Cycle Hatred

ChrisG82

I thought you might be interested in reading a blog I wrote this week. It has been featured on one or two other bike websites and I think generates some food for thought and discussion on the of ignorance drivers towards cyclists.
Hope you like it.
http://tracksideviews.com/2012/11/15/cycle-hatred/

Chris

diy

I read your article, sorry I skipped bits, due to my attention span on a saturday morning. A couple of points..
Cyclists do inconvenience motorists and there is a lot we can do to reduce the impact of that. A bit of positive courtesy to those who give us room. I'm a motorcyclist too and when I wave to say thanks to drivers who have moved over to let me filter, its amazing how you get a Mexican wave as others see and move. Second, a bunch of plod in a van are not the best to advise on matters of liability. That accident was probably 50/50. You are required to look before turning. An indication means nothing. When plod say "you did nothing wrong" they are making a judgment that while you failed to look properly it was not sufficiently bad to be worth reporting for careless driving.

As a road user group we do seem to suffer from a holier than thou attitude:
Its ok for us to ride in close groups, too close to stop safely, but not ok for drivers to pass without giving us much space.
Its ok for us to jump reds if nothing is coming, but not ok for drivers to speed if its safe
Its ok for us slow cars down but not ok if they drive in optional cycle lanes.

Generally its better to see people as humans, assume they will make mistakes and try to be as courteous as possible to everyone.

Cyclists campaigning for lower speed limits, more road humps, speed cameras and other anti car strategies does us no help either.

tiredofwhiners

diy wrote:

Cyclists do inconvenience motorists

Therein lies the entire issue.

Cyclists do not inconvenience motorists any more than having another car in front. You don't see cars trying to ram the car in front of them off the road 'because he is inconveniencing me' because there are consequences to such an act. If the same were true for cyclists, then car drivers would learn that the road is there to be shared and not a first class-second class citizen situation.

But like all things, the majority of drivers are good, law abiding and considerate and the majority of cyclists equally so. Its always the fringe lunatics in each mode of transport that give their compadres a bad name and it really doesn't help when you automatically adopt the victim mentality and start from the premise that cyclists 'inconvenience' motorists.

Corporate Camper

I think you're wrong there. I agree that cyclists (like me) do inconvenience motorists to some extent, so do tractors, horses, pedestrians in the road etc. I live in the country (right on Sustrans route 51) and it's often very difficult to overtake cyclists or groups of cyclists, especially at the weekends. Of course, I don't mind; I'll check out the bikes (and on a good day, Lycra clad chicks) before carrying on my merry way, but I've seen other drivers getting frustrated.

Artful_Codger

I see the points you are making. I have to drive more than I get to cycle. I wish it was the other way around, and may be it will be one day soon, but for now I get to observe cycle-motor interactions a lot from the driver's seat. I know this won't be popular, but my impression is that problems arise more often as a result of actions that cyclists can and should avoid.

1. Many cyclists (I.e., not a small minority) behave like pedestrians who can accelerate and move a lot faster. Opportunism modelled on pedestrians makes cyclists dangerous and unexpected road hazards for drivers (and footpath hazards for pedestrians). What's worse, many of these cyclists believe there is nothing wrong with piling on this extra cognitive load on drivers. Why is there less responsibility on a filtering cyclist to check for a right-turn signal? The police officers in your case know what they are talking about. They see endless cases of cyclists leaving it to others to find a way of giving them an uninterrupted passage.

2. Much of the above arises out of cyclists' unwillingness or inability to dismount and stop in the interest of safety and cooperation with drivers. This applies at lights, other busy junctions, and filtering situations that are too tight to be comfortable for all parties. It is really annoying to share the road with vehicle users who you think will prioritise avoiding a stop/dismount over a safe and predictable passage. This is mostly just lazy cycling, and cyclists who deny this are in denial. Switch even briefly to a mode of riding that indicates to drivers that you are prepared to voluntarily stop and dismount as needed, and not just as a last resort, and watch the cooperation improve.

3. Many cyclists give motorists a clear impression that they are leaving the lion's share of the traffic monitoring work to them. Why on earth are people riding with headphones plugged into their ears and cables clearly visible? You could argue that drivers have radios and phones on the go, but they also have copious mirrors and can use vision as the sole means to monitor traffic. Most cyclists don't have any mirrors, or enough coverage or time to check if they do. So, blocked hearing tells the motorist that the cyclist has decided not to take some of the responsibility that they expect the driver to take. The terminal case of this is sight of a kid in a hoodie on a jump bike who is also texting or whatever while on the road.

4. Related to the reluctance to stop and dismount is the prospect of weaving on and off bits of surface to which motorists are restricted.

5. Many cyclists do not wave or nod to acknowledge an act of courtesy by a motorist. This is something motorcyclists almost always do. All it takes is a quick nod or a few straightened fingers.


I could go on a bit, but I won't. I believe there should be a mandatory code drawn up for cyclists and they should be fined when they violate it. At the same time, driver training should add much more on spotting cyclists and coexisting with them.

Phil Fouracre

Great - makes a change to find some sensible comments, rather than soap box rants. Yes, we are all human, fallible etc however we travel. Common sense and a bit of courtesy go a very long way.

speshsteve

diy wrote:

I read your article, sorry I skipped bits, due to my attention span on a saturday morning. A couple of points..
Cyclists do inconvenience motorists and there is a lot we can do to reduce the impact of that. A bit of positive courtesy to those who give us room. I'm a motorcyclist too and when I wave to say thanks to drivers who have moved over to let me filter, its amazing how you get a Mexican wave as others see and move. Second, a bunch of plod in a van are not the best to advise on matters of liability. That accident was probably 50/50. You are required to look before turning. An indication means nothing. When plod say "you did nothing wrong" they are making a judgment that while you failed to look properly it was not sufficiently bad to be worth reporting for careless driving.

As a road user group we do seem to suffer from a holier than thou attitude:
Its ok for us to ride in close groups, too close to stop safely, but not ok for drivers to pass without giving us much space.
Its ok for us to jump reds if nothing is coming, but not ok for drivers to speed if its safe
Its ok for us slow cars down but not ok if they drive in optional cycle lanes.

Generally its better to see people as humans, assume they will make mistakes and try to be as courteous as possible to everyone.

Cyclists campaigning for lower speed limits, more road humps, speed cameras and other anti car strategies does us no help either.

you bang on the money with the above, could not agree more

Steve

andi1363

The hatred towards cyclists is actually their focus for self loathing so try to feel sorry for them eh!

Mettan

andi1363 wrote:

The hatred towards cyclists is actually their focus for self loathing so try to feel sorry for them eh!

Very true - I think 'envy' creeps into it a bit aswell for some of them.

Hoopdriver

Yes, I think we enjoy an open road freedom that advertisements and Route 66 nostalgia suggests should be there for motorists, but is not - and they resent us for that. They are bogged in traffic, subject to all kinds of taxes, fees and imposts, held over barrels on petrol pries, MOTS, get creamed on parking fees and fines, and their progress monitored by speed cameras.

THey see a cyclist spin through a red light - carefree as you please - and it all boils over.

nick1972

I'm both a cyclist and a driver. I think both parties need to show each other respect. We all have to share the same roads and learn to coexist.

Frank the tank

tiredofwhiners wrote:

diy wrote:

Cyclists do inconvenience motorists

Therein lies the entire issue.

Cyclists do not inconvenience motorists any more than having another car in front. You don't see cars trying to ram the car in front of them off the road 'because he is inconveniencing me' because there are consequences to such an act. If the same were true for cyclists, then car drivers would learn that the road is there to be shared and not a first class-second class citizen situation.

But like all things, the majority of drivers are good, law abiding and considerate and the majority of cyclists equally so. Its always the fringe lunatics in each mode of transport that give their compadres a bad name and it really doesn't help when you automatically adopt the victim mentality and start from the premise that cyclists 'inconvenience' motorists.

Very seldom agree with you tiredofwhiners but you've hit the nail on the head there.

pete_s

diy wrote:

I read your article, sorry I skipped bits, due to my attention span on a saturday morning. A couple of points..
Cyclists do inconvenience motorists and there is a lot we can do to reduce the impact of that.

A car is one the most privileged and perosnalised form of transport ever made, with an infrastucture built specifically for it made possible by a large amount of money. Never has there been a time when it is more convenient to be able to drive a car. A cyclist is inconvenienced much more by the sub-standard facilities and lack there of.

diy wrote:

As a road user group we do seem to suffer from a holier than thou attitude:
Its ok for us to ride in close groups, too close to stop safely, but not ok for drivers to pass without giving us much space.
Its ok for us to jump reds if nothing is coming, but not ok for drivers to speed if its safe
Its ok for us slow cars down but not ok if they drive in optional cycle lanes.

You can't clump the bad behaviour of a small minority of cyclists and load the reponsibility onto the whole group. Just as not all drivers are drunk, texting on phones or applying make-up.

diy wrote:

Cyclists campaigning for lower speed limits, more road humps, speed cameras and other anti car strategies does us no help either.

Why not? We've allowed planners to dominate our urban areas with roads and car facilities. Cyclists aren't people who are just clad in lycra who ride in a fast peloton on a Saturday morning. Cyclists are me, you, children on the way to school, the commuter travelling to work, elderly people popping to the shops for milk and a family enjoying themselves on a Sunday afternoon. That's not the end of it though, is it? Pedestrians need to cross roads just like joggers, people on skates and, probably most importantly, people who are disabled.

All of these people are vulnerable from vehicles, who if hit by a car, will always come off much worse than the driver of the car.

butcher of bakersfield

I'm inconvenienced by other road users on a daily basis. Usually cars. Given a clear run I'd be at work within 20 minutes. Some days it could take an hour because a bunch of selfish b******ds, like myself, also want to use their luxurious motor vehicles on the same road as me. They form huge queues, and all I can do is sit there and listen to sh**e on the radio and gaze around at other cars. It's even worse on the way home, because you're then eating into my play time...

On the other side of the coin, I can't say I've ever been truly inconvenienced by cyclists in 15 years of driving. Sometimes I need to sit and wait for a few seconds. Once or twice (again, in 15 years), I've had to wait a couple of minutes (but they were travelling a decent speed anyway). In reality, none of these occurrences have had any noticable impact on my overall journey time.

Cyclists campaigning for lower speed limits, more road humps, speed cameras and other anti car strategies does us no help either.

These aren't anti-car. Speed cameras and humps are there to enforce the law. And cars can still be very much enjoyed greatly within the confines of our speed limits, which help to save lives.....they are pro-people. An advantage to everyone. Except the humps - they are the work of the devil, speaking as a driver and a cyclist (but these are put there because a minority of bad drivers...not cyclists).

It's the perceptions of cycling that are all wrong. A lack of understanding that breeds contempt. Yes, there are a minority of rogue cyclists, but they exist in all walks of life, and are not an excuse for any kind of hatred. Neither will they be stamped out.

There needs to be a shift in general attitudes.

DavidJB

Thought this was about that twitter account @cyclehatred who re-tweets all the angry tweets about cyclists...great read if you want to get your blood boiling!

neeb

One thing that often gets left out of these debates is the fact that cyclists are much, much more vulnerable than drivers on the road, while the danger to cyclists comes almost entirely from having to share the road with motorised traffic. Cars are a massive danger to cyclists, but cyclists are hardly (and only ever indirectly) dangerous to drivers. Add to that, as pete_s has pointed out, that the infrastructure is designed around cars rather than around cyclists and other road users and that cyclists are greatly outnumbered, and it's hardly surprising that a lot of cyclists feel victimised and self-righteous.

Of course there are idiot cyclists as well as idiot drivers and mutual respect has to be encouraged, but that does need to be put in the context of the fact that at the end of the day we are living in a completely insane world where cars are seen as a sensible way of moving around urban areas, with all of the associated problems of accidents, pollution, congestion and health problems associated with lack of physical activity, and that this situation is maintained by big business, governments and special interest groups just to keep the whole petrochemically-fuelled world economy "growing" indefinitely, when in fact this is clearly completely unsustainable in the long term...

Just because you are self-righteous doesn't mean you aren't right..

AchillesLeftKnee

diy wrote:

I'm a motorcyclist too...

Generally its better to see people as humans, assume they will make mistakes and try to be as courteous as possible to everyone.

Having also spent a lot of time on two wheels with an engine betwixt, that's a point of view I share 100%. It doesn't, IMHO, take much exposure to motorcycling on the road to leave one in no doubt that "illegal = dangerous, legal = safe" is a load of bolleaux, that common sense, courtessy, and appreciation of human failings are the route to safety, and that relying on being "in the right" as a safety mechanism isn't a luxury available to those in a position where "dead but right" is a distinct possibility.

BigJimmyB

One thing that I've seen, thought and talked about lately is the fact that nobody has got time for anyone else, in many situations.

If I'm driving at 70, there's a good chance there'll be someone behind me wanting to go faster. If the average A road journey is even as much as 20 miles, if they manage to do 80 over that distance, they'll get there 2 minutes sooner. Is it worth it?

In a similar vein, I've followed people in the car who have gone to ridiculous (and dangerous) lengths to overtake cyclists, only to pull over to park/shop/etc a mile down the road. Again, saving all of 2 mins.

Too many people see everyone else as being in THEIR way, with no thought for anyone else. THEM, THEIR journey etc are all that count, and F*** everyone else.

That, to me is the problem.

Rodrego Hernandez

Nick1972 wrote:

I'm both a cyclist and a driver. I think both parties need to show each other respect. We all have to share the same roads and learn to coexist.

This sums the problem up nicely. Drivers need to see cyclists as a fellow road user and be patient where appropriate. Cyclists need to be considerate and where possible, aid traffic flow by letting queued traffic pass and generally be seen as a considerate road user.

There's no point being in the right if you're under a car.