How will World War 3 start?

pb21

Rick Chasey wrote:

People have been prophesising world wars about resources for years and years and they never develop.

Whilst there havent been world wars, there have been wars and if the circumstances are different I think such a war could escalate.

But I don't really know anything!

thegreatdivide

Zombies.

Phil Fouracre

Water, Food or Religion - not sure which order!

Cleat Eastwood

Phil Fouracre wrote:

Water, Food or Religion - not sure which order!

To which I'd add outright ignorance and a frightening fevered intolerance

Gizmo_

thegreatdivide wrote:

Zombies.

Driving Addison Lee taxis.

freddiegrubb

A different view-- not nation v. nation but mankind against the wee beasties, there's more of them than there is of us.Excuse me whilst I climb into my biological suit.

kieranb

Na, no world war of (group of) nation v (group of) nation. Advances in technology will drive mass unemployment dividing the world up into the rich and the poor with little inbetween. Due to these very advances the rich will not even need the poor to create the resourses that they consume (until in previous ages) - most of mankind will be superfluous to the ruling elite. What happens then is anyone's guess. Throw in global warming and population growth for added uncertainty and instability. I think Adam Robert's sci-fi book 'By light alone' gives a good description (ignoring the hair thing).

pinno

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Phil Fouracre wrote:

Water, Food or Religion - not sure which order!

To which I'd add outright ignorance and a frightening fevered intolerance

Hmmm.... Isreal is this tiny strip of land surrounded by Arab nations who either do not recognise it as a state or want to wipe it off the face of the earth. Hamas is a lovely organisation full of fundamentalists who use people as human shields and indiscriminantly fire rockets at no specific targets into Isreal. Hamas do not think that any Isreali should be there at all.
If the Egyptians or the Syrians or the Jordanians gave the slightest crap about Isreal, they would give up some of their land to the Palestinians to alleviate the human pressure on the Lebanon and Gazza. They won't, principally because they use the Palestinians as a lever. They actively maintain and encourage the hotbed of antipathy towards the Isrealis.
Yes, I know that they exist in a contentious area for the religious reasons, yes I know the Isreali's have not behaved well. But if you are an Isreali, you will suffer a certain paranoia, especially when you are on this tiny strip of land that you have turned into Orchards, Vinyards and fertile land* from desert after a the holocaust, with no where else to go. *Something the Arabs seem incapable of doing.
Being a 'soft lefty' in Isreal is not like being a 'lefty' in the UK. Being a lefty there is someone who is a Palestinian sympathiser. If I was an Isreali wondering when the next Cafe bomb, car bomb or rocket was going to go off, I doubt I would react rationally and with any sense of humanity. However, they do. War is an ugly thing and the innocent get caught up and they are spoon fed to the 'holier than thou' West through he media and we say 'bad Isreali's - look at them killing women and children'.
Hamas don't give a monkeys f*ck where the bombs land, as long as they do kill whoever.
The late James Cameron said 'That there were 190Million Arabs bent on its destruction.

On the theme of Empire - The British Empire was benign compared to the current incidious Global Capitalism that obligates people into poverty and slavery.

ilm_zero7

Pinerello 0011 - thats far too simplistic - if Israel was unsupported by the americans and told to get back in its box - ie the land it was given ( no west bank, no Gaza, no Golan heights, no Saini) then would Hamas really have the support it has? I doubt it. but this will go on and on until someone corrects american foreign policy - just like NI !!!

pinno

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Pinerello 0011 - thats far too simplistic - if Israel was unsupported by the americans and told to get back in its box - ie the land it was given ( no west bank, no Gaza, no Golan heights, no Saini) then would Hamas really have the support it has? I doubt it. but this will go on and on until someone corrects american foreign policy - just like NI !!!

And that is idealistic.

Isreal has links to most parts of the Western World. Especially in the US. Of course they are going to have links with them.
Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood for christ sake. That same 'brotherhood' are responsible for the 7/7 bombings and that bomb in Kenya amongst others. How can the West vilify the actions of Muslim extremists when targeted at us and then be supportive towards them in this instance?. Don't be a hypocrit.
3 days before the assasination of the Hamas leader, Hamas had luanched 150 rocketsinto Isreal.

izza

Just like the 100m. With a gun.

finchy

pinarello001 wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Pinerello 0011 - thats far too simplistic - if Israel was unsupported by the americans and told to get back in its box - ie the land it was given ( no west bank, no Gaza, no Golan heights, no Saini) then would Hamas really have the support it has? I doubt it. but this will go on and on until someone corrects american foreign policy - just like NI !!!

And that is idealistic.

Isreal has links to most parts of the Western World. Especially in the US. Of course they are going to have links with them.
Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood for christ sake. That same 'brotherhood' are responsible for the 7/7 bombings and that bomb in Kenya amongst others. How can the West vilify the actions of Muslim extremists when targeted at us and then be supportive towards them in this instance?. Don't be a hypocrit.
3 days before the assasination of the Hamas leader, Hamas had luanched 150 rocketsinto Isreal.

I think that you're missing ILM's point a bit here, which is about why Hamas gets support from Palestinian people. I used to be friends with quite a few Jews and Arabs (including Israelis, Palestinians and Lebanese) when I was at university and the biggest problem seems to be mutual distrust. The Jews told me that they really wanted peace but the Muslims would never give it to them. The Muslims told me that they wanted peace but the Jews wanted to destroy them.

Cleat Eastwood

pinarello001 wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Pinerello 0011 - thats far too simplistic - if Israel was unsupported by the americans and told to get back in its box - ie the land it was given ( no west bank, no Gaza, no Golan heights, no Saini) then would Hamas really have the support it has? I doubt it. but this will go on and on until someone corrects american foreign policy - just like NI !!!

And that is idealistic.

Isreal has links to most parts of the Western World. Especially in the US. Of course they are going to have links with them.
Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood for christ sake. That same 'brotherhood' are responsible for the 7/7 bombings and that bomb in Kenya amongst others. How can the West vilify the actions of Muslim extremists when targeted at us and then be supportive towards them in this instance?. Don't be a hypocrit.
3 days before the assasination of the Hamas leader, Hamas had luanched 150 rocketsinto Isreal.

Ah but also Jabari had just brokered a limited ceasefire through the auspices of egypt. His assassination was clearly meant to be inflammatory and clearly not in the interest of the ultra right Israeli govt.

I agree with what you say about Israel and it's cultural/historic connections with the west - but when an general in the IDF calls for the genocide of a people you do have to question events. Have a look at the comments of Gilad Sharon over the weekend - I dont think you'll find a better definition of insanity.

FWIW I think its all a test of the Iron Dome defences prior to an attack on Iran.

pinno

If, and that is a big word 'IF'. If the Palestinians chose no to be fuelled by Arab interests and chose not to be controlled/lead by Hamas, I do not think that the situation would be so volatile. Its easy to stir a race of people up through ideas of vengeance and 'protection'.
The problem with the Palestinians is that they do not have a proper democracy. It is in the interest of Hamas and sympathisers of the destruction of Isreal not to have one. So its a non-democratic state vs a modern democratic state.
As long as Isreal are directly, covertly and indirectly threatened by the overwhelming masses surrounding them, they will feel that they have to take drastic means to protect their interests. Maybe the idea of testing the Dome defence system is in advance of military action is a credible theory as Iran has and have vowed to 'wipe Isreal off the face of the earth'. If I was an Isreali (in the light of Iranian nuclear developments) I would be very fearful of such extremism and it would be easy for me to vote for a right wing govt.
Therein lies a Western contradiction - Goerge dubblya said "you are either with us or against us". We know he is an idiot but what was most damaging about the consequences of that statement was that he destroyed the tripartite talks that Clinton had brokered and was to an extent, working. Maybe that is the seed of the current conflict and maybe he just threw Isreal back into the frying pan.

Redhog14

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

FWIW I think its all a test of the Iron Dome defences prior to an attack on Iran.

Strategic thinking Cleat. Extra merit points.

DesB3rd

“Having worked in the Armed Forces and seen them decimated by budget cuts to the point we are impossibly stretched. I reckon future wars will be decided by who runs out of money first.”

There were similar theories floated in the late 19th/early 20thC – the vast new industrial armies would expend money, consume munitions & deal death so rapidly that anything but a short lived trial of strength would be untenable. It’s an appealing logic...


Forget the prolitariat, too lumpen both by the English & German meaning. If you can't aggitiate a fellow on a full stomach what hope have you with a fellow whose stomach is 6" below hs elasticated waist band - the bread has meat in the middle and circuses come through a wire - job done.

My guess would be less war, more failure of government with whole regions slipping into a warlord/tribal quasi-chaos, like northern Mexico or Somalia but more expansive and possibly linked to environmental degradation in the developing world. The process flows outwards, placing unbearable pressures on adjecent nations, exposing their own failing economies, instabilities & internal conflicts, until such time as suitably powerful & homogenous nations can act as breakwaters. Possibly throw in some neo-colonialism, but more on the EIC model, companies in the stable regions of the world buying monopolies with the petty rulers of the less fortunate zones - lots of business ventures with ethical norms that would make Leopold II queasy. Oh, and competition between the more resilent states, intervention into the failed states viewed with mutual suspicion, fueling proxy conflicts. Solid distopian stuff.

charles-bh

I don't think the next war will be an ideology war, I think it will be a resource war, started by a big landgrab by two desperate powers.

I also don't think it will be any time soon thankfully so for me it's not something I'd choose to dwell on.

As for Iran, i think the majority of the Iranian people aren't represented by their leader. They'd protest but over there the slightest whiff of protest and you get punished so it's not an option.

bearfraser

WW3:- as every one has allready said it will be a mix of all factors-Zionists/Chinese/Iranians/USA/Jihadists Etc.Etc.and will probably eventually be down to who has any Oil / Water left to feed the everburgeoning Paracitical Race the "Human" who has completely F####d and pillaged the world.
At least it will provide some form of population control

Cleat Eastwood

bearfraser wrote:

WW3:- as every one has allready said it will be a mix of all factors-Zionists/Chinese/Iranians/USA/Jihadists Etc.Etc.and will probably eventually be down to who has any Oil / Water left to feed the everburgeoning Paracitical Race the "Human" who has completely F####d and pillaged the world.
At least it will provide some form of population control

And a happy Xmas to you too.

GiantMike

North Korea. Nukey Missile strike. 2014. Mark my words*.








*not that I'll be around to gloat