'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

bluedoggy

Was lit up like a Christmas tree on the way home from Bath to Frome and was clipped by a van. Luckely it just brushed my clothing but a few centimeters more i recon it would of knocked me off. It really freaked me out and knocked my confidence to say the least. I've had a few close calls where huge lorries are very close to me in recent months too. I'm coming to the conclusion it's not IF i get knocked off but WHEN

Captainlip

did they stop? im worried they will hit and run.

StorckSpeed

Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.

bluedoggy

Captainlip wrote:

did they stop? im worried they will hit and run.

No, the git just kept on going.

bluedoggy

StorckSpeed wrote:

Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.

I won't stop the sport, far from it. Just a little setback.
What concerns me more is not actually being clipped off the bike with a wing mirror, its the bit afterwards when a car or bus is behind and runs me over me in the road, and THAT does the damage to me.

diy

hit and run has always been my biggest fear on bike and motorbike. Sadly its human nature to run. it takes a brave person to stop when you have knocked someone down and injured them.

more rational, normal people will run than you think.

peat

I have recently started on the road after years on MTB's.

I have to say, 8 rides into my tenure and i have had 3 moments that have made me go 'woah!'

I would say that statistically, it's the same as riding an MTB, but the difference is that off-road, 9 times out of 10, its my own fault (too fast, too little talent) whereas on the roadie it has been because of berks in cars & vans ("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").

That doesn't sit too well with me, and i too was thinking its a matter of 'when' over 'if'.

diy

There is a section on my road route where I am able to pull 35+mph. It is solid white lines. Every car will overtake me Every car will cross the white line to do it. I'd actually prefer them to give me plenty of space and break the law than squeeze by inside the line.

ddraver

Out of interest diy, is it a 30mph limit too?

diy

its a 50mph limit.

Captainlip

why not fit a nice glaring light on the right hand drop bar, may make the pass wider.

rdt

Bluedoggy wrote:

Was lit up like a Christmas tree on the way home from Bath to Frome and was clipped by a van. Luckely it just brushed my clothing but a few centimeters more i recon it would have knocked me off. It really freaked me out and knocked my confidence to say the least. I've had a few close calls where huge lorries are very close to me in recent months too. I'm coming to the conclusion it's not IF i get knocked off but WHEN

Do all the sensible stuff with making yourself visible and positioning yourself sensibly (assertively when required, to help drivers do the right thing). Plus, get some legal cover, e.g. through CTC or British Cycling membership, so you have some lawyers batting for you if you do get taken out and have to go after someone through the courts.

lotus49

StorckSpeed wrote:

Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.

I recommend you read Cyclecraft if you haven't already done. It recommends that you move into the middle of the lane ie into the path of traffic in lots of situations (eg before left hand turns, at traffic islands etc) precisely to ensure that following drivers have to overtake properly ie only when it is safe for them to pull onto the opposite side of the road.

It is possible to get 6 hours free tuition on road cycling (based on Cyclecraft) as well. If you're interested PM me and I'll dig out the details.

Ride hard

Sorry to hear that Bluedoggy. It's every man/woman for themselves out there unfortantely.

I've been rocking light equivalent to the surface of the sun in the past and still get idiots pulling out on me, cutting me up etc even though I'm doing 25+ mph and easily keeping pace with them in a 30mph zone. @Peat said it perfectly cars/vans/buses etc must think its a competition ("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").

Just plan dumb.

Interestingly, as its winter and we're all probably commuting in the dark to and from work I've found that the strobe (imagine an 80's rave/epiletic fit inducing fast flashing light and you've got the picture) mode on my light make cars in front take note - and low and behold - even pull over/move out slightly (depending on whether I'm on the inside or outside). I really hate doing it as the light is very annoying, but after too may close calls (and one serious coming together) its the best way to get drivers, pedestrians etc attention. I only ever put it on that mode when I get to a built up area though with lots of traffic to be considerate to other road users.

BTW people, I'm sure you already know, but kerb hugging is not the way forward. I'm always two or three feet away from the kerb, and assuming I'm a larger vehicle when approaching junctions to leave no room for error or maneouvre from Mr or Mrs impatient behind.

jonomc4

diy wrote:

hit and run has always been my biggest fear on bike and motorbike. Sadly its human nature to run. it takes a brave person to stop when you have knocked someone down and injured them.

more rational, normal people will run than you think.

I was following a car into Sainsbury car park - driven slowly by some dodery old man - it was an S reg Merc in immaculate condition. As he pulled into the parking bay he obviously hit the accelerator rather than the brake and smashed into two cars opposite him - I parked up and watched him - reverse his car and move it to another part of the car park - he then got out all smartly dressed and walked off to the supermarket in a round about route.

Having had my cars scrapped by areh0les in that car park far too many times - I took his reg and the reg of the car and the two cars hit and then offered up my name and phone number and habnded it into customer services. Eventually on my way out I saw some old woman who had been hit talking to a person from the shop - I went over and gave my details again and went.

Apparently the guy came back and denied the crash despite the front of his car being all screwed up. He even refused to give his insurance details - they then explained they had the name and contact details for an independant witness - he was still denying it as he drove off.

Needless to say his insurance company was contacted by the old womans company and he now has a bill - I have given details - I hope the dishonest old sh1t gets points for leaving the scene of an accident along with the bill!

diy

Very bright lights reduce contrast and strobe lights disorientate, both impact a persons ability to judge speed and distance. So probably worth reconsidering

When I used to teach advanced motorcyclists I road a full instructor spec Honda pan euro with high vis paint job and instructor all over it and still people would pull out in front. You cannot see someone if you are not looking for them. There is a limit to effects of high vis.

IMO - its most important to have lights/reflectors attached to moving parts as this catches the edge of the eye which is tuned to movement.

mike6

StorckSpeed wrote:

Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.

With you all the way. If you ride in, or close to the gutter, it seems to invite vehicles to squeeze past when it is not really an option.
If you ride in the nearside wheel track you are effectively "part of the traffic" and vehicles have to make room if they wish to overtake. So they seem to take more notice.

FSR_XC

Soemthing to cover you for 'when' it happens?

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/roadhawk-ride.html

DevonClimber

diy wrote:

hit and run has always been my biggest fear on bike and motorbike. Sadly its human nature to run. it takes a brave person to stop when you have knocked someone down and injured them.

more rational, normal people will run than you think.

With respect, I disagree.
It is my experience from being hit by a vehicle and working as a nurse that suggests otherwise. In my case the lorry driver pulled over to check and help me, on top of that, I have worked in A & E and Orthopedic wards, my experience with patients involved in RTA's is that the 3rd party has usually stopped and assisted where possible, even if at fault. Only ever had one hit and run.
Not a scientific study I know, but as a species we are quite good to each other on the whole, despite what the media may portray.

TakeTurns

I've been clipped too, it was while going uphill. The road narrowed for a few meters, however the car behind still decided to overtake and clipped my handlebar with his mirror. I yelled (sudden shock) but he didn't stop. I tried to catch up but failed miserably. I set a PB on the hill though.

bluedoggy

diy wrote:

Very bright lights reduce contrast and strobe lights disorientate, both impact a persons ability to judge speed and distance. So probably worth reconsidering

When I used to teach advanced motorcyclists I road a full instructor spec Honda pan euro with high vis paint job and instructor all over it and still people would pull out in front. You cannot see someone if you are not looking for them. There is a limit to effects of high vis.

IMO - its most important to have lights/reflectors attached to moving parts as this catches the edge of the eye which is tuned to movement.

What do mean that very bright lights reduce contrast? Is that to on coming traffic?
I would of thought very bright lights in front would create very strong contrast of me to the traffic behind me??

Ber Nard

Peat wrote:

("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").

A few weeks ago someone crossed a double solid white line at the brow of a hill only to find a fire engine with lights and sirens blazing coming the other way.

Just tonight a car had to brake hard enough to lock the wheels it took them so long to realise they weren't going to get past me before the give way at a cross roads. I'd already positioned myself to turn right at the junction when they started their overtake.

Rob

DavidJB

Just a note about moving to the middle of the road before a traffic island. I have two near my house where people constantly almost crash into them / me.

Listen to engine revs, you can tell if they are going to slow down and adjust accordingly. Also I do a half turning signal if there is a car relatively close before I move out into the middle of the road...otherwise people just go further and further right then swerve in???! I find if you hand signal they generally slow and sit behind you.

If you just move out in to the middle of the road without signalling your intention and they have committed to overtake then you're going to get smashed up.

Also when you signal and you hear the revs fly up you know they're generally a dick so can slow your speed to let them pass. Yes, you've conceded the road where you shouldn't have had to, however, you are safe and alive. No point being right and dead.

DavidJB

A further general couple of saftey points I've learned over the years are

Always position yourself just under arms width from the kerb, but don't be a dick about it and hog the road.

Listen to car engines, you can tell a lot by the noise a car is making. If you hear a it revving like a bitch prepare yourself and move into the kerb a little just before it passes because its more than likely you'll get buzzed. By having the correct road positioning previously you allow yourself room to move in if you feel unsafe. After a while you can also tell when I car is coming close to you based on the position of the engine behind you...the ears are amazing tools and you need to use them...NEVER ride with an mp3 player.

ALWAYS make eye contact with drivers at junctions and roundabouts. You'll be amazed that you can see when people are a) not looking or b) looking right through you and take additional measures to stop. It also gives that human connection so they are less likely to be idiots.

If there's not enough room for a car to safely pass you ride in the middle of the road. They might get pissed off but you're not face planting the kerb...if in doubt make it so it's impossible for them to pass. Again don't be a dick about it the last thing cyclists need is a more 'militant' image.

Generally ride in a safe but considerate manner and treat other road users how you'd like to be treated. Don't RLJ, don't jump off an on of pavements. All this being said your safety is of paramount concern to you so do whatever you feel you need to do to protect yourself.

GBR1

Peat wrote:

I have recently started on the road after years on MTB's.

I have to say, 8 rides into my tenure and i have had 3 moments that have made me go 'woah!'

I would say that statistically, it's the same as riding an MTB, but the difference is that off-road, 9 times out of 10, its my own fault (too fast, too little talent) whereas on the roadie it has been because of berks in cars & vans ("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").

That doesn't sit too well with me, and i too was thinking its a matter of 'when' over 'if'.

This has been my situation for years, on the MTB if I crash its more than likely my fault. I only started riding on the road once I moved out of town, I am lucky and only ride on quiet (ish) roads, still had a few moments though!!

GBR1

DavidJB wrote:

Listen to engine revs,

All good till you get someone with a hybrid car, I never ride with earphones but man are these hard to hear coming up on you!

ddraver

diy wrote:

its a 50mph limit.

Hairy muff...

diy

Bluedoggy wrote:

What do mean that very bright lights reduce contrast? Is that to on coming traffic?
I would have thought very bright lights in front would create very strong contrast of me to the traffic behind me??

Yes bright light reduce the ability of oncoming traffic to judge your speed and distance

Headhuunter

lotus49 wrote:

StorckSpeed wrote:

Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.

I recommend you read Cyclecraft if you haven't already done. It recommends that you move into the middle of the lane ie into the path of traffic in lots of situations (eg before left hand turns, at traffic islands etc) precisely to ensure that following drivers have to overtake properly ie only when it is safe for them to pull onto the opposite side of the road.

It is possible to get 6 hours free tuition on road cycling (based on Cyclecraft) as well. If you're interested PM me and I'll dig out the details.

Unfortunately IME if you ride further out in the road you just get a lot more close shaves, it doesn't discourage them from passing, drivers will still try to pass you but they will cut very close to you in their desperation to get past. I haven't actually been clipped by a close passing vehicle yet but a couple of times it's been VERY close, if I'd made a minor deviation from my line, I would've been clipped

kingrollo

im slowly coming back to cycling after 18 months out. Of course I have lost a bit road sense - but driving standards seem to have got worse. I blame the turning off of the speed cameras

diy

Speed cameras just make people look at their speedos, just as artificially low limits stop drivers actually looking at the road and conditions to judge correct speed. If you want people to slow down for 50 yds and then drive faster, develop a hatred for police, clog the criminal justice system, lose pride in their driving skills and think that driving safely is all about driving slowly, then feel free to start a campaign. Personally I think robocop did far more harm than good.