flashing lights - illegal - WTF !

chasrock

I was flagged down my a motorist tonight and asked to turn off my flashing lights as they are illegal! I told him they are not, but he was insistant.
If you meet a twit like him the Highway Code says :
"At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp."

rubertoe

Two words.

D ick Head

nacnudsmada

The guy that stopped you must have a very for filling life!

Ginjafro

You could also attach flashing lights to yourself and not the bike, side stepping any legal issues. However, the bloke was still a d1ck.

bennett_346

What a twat.

Kieran_Burns

bennett_346 wrote:

What a fool.

Now you didn't actually say fool there did you?

The Ors

So, did you switch them off?

bennett_346

Kieran_Burns wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

What a fool.

Now you didn't actually say fool there did you?

Apparently not! :!:

nicklouse

flashing lights WERE not legal. so i would say the car diver had not read the Highway code recently.
cant remember when it changed.

jimothy78

I must say that legallity asside, I think sometimes people need to engage a little common sense; I have seen some folks riding with ultra-bright front lights in flashing mode and aimed at eye-level for oncoming drivers. Might be perfectly legal and whatnot, but it's not going to win you any friends on the road, is it?
(Not aimed at original poster, just a general remark)

alfablue

I think flashing lights are essential when commuting, particularly to alert drivers emerging from roads on the left. When not using a flasher, every such junction is a lottery. With a flasher, invariably they don't pull out. They also alert dozy (or texting) pedestrians that would otherwise step off the kerb infront of you.

I do agree with Jimothy's point above, the flasher needs to be aimed correctly, and not too powerful. In light 8) of this, I am looking for a suitable flasher, perhaps 100 / 120 lumens. I have a Lezyne Femto (only 15 lumens, not enough) and a Fenix L2D (180 Lumens) too much, and some 502b T6 torches (way too much). Ideally I would like a small single AA torch with an efficient emitter but with a modest output and good run time, any suggestions?

Edit: I think I will post the second paragraph on The big LIGHTS thread 2011-2012 as it is probably more appropriate there.

zx6man

I have both a flasher and a solid light front and back. May as well have the best of both worlds and more is better when it comes to being seen at night.

inkz

Doesn't matter if they are legal or not, don't people anything better to do with their time?

mouth

I use flashers purely to save battery

chris_bass

The RVLR now allows a flashing light to be attached to a bike if it
(a) emits a minimum light output of four candela; and,
(b) flashes at an equal and constant rate of between 60 and 240 flashes per minute.
To summarise: a not-too-bright steady pulsing LED is fine – out goes your Nightrider strobe.

depending on how many times per minute your lights flash then they could be illegal!

Ginjafro

All this talk about flashing lights has brought up a "flashing" lights advert banner on this thread. Some look really cool and cheap, brilliant!

The Rookie

All I've got is a John Lewis ad!

Obviously the driver was out of date, although not legal and being illegal are not the same thing (you always could have a flashing light as long as you had a solid to comply with the RVLR as well).

Ouija

Ginjafro wrote:

All this talk about flashing lights has brought up a "flashing" lights advert banner on this thread. Some look really cool and cheap, brilliant!

A man who's obviously never heard of Ad blocking plugins or NoScript.

Headhuunter

I wouldn't have even stopped... I don't stop for random motorists flagging me down by the side of the road, they could be anyone and you have to be careful in the badlands of SE London!

anton1r

Not illegal at all in the slightest. But do flashing lights annoy the heck out of anyone else or is that just me?!

Also does anyone else find it harder to judge the distance to the flashing lights rather than solid lights?

Ginjafro

anton1r wrote:

Not illegal at all in the slightest. But do flashing lights annoy the heck out of anyone else or is that just me?!

Also does anyone else find it harder to judge the distance to the flashing lights rather than solid lights?

Possibly, but I use flashing lights in addition to steady lights and set a distance apart so they can be clearly distinguished and give others a better chance to see me, judge my speed and distance. I also assume other road users are completely blind and stupid so don't rely on them to totally prevent lunatics from trying to kill me...

alfablue

anton1r wrote:

Also does anyone else find it harder to judge the distance to the flashing lights rather than solid lights?

Bunkum! Just drive / cycle within the limits that you can judge! Its not a race you know, and very few people died because a car couldn't go as fast as the driver wanted, whereas a lot died because they did! :roll:

anton1r

alfablue wrote:

anton1r wrote:

Also does anyone else find it harder to judge the distance to the flashing lights rather than solid lights?

Bunkum! Just drive / cycle within the limits that you can judge! Its not a race you know, and very few people died because a car couldn't go as fast as the driver wanted, whereas a lot died because they did! :roll:

:?: Open to the floor :?:

Ok lets remove the bike/car/motorbike/trike/lorry/spaceship factor from this and reference them as vehicles!

If I'm stationary in my vehicle and I'm trying to work out how far away two approaching vehicle are one with only a flashing light and one with only a solid light.

Which one's speed of approach and current distance is it easier to judge? or are both the same?

OP apologies for the thread hijack

Aerozine50

SImply Quote the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations Act of October the 23rd 2005 in a rather convincing Kryten / Arnold J Rimmer Space Corps accent and tell that moronic muppet of a Richard Head to be on his merry way.

pastryboy

You could have pointed out that Boris bikes have flashing lights which would suggest they're not illegal.

I have gone from flashing light to single solid large beam. Blinking light says cyclist, solid light and in that split second they might think moped/motorbike. Cyclists are assumed to be slower and more likely to get pulled out on.

That's my theory anyway.

alfablue

anton1r wrote:

alfablue wrote:

anton1r wrote:

Also does anyone else find it harder to judge the distance to the flashing lights rather than solid lights?

Bunkum! Just drive / cycle within the limits that you can judge! Its not a race you know, and very few people died because a car couldn't go as fast as the driver wanted, whereas a lot died because they did! :roll:

:?: Open to the floor :?:

Ok lets remove the bike/car/motorbike/trike/lorry/spaceship factor from this and reference them as vehicles!

If I'm stationary in my vehicle and I'm trying to work out how far away two approaching vehicle are one with only a flashing light and one with only a solid light.

Which one's speed of approach and current distance is it easier to judge? or are both the same?

OP apologies for the thread hijack

Okay, I generalised a bit when I said bunkum, I agree that a fixed light, or more particularly two, give a better reference to distance, however I sail yachts, and the experience at night is that there may be many fixed steady lights to see (as well as flashing lights) and one doesn't have a clue whether they are 10 metres away or 10miles (sorry to mix units). (Of course we navigate using charts, taking fixes, and have the backup of the chart plotter, and by making sure we identify each light and buoy and we should know where we are). Also, lights onshore that are nothing to do with navigation, often muddy the waters.

On the roads a fast flashing light pretty reliably says "cyclist" (I take the point that pastryboy makes, it is worth thinking about). There is little confusion. All other lights except emergency services, and amber flashing lights, will be steady, and mean motor vehicles.

So I am saying its bunkum, because people argue the distance thing, whereas I would say, if you know there is a bicycle in poximity, go carefully and slowly until you can clearly see where it is, rather than be frustrated that you can't speed along your merry way because you are unsure how far away it is. Bicycle lighting should be about facilitating due care and attention, rather than facilitating mororists going as fast as they can. I do not like or accept the mindset that many motorists (and unfortunately some cyclists have) that car is king and the role of roads is to facilitate the fastest journeys possible.

Along the same lines, I think the last thing we should do is to try and reduce congestion by building roads. Congestion is about the only deterrent against speeding (and driving). Enforcement doesn't work or even happen, and the motoring public need to accept that road travel is and will be slower than in the past, and will keep getting slower.

Rant over

ps, I am a driver, reluctantly.

Muffintop

Re flashing lights vs constant lights - I'd've thought a flashing light would draw the eye more readily rather than a constant light particuarly in dark or foggy conditions - where you are needing others to notice you, other than you not being able to see others.

Incidentally, there's a cyclist who does my route who has so many flashing red lights on his back pack he looks like he's smuggling Rudolfs. I've always thought if he lined them up nicely he'd look like a cycling disco stegosarus.

Mx

raymondo60

A couple of years ago I was stopped while riding home in the dark by a Motorcycle Traffic Cop. He was very polite and civil, but informed me that it is (was?) a legal requirement to have a 'solid' light front and back. He said my 'flashing' rear light was perfectly acceptable as long as it was combined with a non-flashing light - the same for the front. Since then I've always had two rear lights - one 'on' and one 'flashing', but was he correct?

bompington

Raymondo60 wrote:

A couple of years ago I was stopped while riding home in the dark by a Motorcycle Traffic Cop. He was very polite and civil, but informed me that it is (was?) a legal requirement to have a 'solid' light front and back. He said my 'flashing' rear light was perfectly acceptable as long as it was combined with a non-flashing light - the same for the front. Since then I've always had two rear lights - one 'on' and one 'flashing', but was he correct?

He was correct until a few years ago, I'm guessing the 2005 act quoted above might be when it changed. Nowadays it is absolutely the case that flashing lights are legal.

pastryboy

Boris bike = flashing only and I can't imagine those aren't legal.

alfablue

bompington wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

A couple of years ago I was stopped while riding home in the dark by a Motorcycle Traffic Cop. He was very polite and civil, but informed me that it is (was?) a legal requirement to have a 'solid' light front and back. He said my 'flashing' rear light was perfectly acceptable as long as it was combined with a non-flashing light - the same for the front. Since then I've always had two rear lights - one 'on' and one 'flashing', but was he correct?

He was correct until a few years ago, I'm guessing the 2005 act quoted above might be when it changed. Nowadays it is absolutely the case that flashing lights are legal.

Flashing lights are not illegal, but they are not in themselves, legal.

To be legal, if a flashing light has a steady mode then it must comply (and be physically marked with) the relevant British Standard. A light that performs to the BS but has not got the mark, will not be a legal light.

A flashing light with no steady mode is legal (but most, if not all I have come across do have a steady mode :? ) as long as it flashes between 1 and 4 times per second and is at least 4 candela.

So you can have a flashing light front or rear. But for any lights that are not flashing, or have a steady mode, they must be BS marked (or EU equivalent).

Very few manufacturers get their lights BS tested, in fact the only BS approved light I know of is the Cateye TL-AU100 BS Rear Light. (Some like Smart say their lights meet the BS, but that doesn't count as BS approved).

So, none of my lights are illegal, but none are legal either!

Front Lamp

One is required, showing a white light, positioned centrally or offside, up to 1500mm from the ground, aligned towards and visible from the front. If capable of emitting a steady light, it must be marked as conforming to BS6102/3 or an equivalent EC standard.

If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least 4 candela.

Rear Lamp

One is required, to show a red light, positioned centrally or offside, between 350mm and 1500mm from the ground, at or near the rear, aligned towards and visible from behind. If capable of emitting a steady light it must be marked as conforming to BS3648, or BS6102/3, or an equivalent EC standard.

If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least 4 candela.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/ ... egulations