4-pot brakes?

Ghostt

Hello all

Looking at getting some new brakes after killing my RX's. So far looking at:

Hope M2/M4 Evo
Shimano XT/ZEE
Avid XO Trail/Code R

Riding a lot more downhill and planning to return to the Alps next summer, so thinking the increased stopping power and heat resistance of the four-pots would be better, for a marginal weight gain but as I'm not a weight weenie not actually bothered!

So, anyone have any experience of the above brakes, or any others worth looking at? Am I barking up the right tree with 4 pots, or should I stick to plain old 2 pots?

nicklouse

the original Codes were just stupid.

Hope. over priced under powered.

still more than happy with my The Ones.

dusk

I've got XT and they're great but if you feel you'll need a little more power then get ZEE, Shimano brakes are pretty unbeatable right now when it comes to reliabilty, price and power

The Rookie

XT aren't 4 pots surely?
ZEE are getting a good rep for the performance of Saint at lower cost.

RIKO

Run the Hope Tech V2's really good for power and very controllable plus the legendary Hope support and spares availability. The new V4's will be better again I suspect.

cooldad

RIKO wrote:

Run the Hope Tech V2's really good for power and very controllable plus the legendary Hope support and spares availability. The new V4's will be better again I suspect.

They need it!

RIKO

Couldn't disagree more all the Hope brakes I've owned have been rock solid reliable.

Northwind

Then how do you know about the customer support and spares availability?

TBH, the reason companies make 4-pot pushiron brakes is the same reason motorbikes sometimes come with 6-pot brakes... It's so they can put "2 more pots than everyone else!" in the marketing. Bugger all benefit to it, and some disadvantages.

The Rookie

There is a big benefit in terms of consistency of contact pressure across the pad, especially when done properly like Shimano (Saint and Zee) do with a smaller diameter leading pot (which counteracts the leading edge effect all brake pads/shoes exhibit), Saint and XT use basically the same lever, yet compare the brake torque results (on here) and they are a fair way apart, though Saint do weigh about 60g more per caliper. So I call your bugger all benefit as BS I'm afraid.
Dyno plots
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466
Saint is The top performer (dashed light blue), XT mid table.

EH_Rob

The Beginner wrote:

when done properly

That's the key statement.

I have some Hope M4s - crap compared to new XTs.

mrmonkfinger

What's not been done properly about hope m4s?


I have original code callipers - quite like them personally (although a pig to service).

The Rookie

I don't know, but look at the dyno plot and how pants they are......at the top end they are below the Tektro Auriga's for goodness sakes!

Northwind

The Beginner wrote:

Saint and XT use basically the same lever, yet compare the brake torque results (on here) and they are a fair way apart, though Saint do weigh about 60g more per caliper. So I call your bugger all benefit as BS I'm afraid.

Er, except that there's other ways to generate that difference other than adding piston- changing the surface area of the piston/pistons changes the character of the power delivery in much the same way regardless of the number of pistons. See- Formula, Avid, Brembo, Tokico.

You sound like you've swallowed a press release

The Rookie

Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this, the pads are the self same as current XT, so clearly the 4 pistons done properly offer a benefit...... sounds like you swallowed too many cynical pills.

Northwind

The Beginner wrote:

Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this

Ah, so you've not actually used them then?

EH_Rob

mrmonkfinger wrote:

What's not been done properly about hope m4s?


I have original code callipers - quite like them personally (although a pig to service).

I don't know either, I just know the ones I have aren't very good.

Ghostt

Interesting, thanks for the replies.

The Beginner wrote:

Dyno plots
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466
Saint is The top performer (dashed light blue), XT mid table.

Nice link, was posted in 2010 though so different models to what's out now - e.g. are the Hope brakes the EVO models? Quite tempted by the Hopes, out of the guys I was riding in the Alps with the only brakes that didn't have problems were a set of V2s.

Having said all of that, I'd be a fool to not go Shimano, seem to be outperforming everything and a doddle to service. Still not sure whether or not to go 4 pots, probably will go for whatever's cheaper and run big rotors when I need to!

rockmonkeysc

Not 4 pots but I'm finding Avid X0 very good for downhill. More reliable than standard Elixirs and easier to bleed. Even on long, fast DH tracks like Cwmcarn heat doesn't seem to be a problem.
Personally I don't like the Saint brakes, they are either on or off with not a lot of feel. I expect Zee are similar.

The Rookie

Northwind wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this

Ah, so you've not actually used them then?

No......are you saying the lever travel is noticeably longer then?

Northwind

The Beginner wrote:

No......are you saying the lever travel is noticeably longer then?

Yep.

lawman

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Not 4 pots but I'm finding Avid X0 very good for downhill. More reliable than standard Elixirs and easier to bleed. Even on long, fast DH tracks like Cwmcarn heat doesn't seem to be a problem.
Personally I don't like the Saint brakes, they are either on or off with not a lot of feel. I expect Zee are similar.[/quote}

Presuming you must mean older saints? A pair of the new ones I tried the other day felt very similar to my Xt's just with a lot more power. And for what its worth, a fair few of us run shimano brakes at uni, even for DH, xt, slx and now saint and they are brilliant.

rockmonkeysc

It was 2011 & 2012 Saint brakes I tried, didn't like either. The 2012 have a bit more modulation but still lack feel.