Ultimate Ice Commuter

meanredspider

I'd like to build the ultimate ice and snow commuter and I'm trying to refine my requirements

1. I want it to be light
2. Disc brakes (probably hydraulic as they don't freeze)
3. Solid front forks
4. Able to take an ice tyre - 26" or 29"? And something that will work in snow
5. Flat bars are probably ok as it's rarely windy and freezing and, without going Parabox, hydraulics are still limited to MTB brakes. That said, Di2 would do away with frozen shifting issues.

I'm kind of imagining some solid fork, carbon, 29er. Anybody know if such a thing exists? I've seen some "urban" bikes that kinda fit the bill.

Tyres are still not fab. A slicker version of the Ice Spiker Pro would good. Marathon Winters are just so absurdly heavy and nowhere near as good.

First.Aspect

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... s-13-46694

+ studded tyres?

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-surly-krampus-13-46694

+ studded tyres?

Yes - that was one of the bikes that got me thinking about this. I don't quite understand why that particular bike is so (relatively) expensive.

I've been looking around at what I could build. There's this http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR29RA ... race_frame onto which I could fit some carbon forks and some 29er wheels

DrLex

meanredspider wrote:

I'd like to build the ultimate ice and snow commuter and I'm trying to refine my requirements
[...]

"You're the one for me, fatty..."

Probably best for when the land bridge to Greenland reforms and you've snow for 6 months of the year. Not light, but then no fat bike is under 30lbs. Does illustrate the point that for snow, you'll want as wide a tyre as possible for float, so that may limit your frame & fork choice.

Wheelspinner

Build it yourself... I did, minus the ice tyres and Di2 though.



I used a Syncros rigid carbon fork, but DT Swiss also make nice ones.

For a frameset, try Niner. They do a nice rigid carbon fork to match the Air 9 carbon frame. Very tasty.

First.Aspect

meanredspider wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-surly-krampus-13-46694

+ studded tyres?

Yes - that was one of the bikes that got me thinking about this. I don't quite understand why that particular bike is so (relatively) expensive.

I've been looking around at what I could build. There's this http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR29RA ... race_frame onto which I could fit some carbon forks and some 29er wheels

Depends if you are okay with a max 2.3 tyre width.
That's pretty wide, but not snow bike territory I don't think.

UndercoverElephant

I was going to suggest the fatty too. Either that or the Surley Pugsley. If you really want to handle snow, you need to float over it.

meanredspider

Ice capability is far more important than snow TBH. I am interested in fatties though - just not sure whether most of the time I'd be running it with a "narrow" ice tyre.

Really interested in a carbon 29er or maybe a carbon X-bike. The 29er is probably the most sensible and could effectively replace my Cube Reaction Race

UndercoverElephant

45North have just released some real fatty ice tyres, called the Dillinger.

They ain't cheap though.

rolf_f

Why not just get a carbon One One 456 frame (cheap at £400) or a Dirty Harry 29er version (£400) and put a rigid fork on it?

Not sure I'd worry about frozen shifting issues - if it's that cold, surely your freehub is as likely to freeze..... And electric wires won't stop the mechs from freezing either.

meanredspider wrote:

Marathon Winters are just so absurdly heavy and nowhere near as good.

That statement can be pretty much applied to any Marathon variant and the alternative options!

meanredspider

Rolf F wrote:

Why not just get a carbon One One 456 frame (cheap at £400) or a Dirty Harry 29er version (£400) and put a rigid fork on it?

Not sure I'd worry about frozen shifting issues - if it's that cold, surely your freehub is as likely to freeze..... And electric wires won't stop the mechs from freezing either.

meanredspider wrote:

Marathon Winters are just so absurdly heavy and nowhere near as good.

That statement can be pretty much applied to any Marathon variant and the alternative options!

Never had a freehub freeze but had cables (and it does tend to be the cables rather than the mechs) freeze lots at below -5C

meanredspider

Where's the Dirty Harry at £400? It's £499 on the On-One site

rolf_f

meanredspider wrote:

Where's the Dirty Harry at £400? It's £499 on the On-One site

Sorry, bonehead typo on my part - I only mentioned the distinct price because I knew it was £100 more than the 456 but I daresay my fingers wanted you to have a bargain!

Still a decent price for a plastic MTB frame. I'd go 26 anyway unless you have a 26 inch MTB already.

meanredspider

Cool - no worries. Yup, have the Cube which is an ali 26". An option is just to stick some rigid forks on the Cube to try out the principle. The rigid forks would work on a 29er frame.

Another compromise would be to build a cross bike. I have an entire spare finishing kit (which almost obliges me from an N+1 perspective)

JamesB5446

Genesis Fortitude with spikey tyres?
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mou ... -adventure

meanredspider

JamesB5446 wrote:

Genesis Fortitude with spikey tyres?
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mou ... -adventure

Interesting - can't find a weight for it though. Alfine 11 is interesting too - just so expensive.

ETA - it was -5C this morning and we're still only flirting with the beginnings of winter proper.

DrLex

meanredspider wrote:

[...] Alfine 11 is interesting too - just so expensive.
[...]

Electronic version due soon - possibly even more interesting?

SimonAH

Ooo, I do love fatbikes (nearly pulled the trigger on a Pugsley last year - glad I didn't as they seem to be getting so much better now).

Oddly I started an an ice bike build this weekend - but in an entirely different direction. I've taken an old steel road frame, ground off every vestige of lug and removed the rear bridge and the propstand bracket to provide loads of snow clearance. Going to run it low ratio brakeless fixed on the fattest spikers I can fit in there on 700C (should easily clear 35mm).

You will note that this is purely a shits and giggles project BTW.

UndercoverElephant

meanredspider wrote:

JamesB5446 wrote:

Genesis Fortitude with spikey tyres?
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mou ... -adventure

Interesting - can't find a weight for it though. Alfine 11 is interesting too - just so expensive.

ETA - it was -5C this morning and we're still only flirting with the beginnings of winter proper.

I happen to know a guy who has a spare alfine 11-speed hub, he's awful at putting things on eBay, so I'm sure he'd be open to offers.

However, you know the correct answer is:

meanredspider

DrLex wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

[...] Alfine 11 is interesting too - just so expensive.
[...]

Electronic version due soon - possibly even more interesting?

Oooooh

SimonAH wrote:

I've taken an old steel road frame, ground off every vestige of lug and removed the rear bridge and the propstand bracket to provide loads of snow clearance. Going to run it low ratio brakeless fixed on the fattest spikers I can fit in there on 700C (should easily clear 35mm).
.

Yup - I can't make my mind up with snow. There's a depth to which it's better to have a narrow tyre and then a depth above which a very fat tyre is best. I've never found Ice Spiker Pros to be great as they don't have brilliant traction in snow. Many people (Puffer veterans, mostly) reckon a good mud tyre is better.

JamesB5446

If anyone has the book Cyclepedia (a good bike porn read) they will have seen this before.

jimmypippa

meanredspider wrote:

JamesB5446 wrote:

Genesis Fortitude with spikey tyres?
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mou ... -adventure

Interesting - can't find a weight for it though. Alfine 11 is interesting too - just so expensive.

ETA - it was -5C this morning and we're still only flirting with the beginnings of winter proper.

A colleague has one of those with Schwalbe Big Apples. Looks pretty rugged.

MichaelW

My ice and snow bike is my everyday bike with DIY studded 26" knobblies.
It is a Dahon Cadenza 8 with Alfine 8, Shimano cable discs Mary bars and everyday commuting rack and mudguards. When things get slushy, you may want some protection.
The Alfine needs and oil dip to function below -10C, otherwise you are stuck in the gear you leave it in, until friction warms the grease up (20 mins riding).
Disc brake cables may be vulnerable to freezup if they point up at the end. This may happen if you use the useful chainstay disc position (which is free of rack interference).

Some people run a Gates carbon drive in cold conditions but they can pick up sticker slush.

JamesB5446

Is the plastic that belt drives are made from susceptible to cracking at low temps?

meanredspider

JamesB5446 wrote:

Is the plastic that belt drives are made from susceptible to cracking at low temps?

Not sure but I bet they get very stiff

gtvlusso

Surly 1 x 1 fatbike:

I have used the bike for SS MTB racing - 50 milers over the Black Mountains and on the local singletrack with junior mounted up on the top tube and the dog racing ahead! And I have commuted in the snow with it - pretty solid and not too sketchy to ride.

33 x 16 Single speed - no iced up mechs/cables - The frame has track fork ends.
Steel frame, rigid fork
Massive clearance for both 16" and 29" wheels (with the brake bosses removed a 3.0" tyre fits on a 26" wheel)
I use hydraulic Avid Juicy 5 with 203mm disks, but these could easily be swapped for cable operated disks.
I use 2.3 Panaracer tyres on Mavic Crossride 26" wheels.
Fitted with Thomson hardware - the toughest stuff, just in case I bin it.

Surly frame sizing is a bit odd, mine is 17" and I am 5ft 11" tall.

Google search for images of "surly 1 x 1". You will see them in all sorts of weird and wonderful combos - very versatile frame, some are even fitted out with gears, 29ers and drops! There is also a great thread on how to convert them to a belt drive: http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/1x1-belt-drive-560950.html

meanredspider

Cool - will take a look

gtvlusso wrote:

I use hydraulic Avid Juicy 5 with 203mm disks

I thought those disks looked like dinner plates...

gtvlusso

meanredspider wrote:

Cool - will take a look

gtvlusso wrote:

I use hydraulic Avid Juicy 5 with 203mm disks

I thought those disks looked like dinner plates...

Overkill TBH, but with junior onboard I am glad of the extra 'feel' before lock up.

There are some 1 x 1's with hub gears and some with derailleurs mounted, there must be a clip you can buy for the track fork end.....I used an angle grinder and a dremel to remove the brake bosses and the rack braze-ons. The bike needs a respray, but I will powdercoat it next year.

**Planet X chain tensioners fit the surly 1 x 1 dropout perfectly too - much cheaper than the surly chain tensioners.

Bordersroadie

meanredspider wrote:

had cables (and it does tend to be the cables rather than the mechs) freeze lots at below -5C

This, apart from road traction, seems to be the main problem to overcome for subzero commuting. Maybe I was lucky but I used my (V-brake equipped) ice bike last year down to minus 10 without freezing issues.

My ice bike is a hardtail MTB with rigid (Carbon Cycles) fork, SKS guards (because it's often icy roads in the morning and wet roads in the evening) and Marathon Winters. Just 10.5kg with skinny slicks, so pretty light, but those Marathon Winters add nearly a kilo and a half!

Having the 'guards probably helps keep water out of the cable casings and storing it in a cold garage means there isn't a major condensation issue inside the cable housings which would occur if I stored the bike in a warm house straight out of the freezing cold.

Are there cable systems that have a full-length fully enclosed (and effectively sealed) cable for each brake and would this solve the frozen cable problem?

asprilla

I use Gore sealed cables on my bikes. I think they call it Professional Cable System or similar. Not cheap but I've never had any issues with them.

UndercoverElephant

Only freezing problem I've experienced was the Shimano freewheel on the Day One, the pawls just stopped engaging one morning, and it was only -14 at the time!

Cue a 6 mile trudge in 18" of snow to the nearest bike shop where I bought a fixed cog, fitted it there and then and managed to complete my journey.