Cervelo R5 v Cannondale Supersix evo v Custom Frame

letap73

Just for fun really, a number of people on this forum have bought Cervelo R5 framesets recently, this forum seems to have more die-hard Cannondale fans than any other brand so I assume the Supersix Evo would be the dream frameset. Lastly, the Legend UK guy suggested that a custom and fully built up Legend was going to be available for less than £3000. Given that you have £3000 available the two factory produced framesets above and a custom built frame can be specced with similar quality components (therefore the difference essentially comes down to the frameset) - Which of the options would you choose and why?

Captainlip

madone

BikeSwan

As you can see in my signature . . . I am in no way biased 8)

fevmeister

Cervelo technically brilliant. Way better than any cannondale

fevmeister

BikeSwan wrote:

As you can see in my signature . . . I am in no way biased 8)

Me neither

smidsy

I voted Supersix and as you can see it is on my N+1 list.

However as you will also see I have a Basso Astra and I have to say it looks far better.

saprkzz

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

LegendLust

I can't believe people are comparing buying an 'off the peg suit' with the equivalent of a Savile Row suit.

OK the off the peg frames would no doubt be a good ride, but can they really compare with a frame that's been made to measure and custom hand built to the customers exact size and spec?

OK I'm biased as well but a Legend with Chorus 11spd for £3k it's a no brainer.

Plus add the cache of this premium brand and the fact that no bugger else will have one.

napoleond

Legend a Premium brand? How can they be a 'premium brand' if they are unheard of...

Furthermore, I think that unless you are odd sizing full custom is not really required for most people, nice to have but not essential. Plus, depends on the framebuilder's experience. The custom sizing may actually not be the best 'fit' depending on how good the builder is at fitting someone to their bike. I keep seeing custom Enigmas with massive spacer stacks.

It's horses for courses. For 3k for a build I'd be going for canyon. I'm not biased, I have a Cervelo.

If going for a custom build it'd be a premium brand

LegendLust

NapoleonD wrote:

Legend a Premium brand? How can they be a 'premium brand' if they are unheard of...

Furthermore, I think that unless you are odd sizing full custom is not really required for most people, nice to have but not essential. Plus, depends on the framebuilder's experience. The custom sizing may actually not be the best 'fit' depending on how good the builder is at fitting someone to their bike. I keep seeing custom Enigmas with massive spacer stacks.

It's horses for courses. For 3k for a build I'd be going for canyon. I'm not biased, I have a Cervelo.

If going for a custom build it'd be a premium brand

I think you need to re-think your ideas of what a 'premium' brand is.

http://www.wikibranding.net/2008/04/wha ... emium.html

napoleond

LegendLust wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Legend a Premium brand? How can they be a 'premium brand' if they are unheard of...

Furthermore, I think that unless you are odd sizing full custom is not really required for most people, nice to have but not essential. Plus, depends on the framebuilder's experience. The custom sizing may actually not be the best 'fit' depending on how good the builder is at fitting someone to their bike. I keep seeing custom Enigmas with massive spacer stacks.

It's horses for courses. For 3k for a build I'd be going for canyon. I'm not biased, I have a Cervelo.

If going for a custom build it'd be a premium brand

I think you need to re-think your ideas of what a 'premium' brand is.

http://www.wikibranding.net/2008/04/wha ... emium.html

No. I don't. My point being that Legend has no 'brand' in the UK as yet, thus cannot be a premium 'brand'. They may be excellent frames, they look great! But I wouldn't consider them a premium brand. As a consumer, it is the consumer that dictates what a premium brand is.
In my eyes, Titanium wise I would suggest Baum are about up there...
I'm not a believer in buying premium brands per se as I feel that a premium brand is one which I am prepared to pay 'over the odds' (or more than its tangible worth) to have...
Legend may well become a premium brand in my eyes (it is mine that count, to me) when I see some real world reports from UK users...

Having said that, I'd always be prepared to give something like Legend a punt if I had the cash.

greasedscotsman

LegendLust wrote:

OK I'm biased as well but a Legend with Chorus 11spd for £3k it's a no brainer.

Have you seen one yet?

LegendLust wrote:

I'd love to see a Legend in the flesh

viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12888002

napoleond

greasedscotsman wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

OK I'm biased as well but a Legend with Chorus 11spd for £3k it's a no brainer.

Have you seen one yet?

LegendLust wrote:

I'd love to see a Legend in the flesh

viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12888002

:shock:

letap73

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

saprkzz

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

It took months to decide, as there was a few bikes that i really wanted and spending £££'s on a bike i needed to make sure i got it right,

My choice was the Orbea Orca, Cervelo R5, C'dale Supersix, Scott Foil Team and the Look 695 & Bianchi Oltre.

I spent ages looking on the net, reading reviews in mags, looking at pictures, and decided to buy the Cervelo S2. On visiting the shop and speaking with a pro cyclist, he spent an hour going over what I am looking for, how i ride routes & racing etc etc, and advised to go for the R5. I then got to to see the frame in the flesh, and fell in love with it. It definalty is more of a function over looks buy as the R5 is great on climbs and long distance. I can sit in the saddle for hours.
It is a bit plain to look at, it isnt bling like the Look or Orbea.

So really it was down to chatting with this pro in the shop and his recomendation.

clincher3

Honestly a Canyon!! The problem we have in UK market is the lack of knowledge how things are made, a Canyon is built in China for less than $300, stick some half decent grpset and recognizable wheels[ie Mavic] and tag it at £3000, thats more than 70% margins [ explains why they offer a life time warranty].

greasedscotsman

clincher3 wrote:

the bike is handmade

I thought all carbon bikes were hand made?

LegendLust

greasedscotsman wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

OK I'm biased as well but a Legend with Chorus 11spd for £3k it's a no brainer.

Have you seen one yet?

LegendLust wrote:

I'd love to see a Legend in the flesh

viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12888002

No I still haven't seen one yet. But as an owner of a handbuilt made to measure Viner Maxima, built by Marco who owns Legend, then I can vouch for their rode qualities, handling and build quality. From what I hear the Legend finishes are even better than my Viner so that's why I can't wait to see one.

letap73

saprkzz wrote:

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

It took months to decide, as there was a few bikes that i really wanted and spending £££'s on a bike i needed to make sure i got it right,

My choice was the Orbea Orca, Cervelo R5, C'dale Supersix, Scott Foil Team and the Look 695 & Bianchi Oltre.

I spent ages looking on the net, reading reviews in mags, looking at pictures, and decided to buy the Cervelo S2. On visiting the shop and speaking with a pro cyclist, he spent an hour going over what I am looking for, how i ride routes & racing etc etc, and advised to go for the R5. I then got to to see the frame in the flesh, and fell in love with it. It definalty is more of a function over looks buy as the R5 is great on climbs and long distance. I can sit in the saddle for hours.
It is a bit plain to look at, it isnt bling like the Look or Orbea.

So really it was down to chatting with this pro in the shop and his recomendation.

Interesting - I went into a bike shop - which was selling a built up Cervelo R5, Cervelo S5 and a Cannondale Supersix EVO, the sales person recommended the R5 over the S5 as it was more suited to normal riding over undulating terrain, he said that the EVO was much stiffer and had sharper handling but the ride was more harsh - in his opinion the Cervelo was more suited to normal riding.

With regards to Legend, I have read that some of the pros actually ride bikes made by Legend (Marco Bartoletti) however, these custom bikes are decorated in team livery and made to look similar to the other team bikes.

letap73

clincher3 wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Legend a Premium brand? How can they be a 'premium brand' if they are unheard of...

Furthermore, I think that unless you are odd sizing full custom is not really required for most people, nice to have but not essential. Plus, depends on the framebuilder's experience. The custom sizing may actually not be the best 'fit' depending on how good the builder is at fitting someone to their bike. I keep seeing custom Enigmas with massive spacer stacks.

It's horses for courses. For 3k for a build I'd be going for canyon. I'm not biased, I have a Cervelo.

If going for a custom build it'd be a premium brand

Honestly a Canyon!! are you serious! The problem we have in UK market is the lack of knowledge how things are made, a Canyon is frame built in China for less than $300, stuck some half decent grpset and recognizable wheels[ie Mavic] and tag it at £3000, thats more than 70% margins [ explains why you get a life time warranty with it, if it breaks here a new one, Freddy is happy]. also his mate Johnny has one so should he!!

Whilst a Legend [ Luckily enough to own a HT9.5] is custom made, the tubes are made in italy to the higest level, the angles and measures of the frame is made for me, though I am not out of the norm geometry it makes my pedaling almost perfect. the bike is handmade, you know what you can book yourself in and see the factory by yourself.

I suppose each for his own, as I always said, its easier to fool people than proving they have been fooled.
Wake up lads, you buying into marketing companies a product with no Soul .

I would buy a custom frame every time, and yes Legend is a niche brand, you got to see and ride it, promise you wont go back.

Have you ridden a canyon, cervelo or cannondale evo? They all receive rave reviews from the informed as well as the uninformed and put in quite a lot into R&D.

napoleond

clincher3 wrote:

Honestly a Canyon!! are you serious! The problem we have in UK market is the lack of knowledge how things are made, a Canyon is frame built in China for less than $300, stuck some half decent grpset and recognizable wheels[ie Mavic] and tag it at £3000, thats more than 70% margins [ explains why you get a life time warranty with it, if it breaks here a new one, Freddy is happy]. also his mate Johnny has one so should he!!

Whilst a Legend [ Luckily enough to own a HT9.5] is custom made, the tubes are made in italy to the higest level, the angles and measures of the frame is made for me, though I am not out of the norm geometry it makes my pedaling almost perfect. the bike is handmade, you know what you can book yourself in and see the factory by yourself.

I suppose each for his own, as I always said, its easier to fool people than proving they have been fooled.
Wake up lads, you buying into marketing companies a product with no Soul .

I would buy a custom frame every time, and yes Legend is a niche brand, you got to see and ride it, promise you wont go back.

I'm well aware of where a product is made and what goes into it. Just because something is made in Italy doesn't automatically mean its better than the workmanship of something built in china.

For 3k for a full bike, canyon offer about as good a monocoque CF frame as you can get and excellent spec.

If someone is buying a full bike then compared to what's out there they are extremely competitive.

I'd love a custom built frame that was as stiff yet comfortable with the same build on it. However that is going to be a hell of a lot more than 3k.

saprkzz

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

It took months to decide, as there was a few bikes that i really wanted and spending £££'s on a bike i needed to make sure i got it right,

My choice was the Orbea Orca, Cervelo R5, C'dale Supersix, Scott Foil Team and the Look 695 & Bianchi Oltre.

I spent ages looking on the net, reading reviews in mags, looking at pictures, and decided to buy the Cervelo S2. On visiting the shop and speaking with a pro cyclist, he spent an hour going over what I am looking for, how i ride routes & racing etc etc, and advised to go for the R5. I then got to to see the frame in the flesh, and fell in love with it. It definalty is more of a function over looks buy as the R5 is great on climbs and long distance. I can sit in the saddle for hours.
It is a bit plain to look at, it isnt bling like the Look or Orbea.

So really it was down to chatting with this pro in the shop and his recomendation.

Interesting - I went into a bike shop - which was selling a built up Cervelo R5, Cervelo S5 and a Cannondale Supersix EVO, the sales person recommended the R5 over the S5 as it was more suited to normal riding over undulating terrain, he said that the EVO was much stiffer and had sharper handling but the ride was more harsh - in his opinion the Cervelo was more suited to normal riding.

Yeah, sorry I dont think I explained my reason properly, the R5 is an all rounder, for normal riding, where the S2 and others i mentioed are designed for short races etc.. although even saying that, I have friends that have S2's and love them, sit on long distances with ease. I think you just have to buy what you want to buy, your a*se will get used to the saddle!

pippi_langsamer-2

saprkzz wrote:

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

It took months to decide, as there was a few bikes that i really wanted and spending £££'s on a bike i needed to make sure i got it right,

My choice was the Orbea Orca, Cervelo R5, C'dale Supersix, Scott Foil Team and the Look 695 & Bianchi Oltre.

I spent ages looking on the net, reading reviews in mags, looking at pictures, and decided to buy the Cervelo S2. On visiting the shop and speaking with a pro cyclist, he spent an hour going over what I am looking for, how i ride routes & racing etc etc, and advised to go for the R5. I then got to to see the frame in the flesh, and fell in love with it. It definalty is more of a function over looks buy as the R5 is great on climbs and long distance. I can sit in the saddle for hours.
It is a bit plain to look at, it isnt bling like the Look or Orbea.

So really it was down to chatting with this pro in the shop and his recomendation.

Not sure the Orca should even be mentioned alongside these other frame sets! Different (lower)', league completely from the reviews I've read.

I have of course ridden none of he aforementioned frames...

saprkzz

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

letap73 wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

I love the Cannondale, considered the Supersix Evo, but selected for the R5 and have no regrets.

So why select the Cervelo over the Cannondale - it appears you must have ridden both bikes before reaching your decision?

It took months to decide, as there was a few bikes that i really wanted and spending £££'s on a bike i needed to make sure i got it right,

My choice was the Orbea Orca, Cervelo R5, C'dale Supersix, Scott Foil Team and the Look 695 & Bianchi Oltre.

I spent ages looking on the net, reading reviews in mags, looking at pictures, and decided to buy the Cervelo S2. On visiting the shop and speaking with a pro cyclist, he spent an hour going over what I am looking for, how i ride routes & racing etc etc, and advised to go for the R5. I then got to to see the frame in the flesh, and fell in love with it. It definalty is more of a function over looks buy as the R5 is great on climbs and long distance. I can sit in the saddle for hours.
It is a bit plain to look at, it isnt bling like the Look or Orbea.

So really it was down to chatting with this pro in the shop and his recomendation.

Not sure the Orca should even be mentioned alongside these other frame sets! Different (lower)', league completely from the reviews I've read.

I have of course ridden none of he aforementioned frames...

really? I thought they were an amazing bike

--> http://www.epic-cycles.co.uk/Orbea_Orca_Gold.html

letap73

NapoleonD wrote:

Legend a Premium brand? How can they be a 'premium brand' if they are unheard of...

Furthermore, I think that unless you are odd sizing full custom is not really required for most people, nice to have but not essential. Plus, depends on the framebuilder's experience. The custom sizing may actually not be the best 'fit' depending on how good the builder is at fitting someone to their bike. I keep seeing custom Enigmas with massive spacer stacks.

It's horses for courses. For 3k for a build I'd be going for canyon. I'm not biased, I have a Cervelo.

If going for a custom build it'd be a premium brand

You mentionned you were a big fan of the Trigon RQC29 -you could make a great build for that frameset for under £3000?

napoleond

letap73 wrote:

You mentionned you were a big fan of the Trigon RQC29 -you could make a great build for that frameset for under £3000?

Not a fan through experience but from what other people have told me about theirs, including a current pro who reckons his is as good as the Dogma2 team bike he has. They look really good, supposed to ride beautifully. Trigon make carbon frames for Deda and components for FSA, Pro (shimano) and MOst.

You're right, you could get a cracking bike for 3k built aroundone of those.

Legend_UK

If you as a rider need a made to measure frame then riding a stock frame with fixed geometry and design will always be a compromise. From our data over 50% of the customers we see Bio Mechanically require a custom frame. The problem is very few people know how to "Bike Fit" correctly. In essence the bike is made to fit YOU and not you trying to fit on the bike. [What is really shocking is that over 35% are on the wrong size bike, stock or custom!]

There is another dark art, that of the frame design, "Tuning" for want of a better word, tweaking the frame ride as you want it to. Again not many people are left who know how to do this correctly.

The Legend HT 9.5 & 10.5 can have most of their tubes made to order/design, therefore making the frame the pinnacle of what custom is all about. We can make a frame ride just as well for a rider who is 6ft 4" and 100kgs + as we can for an "average" rider

If you are trying to compare two of the best competitors bikes to the Legend, then you should put it up against the HT 10.5, not fair I know, the HT 10.5 is a bit more expensive. But then Legend is not for everyone.

Do not believe everything you read [that goes for everything, especially on the net, 80% of information on here is rubbish] journalists, sales staff etc.. will always have other agendas when it comes to recommending what they wish "us" to buy, more so today than ever before, the world is run by big corporations and we are just the pawns in their game.

You should go and test ride the bikes you have on your wish list, if you can go and see where they are made, who makes them, and the real fun part see how they are made.

clincher3

keep riding

rajMAN

£5K for a frameset! someones havin a laugh.

napoleond

Having ridden on the continent i would say that frame and wheel choice is more important on our crappy roads here in the UK...

napoleond

clincher3 wrote:

I am loving the terms amature sunday rider using, "All Rounder", how many displinces you do!! you can tell its all made up junk by the marketing companies. the sad thing these Garden fence like bikes are all ridden in the UK on flat/ rampy terrain, so stiff and solid and "power transfering",ya all good, come to ride in italy on 20km descend, your Cervelo will serve you well there.

Mass Produced junk in China with massive price tag, are you conned NO!!!, you are clever buyer and dont care about where is it made.

Question: when was the last time any of the big brands[ Shitalized, Cervelo, Cannonball] made new frame design??
hold on, they changed the graphics and S3 is now S5, got it, thank you.
Make a mould and press copy, pack and send to stores, 18yrs old South African VanCyuik at Evans cycles[who raced mountain bikes] tells you its the best bike for you. done.


Keep riding....

Whoah! Someone's got a chip on their shoulder!
My Cervelo is boring to look at but it's great, especially on our sh1tty roads here in the UK. The fact I bought it 2nd hand and it fits me perfectly as per the 'proper bike fit' I've had means it was an absolute bargain compared to a boutique custom build.
People like you make me enjoy my made in china massed produced 'junk' even more
I am an unusual fit (large saddle setback) but it was easily accomplished on a standard frame.

Posted via my mass produced made in china piece of junk smartphone.