionist who is very highly regarded, and not once did he talk to me about counting calories and calorie deficit. (in fact a very well known ex Tour rider now coach doesn't take on any new rider until they've been to see this nutritionist). I got down to my lowest weight ever after seeing him, but more crucially for a cyclist my power to weight ratio was far better - I got my body fat down to 8% and gained a little muscle mass. More importantly I didn't suffer with any niggling colds or illnesses through the season, and recovered fully after each session so I could train harder.

What he told me totally blew my mind and I've been following his guide and advice ever since. It goes against most 'myths' out there and is too complicated for me to explain. Not only that I paid good money to see him, so why should I give all his advice out for free?

If you PM me I can give you his details - you never know, you might not have to count calories again!

Why am I not surprised that you suddenly clam up after defending your mysterious nutrition expert. Did you get anything but "knowledge" within what you paid for?

This is the second or third thread you've bleated about your expert,but have offered very little by way of information. You do seem to be trying to pass on referrals though.

So if I'm talkin bollox where am i going wrong?

Start with all the myth and bullshit you are spreading. Then end with explaining these

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit.

So do what instead then? Guess? I've lost 5stone within a calorie deficit. Sustainable and rather easy. I also have more energy and thus motivation than i ever did. I am currently still in a calorie deficit and have been without counting a single calorie.

Are you saying I should have just "winged it" and made a complete guess as to my intake? Or have I and the unquantifiable number of people who have lost weight this way,done it entirely wrong? Based on your nutritionist(whom you are incredibly secretive about)

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

As explained above. Simply not true.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

1/3 ain't bad.

Somewhere down the line you'll hit a weight plateau - then to shift more fat you'd need to look at nutrition timing and doing some rides 'fasted'

What has nutrition timing got to do with overall intake which is the real cause of plateau? You know plateau? Where your intake and expenditure are the same - therefore weight is maintained?

Put simply, Going out riding fasted turns your body's metabolism into consuming fat for fuel.

It doesn't.

Once back from the ride you then consume the majority of your days carbs (along with protein), this is when your body is crying out for them and won't store them as fat. The rest of the day you then shift your nutrition from carbs to protein and fats.

Really? Because I'm not fat and I eat carbs all day long. I also never have any problems with insulin resistance or blood sugar levels. That is with a history of Type2 diabetes in the family.

Losing fat is a lot more complicated than simple calories in - calories out. It's also to do with hormone balance, metabolism and insulin.

Oh do elaborate.

LegendLust

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Put simply, Going out riding fasted turns your body's metabolism into consuming fat for fuel. Once back from the ride you then consume the majority of your days carbs (along with protein), this is when your body is crying out for them and won't store them as fat. The rest of the day you then shift your nutrition from carbs to protein and fats.

Losing fat is a lot more complicated than simple calories in - calories out. It's also to do with hormone balance, metabolism and insulin.

I'm burning fat typing this, as you will be when you come to read it. So please don't make statements that you "turn stuff on" because it's simply not true nor accurate.

LegendLust wrote:

Jeez there's some old myths and crap being spouted here.

Not bad at it yourself.

DON'T count calories and don't worry about calorie deficit. I mean I could consume just enough Mars Bars to have a calorie deficit but it wouldn't mean I'd shift weight. In fact I'd probably put weight on.

So just "eat less" based on a bit of a guess based on thin air and it'll fall off? Why do you refuse to understand how calorie deficits have an important role to play?

The only way to burn stored fat is to turn your bodies natural fat metabolism back on. Too much reliance on carbs means your body gets lazy and turns into a sugar burner.

Tis not. Up to a certain point where energy requirements exceed the bodies ability to provide it, you will always be burning fat. Not quite sure what you know about the human body ( it appears to be very little) but carbohydrates are the absolute preferred fuel for it. Your posts have made it apparent that you are aware of this.

You need to be looking at what type of carbs you're eating and when you're eating them. As endurance athletes we do need carbs but the vast majority of cyclists eat too many.

Types of carbs are important yes. The time you consume them relative to starting and finishing exercise is also something to consider.

Go and do some research on fat metabolism, hormone balance and the role of insulin in storing fat.

I would suggest doing this yourself.

I went to see a Sports Nutritionist who is very highly regarded, and not once did he talk to me about counting calories and calorie deficit. (in fact a very well known ex Tour rider now coach doesn't take on any new rider until they've been to see this nutritionist). I got down to my lowest weight ever after seeing him, but more crucially for a cyclist my power to weight ratio was far better - I got my body fat down to 8% and gained a little muscle mass. More importantly I didn't suffer with any niggling colds or illnesses through the season, and recovered fully after each session so I could train harder.

What he told me totally blew my mind and I've been following his guide and advice ever since. It goes against most 'myths' out there and is too complicated for me to explain. Not only that I paid good money to see him, so why should I give all his advice out for free?

If you PM me I can give you his details - you never know, you might not have to count calories again!

Why am I not surprised that you suddenly clam up after defending your mysterious nutrition expert. Did you get anything but "knowledge" within what you paid for?

This is the second or third thread you've bleated about your expert,but have offered very little by way of information. You do seem to be trying to pass on referrals though.

So if I'm talkin bollox where am i going wrong?

Where are people who use calorie deficits wrong?

So you answered a question with a question.

Anyway, have a read of this article. This explains how 'calorie deficit' is complicated and flawed far better than I can. http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.co ... stead.html

t.m.h.n.e.t

LegendLust wrote:

Anyway, have a read of this article. This explains how 'calorie deficit' is complicated and flawed far better than I can. http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.co ... stead.html

First sentence

“Just eat less and move more.”

Based on?

figured if some diet and exercise were good then more must be better. I slashed my calories and upped my workouts and over a period of a few months, I lost a few pounds and then plateaued. So I took my calories down more and added more exercise (by which point I’d officially left “the healthy way” in the dust). And I gained weight. If the math was correct, how could I be eating less calories than a child, exercising like a professional athlete and still be gaining weight? My math didn’t add up.

Standard starvation response. Hog everything possible when food is available and put weight back on.

I’d killed my metabolism. Indeed, I had that medically verified when my doctor told me my thyroid was underfunctioning due to the strain I’d put on it from overexercising

I guess I was right before she confirmed it for me.


Is this meant to be some sort of credible source of something? She,like many before her dove in with no real idea and ultimately paid for it. It's not an example or evidence of "calorie counting" or calorie deficits being a bad thing(based on BMR). It's an example of a complete muppet.

What’s your day job?
A. Shrieking like a harpy. Oh, wait, I don’t get paid for that. I was a teacher for 7 years, both at the university and high school levels. Now I have the most boring job in the known universe: grading SAT essays from home. At least I can say that I know bad writing when I see it… and I see a lot of it. I not-so-secretly wish to be a health and fitness writer though. Feel free to e-mail me and drop a job offer in my lap. Power of positive thinking, people!!

What makes you qualified to give advice?
A. Nothing! It’s liberating, actually

lol?????

uberkraaft

To the OP

As you can see there's a ton of conflicting 'opinion' about how weight loss can best be achieved. There are a lot of myths (fat burning zones, starvation mode & such like) but one thing you can bet on is that you have to consume less calories than you use - I seem to remember it's something like a deficit of 3500kcals for 1lb of fat/weight loss - but I digress, my point i posting is that I was in similar shape to you as far as I can tell. Around 40 (!), 13st, (5ft 10ish), riding 70 miles a week plus some weights. My aim was to lose weight for the hills too! Rather than arguing about whats supposed to work, I thought I'd share what worked for me...

Since September I've been doing 2 days fasting per week after watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9_vGtbjHPQ

I'm down to 11st 11lb, can climb better & have maintained/increased speed & strength. Waist is 4" smaller too so the lycra looks better too - Personally, the idea of restricting everyday is nightmare for me, its too hard! But knowing I just have to be 'strong' on 2 days a week & eat normally the other 5 days, is relatively easy...

Tues & Thursday, I just have black coffee/water/no sugar cordial until as late as I can bear (anything from 2pm onwards) and then I can eat up to about 600kcals until the next day. IMO it's been miraculous. The 'fat' just dropped off - I seem to remember I lost the first half a stone in a fortnight - Honestly, I would've lost more but I've been building muscle at the same time.

Anyway, I can't recommend it highly enough - having tried a good many 'diets' over the years (vegetarian/paleo/Zone) for performance, this has been the best for me - good luck whatever you try! Bear in mind, Winter makes it a lot harder imo, your body seems to want to hang on to as much fat as it can when the weathers cold! :?

M

Frank the tank

What's that saying?

Opinions are like @rseholes................EVERYBODY has one.

I know this is the world wide web but I don't believe there are that many medical/dietry experts on this forum. Most are speaking from their personal experience (like myself). Others are just regurgitating info they've read elsewhere.

The OP author will no doubt take note of what's been said and then do what he likes.

paulg99

Frank the tank wrote:

What's that saying?

Opinions are like @rseholes................EVERYBODY has one.

I know this is the world wide web but I don't believe there are that many medical/dietry experts on this forum. Most are speaking from their personal experience (like myself). Others are just regurgitating info they've read elsewhere.

The OP author will no doubt take note of what's been said and then do what he likes.

+1

We can offer advice on what the OP might try but first need to know what he is eating at the moment and what excercise he is doing. What works for one person might not work for others it'd be up to the OP to decide,

paulg99

Sorry, double post. :oops:

ShutUpLegs

uberkraaft wrote:

Tues & Thursday, I just have black coffee/water/no sugar cordial until as late as I can bear (anything from 2pm onwards) and then I can eat up to about 600kcals until the next day. IMO it's been miraculous. The 'fat' just dropped off - I seem to remember I lost the first half a stone in a fortnight - Honestly, I would've lost more but I've been building muscle at the same time.

uberkraaft

True!